Zoom B1 Four

[dave_bass5]

Well Its definitely got the characteristics of the Stomp IMO. 

Its so far away from the B1 Four that i cant see why you would want it, considering you sold your Stomp and never used it, but loved the convince of the much smaller B1 Four. Wouldn’t you be back to square one, having another multieffect that you wont take out?

 

EDIT. Sorry, I meant to say Helix, as in the larger one, not Stomp. 

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by dave_bass5

[Al Krow]

8 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Well Its definitely got the characteristics of the Stomp IMO. 

Its so far away from the B1 Four that i cant see why you would want it, considering you sold your Stomp and never used it, but loved the convenience of the much smaller B1 Four. Wouldn’t you be back to square one, having another multieffect that you wont take out?

EDIT. Sorry, I meant to say Helix, as in the larger one, not Stomp. 

Aha HX Helix - ok that's getting closer  

Well the B1(X)-4 has been my 'gateway' multifx and if it wasn't for this darned digital noise which ped pointed out and I've now noticed I would absolutely want to stick with it. The Zoom has given me a taste for how useful / fun / good a multifx can be.

The Stomp (or any of the Helix family) couldn't get there by themselves, they weren't cutting it on the filter and synth front. This GE 300 just, however, might crack that final hurdle and I've got a taste for gigging multifx's now, thanks to the B1(X)-4.

But it's early days - I've got no idea how good the GE 300 will be on bass etc. yet.

[dave_bass5]

Well the GE300 looks very interesting, and the price seems pretty good. 

Interesting that none of the Helix boxes could match the B1 for filters, the big Helix seems quite popular with pro musicians. I think I’d be more tempted if they did a bass specific one though. 

[JohnDaBass]

@Al Krow and @ped please could you share which effects seem to cause the digital noise you are experiencing? I use a BF Super Compact and I don't detect any digital noise on the patches I have created, which are mainly Amp Sims with no distortion effects. Mostly patches are :- >>bass>>HPF>>Comp>>Amp Sim >> VT Bass DI>> Subway D800(set flat) >>BF SC.

[ped]

I use mine with batteries. There's noise under the notes as it decays, hardly noticeable but once you hear it it's annoying. It's almost like a 'breathing' sound and at first I thought could be noise created by the limiter but it does it when just using one of the pre-amp models. It kicks in about half a second after hitting a string and decays and comes back as the note fades until it breaks up and the note stops, at which point it sounds a bit like an aggressive noise gate would. 

My 'clean' patch is the Avalon DI model with the tone setting off, a reverb and limiter, but you get the noise with everything turned off. So I don't think it's to do with the effects themselves but the digital processing of the unit as a whole. I doubt it'll be noticeable though an amplifier to be honest, and for the price it's a great little tool but not 'studio' quality; hardly surprising for the price though.

[ped]

I'll try and record an example later today and do a non-noisy one for comparison

[LukeFRC]

5 hours ago, ped said:

Avalon DI model with the tone setting off

So I’ve played with the Avalon with tone off on my B3n and after a while couldn’t work out what it was doing to the signal compared to not having it on 

[JohnDaBass]

Ok, so I've plugged up my B1Four into my Mackie Thump12A frfr (lower case characters as it is really league division 2 compared to Headrush, RCF &  K12) which I use for a Duo project in small pubs. Went through my own patches, and some of the original patches which were not culled when the B1Four first arrived, and yup I can just hear some digital noise which I hadn't detected previously. The Thump12A has a higher frequency response than the BF SC and does expose the slight digital noise if you listen closely. An Alesis SR16 drum machine  is run into channel 2 and my bass via the B1Four into channel 1 of the Thump 12A normally and I'm sure any noise from the Zoom won't be noticeable in a pub gig environment. Until it was pointed out to me I hadn't noticed any slight noise and as I won't be using the B1Four for any recording I'm quite happy to ignore this minor issue of what seems to me to be a very decent value-for-money multi effect/ amp sim pedal.  

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, JohnDaBass said:

Ok, so I've plugged up my B1Four into my Mackie Thump12A frfr (lower case characters as it is really league division 2 compared to Headrush, RCF &  K12) which I use for a Duo project in small pubs. Went through my own patches, and some of the original patches which were not culled when the B1Four first arrived, and yup I can just hear some digital noise which I hadn't detected previously. The Thump12A has a higher frequency response than the BF SC and does expose the slight digital noise if you listen closely. An Alesis SR16 drum machine  is run into channel 2 and my bass via the B1Four into channel 1 of the Thump 12A normally and I'm sure any noise from the Zoom won't be noticeable in a pub gig environment. Until it was pointed out to me I hadn't noticed any slight noise and as I won't be using the B1Four for any recording I'm quite happy to ignore this minor issue of what seems to me to be a very decent value-for-money multi effect/ amp sim pedal.  

Totally agree about not previously noticing it until it was pointed out.

Who invited @ped to poop on our party anyway?! 😁😂

[ped]

20 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

So I’ve played with the Avalon with tone off on my B3n and after a while couldn’t work out what it was doing to the signal compared to not having it on 

It’s a B1on so the B3 might be better. 

[LukeFRC]

Just now, ped said:

It’s a B1on so the B3 might be better. 

Not comment on any noise of otherwise, badly worded question wondering why you use that model with its tone off. 

[Al Krow]

Interestingly I don't notice the same amount of "digital noise under the notes" with my MS-60B - is that also true for you @JohnDaBass with your MS-60B?

Anyway I'm really glad I spotted that the MS-60B has got a few effect sims that Zoom have not yet released for the B3n / B1(X)-4, like the bit crusher, and took it off the FS. So that's both been brought out of retirement and gone back on my home board, while I think about where to head on the multifx path next.

I've also realised that if I return my B1(X)-4 I'm going to need a new headphone amp as none of my other pedals have aux in or headphones out and neither do either of my amp heads. It's actually worth the entry price as a headphone amp with a bunch of effects thrown in and, in my case, I don't notice the digital noise at all through headphones.

Similarly it's not going to be an issue at all at rehearsal and gigs with the rest of the band in the mix!

Other than this one digital noise point, it's such an excellent versatile piece of kit.

Hah! I think I've just persuaded myself it should definitely be staying!   

[Woodinblack]

25 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

Until it was pointed out to me I hadn't noticed any slight noise and as I won't be using the B1Four for any recording I'm quite happy to ignore this minor issue of what seems to me to be a very decent value-for-money multi effect/ amp sim pedal.  

Yep, certainly wouldn't be an issue for me. I think for recording (if I did any) I would use the software helix anyway.

As a gigging device it seems pretty good. Was going to buy one soon (now my birthday has gone), but maybe I will just wait until @Al Krow sells his for the Mooer

 

[ped]

20 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Not comment on any noise of otherwise, badly worded question wondering why you use that model with its tone off. 

Ah from memory the Avalon model has something like seven settings that seem to act like a pre shape or something. ‘Off’ or possibly ‘1’ seems like the flat setting which is what I use. 

 

Just checked, they’re called ‘tone banks’ which is why zoom called it tone so it’s not like you’d expect a tone control to work 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

Yep, certainly wouldn't be an issue for me. I think for recording (if I did any) I would use the software helix anyway.

As a gigging device it seems pretty good. Was going to buy one soon (now my birthday has gone), but maybe I will just wait until @Al Krow sells his for the Mooer

Could be waiting a little while for one then Woody

I was very happy to fork out £85 to get one of the first of the B1X-4s to come out over here, and it's worth that price alone as a headphone amp and super easy-to-use tuner with its triple light indicator. 

The GE 300 is a pretty serious investment (£700 or so I believe) - so I defo won't be stumping up that until I understand a (LOT!) better whether it's any good with bass and particularly whether its filter and synth engine sounds good and tracks well. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Al Krow

[JohnDaBass]

33 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Interestingly I don't notice the same amount of "digital noise under the notes" with my MS-60B - is that also true for you @JohnDaBass with your MS-60B?

Nope can't hear anything on the MS60B. But I am not a good judge as both my 67 year old ears enjoy tinnitus and have been abused standing in front of bl**dy  noisey bass stacks for the last fifty odd years or so😆

[Al Krow]

That's helpful confirmation thanks i.e. more noticeable on the B1-4 than MS-60B for both of us. 

[dave_bass5]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the way the devices output the signal. The B1 can drive headphones, whereas the 60B cant, so there must be a difference there. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by dave_bass5

[Al Krow]

Trouble is, once you are listening out for this digital noise under the notes you can't unhear it!! I'm now finding I can easily hear it through my (decent) pair of headphones. Ugh!

However if I wanted to replace it as a headphone amp with a built in tuner the only alternative on the market seems to be the GK Plex, which would cost me over £300! At which point I would be definitely be better off getting a Helix Stomp (although I never did get find the headphone output to be that great on the Stomp - I'm finding the B1X-4 is actually better in terms of volume and clarity on that score).

Edited May 29, 2019 by Al Krow

[JohnDaBass]

I didn't detect it at rehearsal levels (Rumble 500 into one BF SC) last night! I remain very happy with the B1Four performance. 

The only question that sprung to my mind was " are these units Pre-production units " since Zoom UK were selling well before the major retailers. Normally a small quantity of units are produced on the assembly lines to "prove & validate " the manufacturing processes  before mass production commences. While the pre-pro units are a final hardware status the manufacturing test software and final product software may not have been concluded. I ordered mine from a retailer who e-mailed a day or so later to inform me that delivery would be at the end of May. So in the meantime I bought a B1Four from Zoom UK. I have been so pleased that I didn't cancel my order as I wanted two units, one for my small pedal board and one for battery, single use for my duo project. If my assumption is correct the retailer units maybe mass production units so it will be interesting to see how it performs in comparison to the B1Four I already have. 

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

I didn't detect it at rehearsal levels (Rumble 500 into one BF SC) last night! I remain very happy with the B1Four performance. 

John - I presume when you say rehearsal levels that was in the mix with your band rather than just simply turned up loudly at home?

Agree you shouldn't notice this digital noise with pretty much anything else in the mix e.g. aux in, or other band instruments etc.

Personally I don't think the Zoom UK units will be pre-production units - they will almost certainly have road tested this in Japan before exporting to the UK and US.

But as a headphone amp with tuner and effects there is nothing that comes close to this in the sub £100 price bracket.

And the only folk likely to ever notice this "digital noise" is going to be us bass players when listening out carefully for it and when playing an isolated bass. It shouldn't impact its live use at all.

So for both the above reasons it's gonna be sticking around a while longer in the Krow pedal pantheon and I'm going to pass on my 60 day window to get a full refund from Zoom UK.

[dave_bass5]

I think we are possibly overthinking this. It’s a £80 box that does everything. It cant possibly have the same quality as something costing a lot more IMO. 

I too have been looking at the Plex, but it’s overkill for what I need. In fact for the past few days I’ve used the B1 in bypass mode and have been using my BDDI as the tone shaper. There is definitely a difference in quality between the real thing and the sim, even though the sim sounds close enough.

Playing with a pick and using headphones is not ideal with this low end stuff  

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by dave_bass5

[ped]

Yep I paid £20 for my B1on so frankly I’m just pleased it works, but it doesn’t stop me wishing someone would make a top quality battery powered modelling multi fx headphone unit. Come on Roland! 

[JohnDaBass]

FYI got an email yesterday saying B1Four won't be available until the end on June!

[Chienmortbb]

Lols like the  GE300 will be way more expensive. They are quoting over $900 Canadian which would be around £700 over here. I cannot see that hurting Line 6 at all.