51m0n Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 19 hours ago, Hellzero said: Music is all about dynamic, no ? So no need for a compressor as it's a dynamic killer. But I think we'll start an endless game here... And BC is not an audiophile forum, fortunately. Ah, well now thats is in fact a very ill informed. You can use a compressor to crush dynamics, it doesn't have to. It can be a transient shaper, a tone changer or sustain enhancer. It entirely depends upon what you need it to do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 17 hours ago, pete.young said: !!!!!!!!!! Who are you, and what have you done with the real 51m0n? I drugged him and left him in the cover of his Big Twin 2, which I sewed up. Mwahahahahahahaaaaaaaahhhhh!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 16 hours ago, Al Krow said: Aha! So this is what one of Satan's gonads looks like? Yep, its fine - if you haven't got a clue what you are doing. If you know what you are doing its just going to stop you doing what you want. Simples. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Just now, 51m0n said: Yep, its fine - if you haven't got a clue what you are doing. If you know what you are doing its just going to stop you doing what you want. Simples. When it comes to compression "not having a clue what I'm doing" sums me up very well! When it comes to knowing that my M6 is going to comfortably hold its own against your Tricky Bullsh*t Bullhead, now that's a completely different matter 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickJ Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 16 hours ago, Al Krow said: Aha! So this is what one of Satan's gonads looks like? Ah the spectracomp - the gateway drug into compression (at least for me). I had one for about six months flipping between a few presets, loved it but decided to actually learn about compression and purchased the Hyper Luminal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, PJ-Bassist said: Ah the spectracomp - the gateway drug into compression (at least for me). I had one for about six months flipping between a few presets, loved it but decided to actually learn about compression and purchased the Hyper Luminal. That's a very good analogy - been described that way to me as the way into compression. Being a numpty, I didn't have any real liking (or even disliking come to think of it) for my Cali 76CB, Aggie TLC, MXR M87, Zoom compression sims and most recently my Keeley Bassist which is an awesome limiter, but I much prefer the TC Spectracomp as a compressor. How did I know that any thread with me and @51m0n would eventually degenerate into a discussion on compression. Lol! Night and day I guess...😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 40 minutes ago, Al Krow said: When it comes to knowing that my M6 is going to comfortably hold its own against your Tricky Bullsh*t Bullhead, now that's a completely different matter 😀 Yeah yeah right, ok sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, 51m0n said: Yeah yeah right, ok sure The only (two) BC'ers who have ever bought a TF Bullhead are either selling them or have sold them. There's a bunch of us who still have and love our M6s. Quad erat demonstrandum 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 On 27/02/2019 at 11:47, 51m0n said: Now, fo rthe first time in 25 years of playing I am considering not using a compressor because I might not need one all the time to get the sound I want and the playing feel I want. First time. Ever. Its not that the Trickfish compresses (at all) its just such a truly phenominal tone that I may well get away without the compressor at last. 1 hour ago, 51m0n said: Ah, well now thats is in fact a very ill informed. You can use a compressor to crush dynamics, it doesn't have to. It can be a transient shaper, a tone changer or sustain enhancer. It entirely depends upon what you need it to do.... I hate compressors for what they do and you love them for what they do, so it's going to be a sterile debate. And if I'm ill informed, which is not the case as I studied their purpose and use (and especially abuse), I can tell you you're mixing an expander and a compressor in the way you explain how they act... That said you wrote that you would be "considering not using a compressor," meaning that for once in your life you've heard your bass through a non compressing/expanding system and realised what dynamics really means, intrinsically linked to headroom (and power). Ask Anthony JACKSON why he's using tons of power. Go to a classical concert, or listen to a church organ live, and you'll understand what dynamics is and the unnecessary sound quality destroying power of an expander/compressor even tube multiband type (which are the "best" ones, because of the natural compression of tubes, that I studied too). If you know your history, you are aware that the expanders/compressors were created to compensate the poor dynamics of broadcasting and then vinyl recording, which by the way, is the worst analogical (organic or natural) reproduction as the bass must be compressed and the highs expanded to be engraved into the groove : that's what for RIAA and other standards were developed. Funny that you always read the exact opposite... Says the old 53 years old bean, still not deaf at all today thanks to the straight to the amp plugging. And if you want to know, my hearing is also still very very good as my yearly tests proove it (I take great care of my ears). Have fun with your new amp, which is the most important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Al Krow said: The only (two) BC'ers who have ever bought a TF Bullhead are either selling them or have sold them. There's a bunch of us who still have and love our M6s. Quad erat demonstrandum Ha! OK, that must mean that the lead sled is better? I have had major surgery on one knee, and am due for plenty more - there is no way at all in that I am going back to an amp that heavy my friend, it instantly fails a far more important requirement than anything else, it has to be schleppable by me with ease Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Hellzero said: I hate compressors for what they do and you love them for what they do, so it's going to be a sterile debate. And if I'm ill informed, which is not the case as I studied their purpose and use (and especially abuse), I can tell you you're mixing an expander and a compressor in the way you explain how they act... That said you wrote that you would be "considering not using a compressor," meaning that for once in your life you've heard your bass through a non compressing/expanding system and realised what dynamics really means, intrinsically linked to headroom (and power). Ask Anthony JACKSON why he's using tons of power. Go to a classical concert, or listen to a church organ live, and you'll understand what dynamics is and the unnecessary sound quality destroying power of an expander/compressor even tube multiband type (which are the "best" ones, because of the natural compression of tubes, that I studied too). If you know your history, you are aware that the expanders/compressors were created to compensate the poor dynamics of broadcasting and then vinyl recording, which by the way, is the worst analogical (organic or natural) reproduction as the bass must be compressed and the highs expanded to be engraved into the groove : that's what for RIAA and other standards were developed. Funny that you always read the exact opposite... Says the old 53 years old bean, still not deaf at all today thanks to the straight to the amp plugging. And if you want to know, my hearing is also still very very good as my yearly tests proove it (I take great care of my ears). Have fun with your new amp, which is the most important. I neither love not hate compressors, they are a tool, used in the right way in the right place they have a huge amount to add that is not just about dynamic control. If you dont know how a compressor can be able to to do all the things I mentioned, then you are less well informed than me dude , an expander does not do what a compressor does, it is a different tool entirely. Expanders behave completely differently from parallel compression, which is different from multiband compression, which is different from parallel multibrand compression, then there is dynamic EQ of course, but lets just not go there. Tube type compression ( I assume here you mean vari-mu) is not necessarily the 'best' compressor type for a particular scenario, there are times when you need a FET (its way faster than a Vari-mu typically) or an optical (its 'squishier', has very unique attack/release curves) or even a good VCA. Its all about what you need to do, there are even places where nothing short of a digital compressor will be capable of doing what you need. Its not enough to study their use, you need to actually learn by using them what works were and when and what helps and what doesn't. You can read how to be a racing driver from books that detail everything about the subject, doesn't mean you can drive a car at all. I actually go to about 4 to 6 classical concerts a year on average, at least one a year will include a church organ as well as a full orchestra. Its lovely, its live, it has nothing to do with compressors (you do know your ears are the highest functioning compressor/limiter in the world right?). In fact the loudest part of any of these are the percussion pieces, SPL far far louder than the church organ, routinely (8 snare drums and 3 tom players and a couple of bass drums will do that). Interestingly at the volumes these guys routinely reach you can feel your ears compressing everything, its awesome, and fascinating, and, well, compression As for knowing my history, yep absolutely, more than you would believe, the compression on the Beatles vinyl releases completely blew the Motown mastering engineers minds, their singles were so loud. Don't get me started on how utterly stinky poo vinyl is as a medium, either. There we agree completely. I am considering not using a compressor with this head because I think it sounds fantastic (well OK the .5k did, I am yet to actually try the 1k, it could be not worth the money), but until I have actually used it in a scenario with a band I am not ruling out a compressor at all, because that would be daft. Tools are there to be used after all! There are perfectly good reasons to use a compressor, if you know what you are doing. It is not a crutch, it will not destroy dynamics, it will simply help your audience hear you and feel you in the right way. Tube amps are deeply loved, why? The way they distort a signal as they begin to overload quite simply is a form of compression, and, if you know what you are doing, you can dial a very similar thing into a reasonable VCA compressor and have a solid state amp feel like a tube amp, no noticeable compression artifacts at all to hear or feel... Going by your argument every single piece of music released in the last 70+ years sounds terrible, every guitar amp sounds awful, everything in audio and mastering is just terrible, and its all because of compression. Believe that if you want, but I am not going to be convinced Edited February 28, 2019 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 28 minutes ago, 51m0n said: Ha! OK, that must mean that the lead sled is better? I have had major surgery on one knee, and am due for plenty more - there is no way at all in that I am going back to an amp that heavy my friend, it instantly fails a far more important requirement than anything else, it has to be schleppable by me with ease Clearly not appropriate for your knee - I get that, makes complete sense. In fact I'm the same - I much prefer lugging lightweight gear to rehearsals and gigs. But that's not the same as making ballsy claims that a D class amp, even of the quality of a TF, is going to blow away something like a Mesa M6 for sheer tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, Al Krow said: Clearly not appropriate for your knee - I get that, makes complete sense. In fact I'm the same - I much prefer lugging lightweight gear to rehearsals and gigs. But that's not the same as making ballsy claims that a D class amp, even of the quality of a TF, is going to blow away something like a Mesa M6 for sheer tone. Not quite sure I made a ballsy claim that it would blow away an M6, I said that to my ears it blew away a D800 (oh so blew it away though, the D800 sounded strangled in comparison, so did the Glock, it was almost embarrasing) and to my ears it will give an M6 a damn good run for its money and, to my ears, it will almost certainly be a tone I prefer, because I don't like tubey fuzziness - I do like the way tubes compress as you push them a bit though - can't change what floats you boat though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 @51m0n : As it's obvious, you want to have the last word, then I'll let it to you. You are totally right, I know nothing at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickJ Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Hellzero said: @51m0n : As it's obvious, you want to have the last word, then I'll let it to you. You are totally right, I know nothing at all. Hmmm, This is usually how 'discussions' with my wife end. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) @51m0n three TF Bulheads in FS including a 1K for your delectation! I will be interested in what amps the sellers move onto and how they stack up against their TFs, but that’s for another day Edited March 10, 2019 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 Mate doesn't bother me, the Trickfish has landed. 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Do you still use a compressor ? 🤗 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hellzero said: Do you still use a compressor ? 🤗 Not sure yet matey 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 5 hours ago, 51m0n said: Mate doesn't bother me, the Trickfish has landed. 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩 Excellent, congratulations! So did you end up getting a brand new one from BD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Al Krow said: Excellent, congratulations! So did you end up getting a brand new one from BD? Yep, like my core kitvto be new. It's the best chance of it not having been abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, 51m0n said: Yep, like my core kitvto be new. It's the best chance of it not having been abused. I know, BCers are an abusive lot at the best of times aren't they? 😄 What are the EQ mid points on your new bad boy? And does it have heft? (I really don't give a Rat's Tail whether it's good for metal) 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 40/80 333/473 1k/1.8k 4k/8k Well heft is a funny word, because I struggle to know what it means. However through the Big Twin it produces effortless clean volume, absolutely masses of it. There is no lack of push down to the lowest frequencies that my 5 string produces, coupled with all the punch you could ever need. I found a hair of a boost at 80Hz just about all I needed to get a really incredible tone from my Roscoe. The highs and hi mids are really sweet, not at all harsh. Only amp I can remember using where 1KHz is useful pushed or pulled 😆. Biggest difference between this and the .5k other than sheer volume is the .5k starts to overdrive very pleasantly when you bring the master up, this stays very very clean at all volumes I could get it to, the Big Twin just kept dishing out more and more. Lovely 😃 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 Of course until I get it to a rehearsal at least this is all a bit irrelevant 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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