Shuker, ACG or Sei Basses for a custom build?

[PatrickJ]

1 minute ago, Muzz said:

That's the bunny - American Black Walnut: not black at all...and it doesn't look much like walnut, either... 🙂

Jon suggested it to me at one point for some contrast to flamed maple but I was worried about the weight.

[Owen]

I had a black walnut body made once. I was hugely surprised when it arrived and was not what I was expecting. You live and learn. 

[Muzz]

Luckily I'd seen it first (actually in mid-build; I took a stock build bass for the aforementioned time constraints), but I couldn't have told you what wood it was. The weight is good - about 8lbs 6oz)

[ProfJames]

You could always get Jon Shuker to make you a headless carbon...................................

[ProfJames]

[eude]

23 minutes ago, owen said:

I had a black walnut body made once. I was hugely surprised when it arrived and was not what I was expecting. You live and learn. 

I had a Black Walnut bodied Shuker Jazz and I just never got on with the sound of it, my mistake, not Jon's. It wasn't as aggressive as I had hoped, Ash and Limba seem to be more my bag.
It was a wonderful bass, but I had to move it on sadly.

Eude

[ProfJames]

ALso have a Shuker RD style.................can't get photo to load...........Shuker are such top quality

Edited May 17, 2021 by ProfJames

[Bigwan]

1 hour ago, BassApprentice said:

This for me is the hurdle, I would love an ACG/Sei/Shuker but I would have no idea where to even begin. I don't think I've spent enough time with enough basses to even know what I would want them to make. 

Just another excuse to try and buy more things 😂

All I can tell you is how I started with ACG - buy a used one to get a feel for what you think you might want. I bought an ACG Graft Recurve 5 from @Black Coffee of this parish... Actually I loaned it from him for a few days with a view to buying it... And transferred him money pretty much the same day I was that impressed with it. (I don't delieve in "signs" so much but on my way home from picking up the bass there was a pretty clear one as I was driving behind a Jeep Cherokee with an odd numberplate "xxxx ACG" - TRULLY BIZARRE!)

Anyway, living with that ACG for a while taught me what I like about what Alan does.

Zero radius fretboard - love it

Neck shape - love it

Scale length (33") - could be longer. I was used to playing Lakland 5s at the time so matched their 35" scale with my custom

String spacing - OK @18mm but could be wider, went with 19mm but adjustable. 

Pickups (singles with an odd placement) - sounded great, especially the neck pickup but wanted twin P pickups and fatter enclosures. Ended up with a mix of Alnico P at the neck and reverse Ceramic P at the bridge. Alan was great with suggestions in this regard. 

4 way selector switch - nope I had that on a Dingwall and didn't like it. Went with the all dancing 5K pre - this is the only thing I'd change if I was going again, and only because I've now owned a bass with the ACG version of the East Retro-P! 

Recurve body shape - yup, like it a lot. 

As for wood choices, I had my own ideas about what I wanted and Alan didn't dissuade me. I also wanted my pickups in a non-standard position - front pickup in normal P position, but bridge pickup as close as possible to the neck pickup. Worked well for me and the resultant bass is a dream! 

I've had 4 ACGs now, the original Graft Recurve 5 (gone but served its purpose well), my custom 5 Recurve (I doubt I'll ever sell this one), a custom 4 Recurve (similar spec to my 5 string, regretfully sold), the 4 string Finn "cricket club" bass (sold, regretted, bought back). Not a bad bass among them to be honest!

Edited May 17, 2021 by Bigwan

[Merton]

13 minutes ago, Bigwan said:

All I can tell you is how I started with ACG - buy a used one to get a feel for what you think you might want. I bought an ACG Graft Recurve 5 from @Black Coffee of this parish... Actually I loaned it from him for a few days with a view to buying it... And transferred him money pretty much the same day I was that impressed with it. (I don't delieve in "signs" so much but on my way home from picking up the bass there was a pretty clear one as I was driving behind a Jeep Cherokee with an odd numberplate "xxxx ACG" - TRULLY BIZARRE!)

Anyway, living with that ACG for a while taught me what I like about what Alan does.

Zero radius fretboard - love it

Neck shape - love it

Scale length (33") - could be longer. I was used to playing Lakland 5s at the time so matched their 35" scale with my custom

String spacing - OK @18mm but could be wider, went with 19mm but adjustable. 

Pickups (singles with an odd placement) - sounded great, especially the neck pickup but wanted twin P pickups and fatter enclosures. Ended up with a mix of Alnico P at the neck and reverse Ceramic P at the bridge. Alan was great with suggestions in this regard. 

4 way selector switch - nope I had that on a Dingwall and didn't like it. Went with the all dancing 5K pre - this is the only thing I'd change if I was going again, and only because I've now owned a bass with the ACG version of the East Retro-P! 

Recurve body shape - yup, like it a lot. 

As for wood choices, I had my own ideas about what I wanted and Alan didn't dissuade me. I also wanted my pickups in a non-standard position - front pickup in normal P position, but bridge pickup as close as possible to the neck pickup. Worked well for me and the resultant bass is a dream! 

I've had 4 ACGs now, the original Graft Recurve 5 (gone but served its purpose well), my custom 5 Recurve (I doubt I'll ever sell this one), a custom 4 Recurve (similar spec to my 5 string, regretfully sold), the 4 string Finn "cricket club" bass (sold, regretted, bought back). Not a bad bass among them to be honest!

Same story with me; in fact it was the exact same Recurve bass which took me on my journey. My first ACG Custom, a 33” Finn 5, was superb but as soon as I then got a 32” Finn 4 I realised I wanted a slightly shorter 5 too. I now have 4 ACGs of different flavours but they are all bang on what they were supposed to be, based upon my learnings from that first Recurve and Finn. 

[PatrickJ]

I fear I may be heading down the same ACG path.  I've only had my RetroB J4 a few days and have already sent Alan an enquiry about a fretless brethren for it.

Edited May 17, 2021 by PatrickJ

[eude]

I had a couple of Shukers for my first custom basses, having been cursed by owning a Warwick Thumb, simpler Fender style basses just were not going to cut it for me ever again 
I had also played a 33" Fodera in Boston and knew I wanted a shorter scale, so I went ahead with a single cut 6er and then a modern Jazz Bass, both in 33" flavour.

After these two basses, I met and spent some time with Alan at ACG Towers, chatting and playing some of his early work, way back in the mid 00's, but I knew from that point onwards there was going to be a few ACGs in my future and sold both the Shukers to fund this.

I went ahead with several 33" commissions over a few years, until I figured out that 31.5" scale was a perfect fit for me, frustratingly, we had actually been talking about going that route for a compact 6 string bass way back in 2006, but I didn't actually pull the trigger on the concept till 2015!

I've since moved on all the 33" basses, and have mainly 31.5", one 30.5" and a mad 26.6" one.
They all serve different purposes and make quite different noises, all based on experiences I've had playing other basses over the years. To my ears the woods of a bass can have a significant impact on the sound, and I've settled on Limba or Ash for body woods on almost all of my builds.

I've bought and sold custom basses as I've figured out what truly worked for me, but I can't imagine being without any of the current herd now.
If I had to keep just one though, it would be this one, which is oddly very similar to my first ACG in some aspects, but with all the tweaks I've discovered along the way...

Eude

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by eude

[BigRedX]

2 hours ago, BassApprentice said:

This for me is the hurdle, I would love an ACG/Sei/Shuker but I would have no idea where to even begin. I don't think I've spent enough time with enough basses to even know what I would want them to make. 

Just another excuse to try and buy more things 😂

The first question you have to ask yourself is why you want a bass from a particular luthier?

IME it should be because they offer something different to what you can get from a mainstream manufacturer whether it be something visual or a combination of design features that are unavailable "of-the-peg". Remember that these days there is such a wide variety of basses available from the various manufacturers that you have to have a particular reason to go for a custom bass in that it can't easily be fulfilled from what is available from the mainstream manufacturers.

As I've already said in the previous post intros thread don't get bogged down by thinking that you have to make a decision regarding every single aspect of your instrument. That's what the luthier is there for. If you go them with the look, feel and sound you want, they should be able to put together an instrument to meet these criteria. If they can't you should look elsewhere.

Edited May 17, 2021 by BigRedX

[Woodinblack]

When it comes to customs, it is easy to say "I want a ACG/Sei/Shuker" etc, but I find it helpful (like tattoos) to pick the luthier from the stye of work they do being what you want. Of course they could all do anything, but they have their strengths. I have a Shuker Uberhorn and I have had an ACG Recurve (and looked into an alpher), but the thing is, they are not that much like each other. Although you can customise what you want, change string spacing, wood types etc, ultimately a shuker mostly looks like a shuker and an ACG mostly looks like an ACG. I would happily have either in a heartbeat if I could afford it (and there is a 32" headlace salace that was calling me on the latter), but I find it a lot easier to look at what they have done (they all have pages of their previous creations), and find something you do like as a starting point.

[PatrickJ]

29 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

The first question you have to ask yourself is why you want a bass from a particular luthier?

IME it should be because they offer something different to what you can get from a mainstream manufacturer whether it be something visual or a combination of design features that are unavailable "of-the-peg". Remember that these days there is such a wide variety of basses available from the various manufacturers that you have to have a particular reason to go for a custom bass in that it can't easily be fulfilled from what is available from the mainstream manufacturers.

All true but there's something to be said about the experience of commissioning a custom build that you don't get with an off the shelf purchase, no matter how fine the instrument and even if your custom is a straight jazz or precision build.

These builds take around 10-12 months to complete and it's an amazing experience, from researching and choosing your Luther, to the initial consultation on specification to the build  updates you receive as it comes along. And then the mix of excitement, anticipation and nerves when it's finally ready.  I'm glad I've done it at least once.

Edited May 17, 2021 by PatrickJ

[Bigwan]

1 hour ago, Merton said:

Same story with me; in fact it was the exact same Recurve bass which took me on my journey. My first ACG Custom, a 33” Finn 5, was superb but as soon as I then got a 32” Finn 4 I realised I wanted a slightly shorter 5 too. I now have 4 ACGs of different flavours but they are all bang on what they were supposed to be, based upon my learnings from that first Recurve and Finn. 

I could see a 30" 5 string (or 30.5" as Alan makes them) ACG in my future... although probably distant future given recent events!!!

Edited May 17, 2021 by Bigwan

[Merton]

Just now, Bigwan said:

I could see a 30" 5 string (or 30.5" as Alan makes them) ACG in my future...

Go on... you know you want to!

[Bigwan]

5 minutes ago, Merton said:

Go on... you know you want to!

Yes I do... But no, I can't!

[eude]

5 minutes ago, Bigwan said:

Yes I do... But no, I can't!

 

[LukeFRC]

26 minutes ago, PatrickJ said:

These builds take around 10-12 months to complete and it's an amazing experience, from researching and choosing your Luther, to the initial consultation on specification to the build  updates you receive as it comes along. And then the mix of excitement, anticipation and nerves when it's finally ready.  I'm glad I've done it at least once.

As someone sitting waiting for a build that is pretty much ready (though technically it's not a custom build for me in this case) I can say I've expereenced nothing but anticipation and frustrated energy waiting for it. Going into PMT is WAY easier!

[Bigwan]

10 minutes ago, eude said:

 

[Muzz]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

The first question you have to ask yourself is why you want a bass from a particular luthier?

IME it should be because they offer something different to what you can get from a mainstream manufacturer whether it be something visual or a combination of design features that are unavailable "of-the-peg". Remember that these days there is such a wide variety of basses available from the various manufacturers that you have to have a particular reason to go for a custom bass in that it can't easily be fulfilled from what is available from the mainstream manufacturers.

As I've already said in the previous post intros thread don't get bogged down by thinking that you have to make a decision regarding every single aspect of your instrument. That's what the luthier is there for. If you go them with the look, feel and sound you want, they should be able to put together an instrument to meet these criteria. If they can't you should look elsewhere.

And therein lies the main issue; person to person communication. I'd say that any luthier can guide you based on what you tell him/them, but they're not mindreaders, and the more information you give them, the closer the end result will be. 'Feel' and 'sound', however, can be very relative, and so need even more information. You could say 'I want it to sound like a P Bass', which is a very basic request, but within that you might mean a JJB sound, and the luthier might think James Jamerson...or one of the many other sounds a P-Bass can make...and I know they can (mostly) be wrung from the same bass with work, but a luthier will attempt to make a bass skewed towards that goal. Again, the more info, the closer the result will be. If you don't have the experience of quite a lot of basses and what you liked about them, that information you give can also be compromised; you'll get what you asked for, but it might not be what you wanted. As another example, if Lfalex, as he described earlier, goes to a luthier and asks for 'The smoothness/tonality of the Vigier. The growl and bark of the Infinity SN4. The weirdness, immediacy and string impact noise (from the piezo) of the Ibanez EDA.', what he might end up with is a right old mess...a good luthier will tell him what's achievable and what isn't, of course, but the 'neither fish nor fowl' compromise is always the danger...

I've worked in Technical Pre-Sales for IT, and the biggest part of the job is working with the customer to ascertain how close their initial request is to what they actually want...my favourite quote around this is from Alan Greenspan, and it goes "I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

TLDR: As long as it's not contradictory, the more info you can give a luthier the better... 🙂

[zbd1960]

... Lesson #1... don't read threads like this.... Now I've been drooling on my laptop scrolling through various web sites...