Zoom B1 Four

[Al Krow]

Nice review John!

Given that the HPF and the tuner on the B1-4 should be at least as good as that on the MS-60B and you're getting a tone close to your VTBDI, seems to me you could easily get away without using either and have a one-stop shop in your B1-4.

If you wanted, you could also pick up a compact battery-free passive DI from Behringer for £14. Job done

Edited May 9, 2019 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

Took the B1X-4 to rehearsal last night.

Used the studio's slightly muddy Ashdown rig. I've tried really hard to like Ashdown RM heads and their cabs but not yet found ones I've really liked;  I guess I've been a bit spoiled by my VK and BF cabs! 

I ended up only using 3 of the original patches: A-wah, Jaco (just for a bit of fun) and Dark Crunch to help cut through with the slightly muddy rig.

But the pedal has had its first outing and it was a very good way to introduce bandmates to their bass player becoming 'effected' 😁

Looking forward to setting up some bespoke patches over the weekend.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

Nice one Bas. I’d like to try mine out at the next rehearsal but I’ve still to run my new Paradriver and M82 through my gig yet. 

[Chienmortbb]

DI out would have been great but apart from that it looks lihexaxstrp up from the B1On

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

DI out would have been great but apart from that it looks like a step up from the B1On

Joyo ZGP (courtesy @operative451) to sort out noisy PSU input. Behringer DI (courtesy @jrixn1) to provide a DI out when needed. Total additional cost - around £25

Complete one-stop shop sorted (and add the X-rated wah-pedal version if you want some additional fun)! 😀

Edited May 10, 2019 by Al Krow

[Dennis1971]

13 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Joyo ZGP (courtesy @operative451) to sort out noisy PSU input. Behringer DI (courtesy @jrixn1) to provide a DI out when needed. Total additional cost - around £25

Complete one-stop shop sorted (and add the X-rated wah-pedal version if you want some additional fun)! 😀

Another numpty question here, I get the Joyo to get rid of noise... will get one to be able the power supply I still having knocking around (Mooer). If I decide to go down the route of using a FRFR cabinet do I need a DI box or can use the output from the B1 Four straight into it...?

Can tell all this multi effect and FRFR speaker is new to me LOL

Thanks

[Al Krow]

DI box only really required if your mixer / PA gear requires a balanced input. 

If your mixer has a high impedance input you should be able to go straight into that. 

[dannybuoy]

You only need a high impedance input (which are rare to see on mixers) if you're plugging a passive bass straight in. Your would be good to plug the Zoom straight into a bog standard line input.

[jrixn1]

You'd want a DI box for longer cable runs. There's no "rule" as it depends on many changing/environmental factors - but as a guide, longer than 5m.  The DI box will convert your unbalanced signal to a balanced one, which eliminates interference noise.

So you won't need a DI box for going straight from your Zoom to your active speaker, since it's presumably a short cable.

The time you would use a DI box is if you're running to a front-of-house PA system (but it doesn't sound like you're doing this).
 

[Al Krow]

25 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

You only need a high impedance input (which are rare to see on mixers) if you're plugging a passive bass straight in. You would be good to plug the Zoom straight into a bog standard line input.

Did you mean active bass dB?

Edited May 10, 2019 by Al Krow

[Dennis1971]

Thanks for all answers, don't need a DI box unless I want to plug into the PA. 

active Ibby Sr500 > Zoom B1 Four > FRFR Speaker 

Joyo ZGP to sort out the power supply to the Zoom

Thanks again for input. 

 

 

[Dennis1971]

Off to get familiar with the ZOOM, works well via USB / Mac / Guitarlab / Headphones

Nice bit of kit 

[dannybuoy]

20 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Did you mean active bass dB?

Nope. An active bass, like a preamp or pedal, is not too fussy but prefers to be plugged into a low impedance line input. A passive bass will lose a lot of top end unless it is plugged into a high impedance input.

Edited May 10, 2019 by dannybuoy

[Al Krow]

29 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

Nope... 

Ok you're gonna need to walk me through that as it seems the wrong way around!

Where an amp has separate 'active' input and  'passive' inputs, the active input is usually a higher impedence input. So, similarly, I would be expecting an active bass to go into a high impedance input on a mixer but a passive bass more likely to be ok not doing so? 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Al Krow

[dannybuoy]

Mixers usually just have low impedance line inputs and mic preamps. Sometimes (this is more common on audio interfaces) you might see a guitar input labelled 'Hi-Z' (high impedance).

This is why it is recommended to pair a passive bass with an active DI (like a Radial J48), as they have higher input impedances than passive ones (like a Radial JDI).

I haven't checked impedance specs of many amp inputs though, but would expect them to follow suit. Perhaps labelling can be confusing if an input is simply labelled 'Hi'; it isn't clear if that refers to high impedance, high signal level, or high gain, all very different things!

Edited May 10, 2019 by dannybuoy

[Al Krow]

Bit of a frustrating evening - downloaded GuitarLab so I could access the Low EQ patch, but unlike ToneLib it just isn't picking up that my B1X-4 is connected up. Ugh!! Probably missed something very basic...

[dannybuoy]

Are you using the cable that came with it (assuming it did)? If you’re using some random one you had lying around, some cheapo micro USB cables that come with phone chargers only have the power pins hooked up, so can’t transmit data.

[Al Krow]

 

4 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

 An active bass, like a preamp or pedal, is not too fussy but prefers to be plugged into a low impedance line input. A passive bass will lose a lot of top end unless it is plugged into a high impedance input.

I've found the following comments on the net.

1. The active input is "padded", meaning that it has less gain to accommodate active basses with higher output. They also usually have different impedance, but it's mostly high enough so you can plug in either input.
2. Passive inputs have higher impedance, since its impedance should be 10-times higher than the impedance of the incoming signal. This avoids loss of highs due to impedance mismatch.
3. An active input generally has -10 db the volume of the passive one (meaning it's half as loud). If you plug an active bass into the passive input and play loud, you'll probably clip the preamp, causing distortion. This doesn't hurt the amp unless you do it constantly, but it usually sounds terrible. Unless you're too quiet, use the active jack.

The second backs up your point, the third ties into what I was thinking, so I'm not 100% clearer on this point! 

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, dannybuoy said:

Are you using the cable that came with it (assuming it did)? If you’re using some random one you had lying around, some cheapo micro USB cables that come with phone chargers only have the power pins hooked up, so can’t transmit data.

Sadly it didn't come with a USB or a PSU!

But your point doesn't quite fit the fact that ToneLib can send and receive data from the pedal via my USB cable, it's just Zoom's GuitarLab that can't.

[jrixn1]

7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

I've found the following comments on the net.

1. The active input is "padded", meaning that it has less gain to accommodate active basses with higher output. They also usually have different impedance, but it's mostly high enough so you can plug in either input.
2. Passive inputs have higher impedance, since its impedance should be 10-times higher than the impedance of the incoming signal. This avoids loss of highs due to impedance mismatch.
3. An active input generally has -10 db the volume of the passive one (meaning it's half as loud). If you plug an active bass into the passive input and play loud, you'll probably clip the preamp, causing distortion. This doesn't hurt the amp unless you do it constantly, but it usually sounds terrible. Unless you're too quiet, use the active jack.

The second backs up your point, the third ties into what I was thinking, so I'm not 100% clearer on this point! 

Are you conflating signal level and impedance?

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Are you conflating signal level and impedance?

John - very probably, I'm certainly confused 😀

I had assumed that the way that the active input cut the volume by -10dB  compared to the passive input, on a bass amp, was by reducing the signal strength and doing so by having a higher impedance. But that's obviously very simplistic and incorrect.

[jrixn1]

I don't know either 😎
I thought I did - until I started thinking about it...
Then I realized I didn't 😁

[dannybuoy]

42 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

John - very probably, I'm certainly confused 😀

I had assumed that the way that the active input cut the volume by -10dB  compared to the passive input, on a bass amp, was by reducing the signal strength and doing so by having a higher impedance. But that's obviously very simplistic and incorrect.

Yeah, I thought that's where you might be getting confused, they are different things.

A pad is just like a volume control, but on a switch that flicks between 100% and 50% volume, so that you can prevent high output basses from clipping your inputs.

Think of impedance as resistance, and imagine you're plugging your bass into a big resistor. Passive pickups are sensitive to what kind of load they are hooked up to, which is why your bass will sound brighter with 500K pots than 250K ones. In a similar way, the input impedance of an amp or DI will affect the tone of the bass, as that input stage effectively joins up to form one circuit with your tone and volume pots.

Stick a powered transistor amplifier (AKA a buffer, which could be an active preamp) in between the bass and mixer/DI/pedal/amp/etc though, and it will isolate the pickups from the rest of the chain. Your pickups 'see' the input stage of the buffer only, and the tone is then not unaffected by the input impedance of what comes next in the chain.

[dave_bass5]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Bit of a frustrating evening - downloaded GuitarLab so I could access the Low EQ patch, but unlike ToneLib it just isn't picking up that my B1X-4 is connected up. Ugh!! Probably missed something very basic...

Took me a while to get it up and running on my PC. I found i had to delete the USB drivers for it when its connected, and then re connect it and Windows would load the drivers again which seemed to do the trick. 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

Took me a while to get it up and running on my PC. I found i had to delete the USB drivers for it when its connected, and then re connect it and Windows would load the drivers again which seemed to do the trick. 

Wow, that's effort! You would have thought they would have made it a bit easier than that! 

On the plus side I've had a fun couple of hours on ToneLib creating several bespoke patches. Particularly like the slapback delay