Shuker, ACG or Sei Basses for a custom build?

[thebassist]

Just now, Muzz said:

Oh, heck, that is kinda fundamental... 😕

 

Yeah, I'm a real dummy. I really think that the fourth one is right though. I'm confident that I've nailed it this time.

[PatrickJ]

4 hours ago, thebassist said:

One mistake was having the bass chambered and the other mistake was the pickup positioning.

I placed too much importance on the weight of the instrument and didn't give enough consideration to the impact it'd have on the sound.

The pickup positioning is more an annoyance I suppose.

I live and learn and it was completely my fault

Out of interest

- did you dictate the pickups placement or was it on recommendation of the builder?

- weight will be important to me too.  My Sandberg weighs 3.7kg , so 4kg or under is my target.  Where did you end up weight wise on your build and what was the consequence on tone?

[PatrickJ]

4 hours ago, Muzz said:

Part of the joy of getting that decorative drop top I mentioned earlier was digging through Jon's wood store (with his help and guidance)  and picking the actual block of wood (flamed maple, as it happens) he used for my bass... 🙂

Have you got a picture of the reworked guitar with maple top?

Edited February 11, 2019 by PJ-Bassist

[Merton]

Love Alan’s (ACG) work, and I’m the one currently having a Zoot built so soon I can offer a useful comparison. With the budget you have whichever way you go you’ll have a sublime bass but as @EBS_freak said, going too wild could result in perhaps not the results you were aiming for.

@thebassist has a good point. Alan at ACG has built me three basses so far and is about to start a fourth. The first one was utterly sublime but the second made me realise things I didn’t consider with the first which started to make me wonder... the third was totally off the wall but again I’d learnt what I wanted and needed and the fourth will take everything I’ve learnt from the first three and become my go-to five string I suspect

[thebassist]

1 hour ago, PJ-Bassist said:

Out of interest

- did you dictate the pickups placement or was it on recommendation of the builder?

- weight will be important to me too.  My Sandberg weighs 3.7kg , so 4kg or under is my target.  Where did you end up weight wise on your build and what was the consequence on tone?

The pickup positions were my decision but they’re not ununusal. I just should have had the bridge pickup a little closer to the bridge than I did.

And the chambering means the tone is warmer than I wanted. For a lot of people, this bass would be just fine but I like the jazz bass snap.

[4000]

23 hours ago, Muzz said:

Were the 'mistakes' so fundamental that they needed a whole new bass to get round? Crikey, that's unlucky...

Not really unlucky getting something drastically wrong when ordering a custom build; there are so many variables, unless you really know what you want. For instance it may be a body shape you've never played before that turns out to be uncomfortable. With mine, my first was a 6, simply because I fancied a 6. Over the next few years I came to realise that a 6 really wasn't for me. When I ordered my Rim bass, I'd only played one very briefly. Turned out I had problems with the ergonomics relating to a nerve problem I had (nothing wrong with the bass), so I had to move it on almost immediately. With another build I had the neck made based on an early Warwick Dolphin that I was having a honeymoon period with, in spite of the fact I was used to much slimmer necks with much narrower spacing and a much smaller fingerboard radius. And even though the neck was the same dimensions as the Dolphin, it just didn't feel the same. So I ended up with a neck that didn't really work for me on any level, and it was a through-neck (I don't tend to use bolt-ons), so I moved it on. These things happen.

If you're used to playing, say, Jazzes and you order a custom spec Jazz shape, then you've got much more chance of it working.

What I will say about Sei, is that for me, Martin makes basses that typically feel very slim, comfortable, relatively lightweight and very fast to play, which is my preference. The nearest I'd say are Everson and GB; Paul's Everson's basses are criminally overlooked.
   

[thebassist]

14 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Not really unlucky getting something drastically wrong when ordering a custom build; there are so many variables, unless you really know what you want. For instance it may be a body shape you've never played before that turns out to be uncomfortable. With mine, my first was a 6, simply because I fancied a 6. Over the next few years I came to realise that a 6 really wasn't for me. When I ordered my Rim bass, I'd only played one very briefly. Turned out I had problems with the ergonomics relating to a nerve problem I had (nothing wrong with the bass), so I had to move it on almost immediately. With another build I had the neck made based on an early Warwick Dolphin that I was having a honeymoon period with, in spite of the fact I was used to much slimmer necks with much narrower spacing and a much smaller fingerboard radius. And even though the neck was the same dimensions as the Dolphin, it just didn't feel the same. So I ended up with a neck that didn't really work for me on any level, and it was a through-neck (I don't tend to use bolt-ons), so I moved it on. These things happen.

If you're used to playing, say, Jazzes and you order a custom spec Jazz shape, then you've got much more chance of it working.

What I will say about Sei, is that for me, Martin makes basses that typically feel very slim, comfortable, relatively lightweight and very fast to play, which is my preference. The nearest I'd say are Everson and GB; Paul's Everson's basses are criminally overlooked.
   

This is absolutely the case. I really think that unless you're almost 100% certain with the spec you'd want and you're fussy, it's probably best to avoid a custom altogether.

I do, however, think my fourth attempt is going to be right... well I hope!

[PatrickJ]

2 hours ago, 4000 said:

If you're used to playing, say, Jazzes and you order a custom spec Jazz shape, then you've got much more chance of it working.

That's pretty much me.

[BigRedX]

I own this Sei Flamboyant:

It's actually got an ACG EQ1 pre-amp in it, so it's got a similar sound to an ACG but with the Flamboyant shape which I liked more than the ACG shapes (sorry Alan!)

I've tried a lot of Shukers but although I liked the looks I really haven't liked the feel of any of them.

As others have said, it doesn't matter what we think. What matters is what you like, and whether or not you get on with the luthier. My advice would be don't expect to be able to specify every aspect of your bass, a lot of it should be guided by your choice of luthier helping you to get the instrument you want. My Sei was based on the fact that I liked the shape, wanted a Wal-like fretless sound and wanted my bass to be grey and orange in colour. Martin did the rest.

[Romeo2]

why not buy a bass that already exists, from either of the two preferred luthiers you mentioned? you can hear it, you can hold it, see how it feels, 'this is the one' moment and just buy it ..?

 

i personally don't think I would enjoy the anxiety of 'sh**, what if all this me choosing wood, pickups and hardware produces a bass that has a no feel or tone i enjoy'

 

there, my 2 cents for more doubt with your firstworldproblem ;)

[Soledad]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

I own this Sei Flamboyant:

Good grief - big applause to Martin for that one... stunning !!

 

5 hours ago, thebassist said:

I really think that unless you're almost 100% certain with the spec you'd want and you're fussy, it's probably best to avoid a custom altogether.

Absolutely my view, plus there's the gamble of putting certain woods together in a certain way and not knowing for sure what the result will be. It's a high risk / high reward game I think. But that Sei...  so smart the way the pickups feather into the neck line. He's a bit of an artist.

[BigRedX]

42 minutes ago, Soledad said:

Good grief - big applause to Martin for that one... stunning !!

 

Absolutely my view, plus there's the gamble of putting certain woods together in a certain way and not knowing for sure what the result will be. It's a high risk / high reward game I think. But that Sei...  so smart the way the pickups feather into the neck line. He's a bit of an artist.

Thanks! The fingerboard/pickups/ramp combination was my idea, but Martin was the one who actually made it work.

When I went to collect my bass, While Martin was doing the final set-up I had a quick play on another Sei that had recently been completed. A stunning looking instrument, but it didn't speak to me the way the bass that'd been made specifically for me did. I think the trick is not the get bogged down in the specifics. Think in broad strokes - how do you want it to look, sound and feel and let your chosen luthier fill in the details.

[Muzz]

On 11/02/2019 at 18:11, PJ-Bassist said:

Have you got a picture of the reworked guitar with maple top?

This is all I have right now, but I'll get a better pic shortly.

[PatrickJ]

7 minutes ago, Muzz said:

This is all I have right now, but I'll get a better pic shortly.

Is that a series 2?

Very similar build to what I initially had in mind.

Edited February 12, 2019 by PJ-Bassist

[Muzz]

It's a Horn...Black Walnut body, Flame Maple drop top, maple neck with wenge stringers, birdseye maple board, two EMG split-coil pickups, John East U-Retro EQ. Works for me.... 🙂

Edited February 12, 2019 by Muzz

[Bassislife16]

Alpher.

[Chris2112]

On 08/02/2019 at 22:21, White Cloud said:

 The woodworking/finish/filter pre is staggering with Alan's  instruments (and he under charges imho).

I do love ACG. I find most of their shapes are not really to my taste these days. The first era of ACG designs are the strongest and most cohesive to my eyes, and the passage of time has seen a general to less attractive shapes. I also think that ACG were very competitively priced to start with but are just about market average now. I'd long said that Alan's work deserved to be mentioned alongside the very best in British bass-building, but the days of them being an attractively priced upstart are gone. 

 

Out of Sei and Shuker, I'd go with Sei. I think they are the finest instruments being made in the UK at the moment and their jazz model is stunning.

[Bass Culture]

As others have said, there are quite a few options. I own three of Mike Walsh’s Zoot basses and out of literally dozens I’ve owned over the years - including ACG, Roscoe, Overwater (why no mention for them yet?) and Les Evans customs - they are my favourite.  In that they are the basses that have delivered my personal preferences most completely in one package - but that’s as likely because they are the most recent and I now have a much better idea of what works for me and what doesn’t.  They are also the best value for money.  I couldn’t say they were ‘better’ than the others though, because the concept is almost fatuous between the list of exceptional makers mentioned so far - you’d be happy with any, I’m sure.  I suspect the Sei will be most expensive because of Martin’s circumstances (location, customer base, overheads etc.) but that doesn’t they will be ‘better’.

If this is your first custom spec, one thing I will say is this: it’s almost 100% certain there will be something about the finished instrument you will do differently if you ever commission a second.  Enjoy! 😉

Edited February 13, 2019 by Bass Culture

[skelf]

7 hours ago, Chris2112 said:

I do love ACG. I find most of their shapes are not really to my taste these days. The first era of ACG designs are the strongest and most cohesive to my eyes, and the passage of time has seen a general to less attractive shapes. I also think that ACG were very competitively priced to start with but are just about market average now. I'd long said that Alan's work deserved to be mentioned alongside the very best in British bass-building, but the days of them being an attractively priced upstart are gone. 

 

Out of Sei and Shuker, I'd go with Sei. I think they are the finest instruments being made in the UK at the moment and their jazz model is stunning.

Hi

All the shapes I have ever done are still available. The Recurve and Finn still front and centre have been about from pretty much the start. However I don’t get asked to build most of them very often. What you currently see as the main models Recurve,Finn,Krell, Salace and RetroB are the models people actually order.  ACG has now been about for 14 years so I am no longer in anyway a new upstart.

 

Cheers

 

Alan. 

[PatrickJ]

2 hours ago, skelf said:

Hi

All the shapes I have ever done are still available. The Recurve and Finn still front and centre have been about from pretty much the start. However I don’t get asked to build most of them very often. What you currently see as the main models Recurve,Finn,Krell, Salace and RetroB are the models people actually order.  ACG has now been about for 14 years so I am no longer in anyway a new upstart.

 

Cheers

 

Alan. 

Of the ACG range I thought the Krell looked really interesting.  A bit contemporary for my personal taste but I do appreciate it is a fine  looking instrument, and I loved some top wood designs in the finished examples, particularly the wood choices on this one.

Edited February 13, 2019 by PJ-Bassist

[Muzz]

A couple of better pics...still not great, but I'm no photographer...

[BassApprentice]

Throwing another British builder in to the mix - have you checked out Alpher? The Cobia is quite jazz like and they do a mad range of finishes 

 

http://alpher.co.uk/bass-gallery/

[Bass Culture]

The other thing I'd suggest is concentrating on the fundamentals (for me these are playability and sound, yours may differ) and talk to your chosen luthier about his suggestions for best delivering them.  This might mean you need to be open to considering different woods, perhaps, or maybe pickups or preamps/tone controls.  My earlier custom basses were two pickups, coil tapping/phase reversal, three-band active EQ - the whole shebang - all of which I would carefully play with for all of about half an hour after I got the bass home, before sticking all the controls in a position from which, thereafter, they would never deviate.  Now, my favourite Zoot is passive with the simplest control array possible.  Heaven!

[skelf]

1 hour ago, PJ-Bassist said:

Of the ACG range I thought the Krell looked really interesting.  A bit contemporary for my personal taste but I do appreciate it is a fine  looking instrument, and I loved some top wood designs in the finished examples, particularly the wood choices on this one.

Yes I am more drawn to modern designs as a builder but accept that does not suit everyone. It is the reason I worked with Colin Cunningham on the RetroB which is the most traditional bass I do. It was based on his Jazz bass but still had to look like something I would do since I don’t want to build copies. The remit from Colin with that bass was for it to be not noticed. Basically to get by as Fender enough not be commented on but different enough to be an ACG. From that perspective it has worked well. 

 

Cheers

 

Alan

[ead]

I think some on the forum know I have an ACG or two so with that in mind, and having removed my tinted glasses, I would challenge the comment above about pricing of ACG basses.  I do look around to see what other builders are offering and still find Alan's basses to be very competitively priced, with the acknowledgement that it's almost impossible to compare apples with apples in the space.

I must drive Alan nuts as I very firmly in the traditional shapes fold and am a particular fan of the J Type and RetroB.  I did dip a toe in slightly choppier waters recently and bought a Border Reiver S/S but have now scuttled back into the relative safety of a new Finn that I suspect will become my favourite fretted ACG in short order 🙂 

As always YMMV