Deps that let you down

[bassjim]

Have you been here?

Rant begins:

  So after all the grief of getting gigs, seeing who is available, arranging dep cover for who ever is not ect , dep singer casually lets us down the night before a gig expecting us to be grateful for the sub standard dep she has put in her place. She was booked on this gig a month ago but got a better offer last minute. Went from "this girls good and can cover the gig but I want you guys to know you are my priority" meaning I'll still do the gig if you really want me to,  to  " actually I'm doing the other gig and thats final" when we expressed our concern at her replacements  obvious lack of ability.

We've cancelled the gig as we know only too well that embarrassing vibe on a gig thats going tits up and getting tarred with the same brush as the weak link.

The dep that let us down is a great singer so its very disappointing. There is an awkward feeling between us now so its unlikely we will offer anything to her again in the near future unless we are in a last minute desperado situation.

If I book myself on a gig thats it I'm committed. If that band gives me loads of gigs then I'm really not going to go out of my way to let them down. This wasn't some diary error, just plain and simple 'yeah I'll just change things around last min' selfishness.

How can we even think about talking to her again now shes done this? What would the great Basschat hive mind do in this situation moving forward?

 

 

[skidder652003]

Being let down due to illness or personal crisis is perfectly acceptable but being let down due to simply getting a better offer is beyond contempt. I would never work with someone like that again, they will let you down time after time.

[police squad]

agreed, NEVER offer her any more work, even if it's last minute

[Unknown_User]

15 minutes ago, skidder652003 said:

Being let down due to illness or personal crisis is perfectly acceptable but being let down due to simply getting a better offer is beyond contempt. I would never work with someone like that again, they will let you down time after time.

This.  If she's let you down for a better offer then she's obviously unreliable.  It might be a pain but I would find someone else as otherwise you'll be worrying about this happening every time you book her.

You obviously don't have to fall out with her, but I wouldn't be booking her for any more gigs.

[martthebass]

31 minutes ago, skidder652003 said:

Being let down due to illness or personal crisis is perfectly acceptable but being let down due to simply getting a better offer is beyond contempt. I would never work with someone like that again, they will let you down time after time.

As said above - This.

Any 'professional' would never cancel on the basis of a 'better offer' if they had committed to a dep gig.

[franzbassist]

Yep, that ship has sailed.

[lowdown]

10 minutes ago, martthebass said:

 

Any 'professional' would never cancel on the basis of a 'better offer' if they had committed to a dep gig.

 

It all depends on the situation really and what the better offer was. Pulling out of a dep gig to go and dep on another gig, for a few quid more, like you hinted at, isn't good form really.

You might have taken on a dep or two over a weekend and out of the Blue a show run comes in that clashes, or scheduled rehearsals on something else you had lined up, are pulled forward.

Or someone else has pulled out of a tour at short notice and you are asked. Although a pain, one does understand because you have been in the same situation.

It's how it's handled is the key. A suitable, top class replacement is the only answer, agreeable between yourself and the band leader/fixer/MD etc. This didn't happen in the OP's situation.

 

But, pulling out of gigs/shows at short notice is not unusual and does happen, with happy endings (well through my experience, and probably others).

 

 

[bassjim]

Going over fresh messages just now it looks like the following happened:

Us: 10th Jan : Can you do gig on 15th Feb?

Her: Yes

Then.....somewhere along the way the other band, which apparently she is also a full time member, asks same thing and she says yes to that too. Realising her mistake but only at the last minute,  we get dumped.

Basically she painted her self into a corner. She flipped up.

Thing is we did ask first and no matter what loyalties she has to her band there has to be some moral thing here.

But its done now and we move on.  New topic, maybe for a new thread but....

Have you double booked your self on a gig and only realised last minute what you have done and how did you sort it out? Or hypothetically what would you do if did?

[lowdown]

1 hour ago, bassjim said:

There is an awkward feeling between us now so its unlikely we will offer anything to her again in the near future unless we are in a last minute desperado situation.

For me, that's the sensible approach. Don't blow a good singer out totally, you might be in a similar situation again, and she is the singer to save the day at short notice.

Time is a healer and you might feel different towards her a bit further down the line.

[LewisK1975]

11 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

It all depends on the situation really and what the better offer was. Pulling out of a dep gig to go and dep on another gig, for a few quid more, like you hinted at, isn't good form really.

 

This is absolutely true.  Pulling a dep gig for a different DEP gig is bad form.

I take dep gigs with a covers band on the understanding that if anything comes in for my Full time (originals) band, then I won't be able to do it.

They are fine with that, they do use backing tracks though and have versions of said tracks which have bass on them, so they can still get by if needs be.  They just prefer to have a bass player instead of bass in the box..

Horses for courses / YMMV etc......

[martthebass]

33 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

It all depends on the situation really and what the better offer was. Pulling out of a dep gig to go and dep on another gig, for a few quid more, like you hinted at, isn't good form really.

You might have taken on a dep or two over a weekend and out of the Blue a show run comes in that clashes, or scheduled rehearsals on something else you had lined up, are pulled forward.

Or someone else has pulled out of a tour at short notice and you are asked. Although a pain, one does understand because you have been in the same situation.

It's how it's handled is the key. A suitable, top class replacement is the only answer, agreeable between yourself and the band leader/fixer/MD etc. This didn't happen in the OP's situation.

 

But, pulling out of gigs/shows at short notice is not unusual and does happen, with happy endings (well through my experience, and probably others).

 

 

I should have added ' unless it was by mutual consent with the other party' to be fair.  Other than that though, looking at some the reasons you suggest I would consider it unprofessional or at least bad planning/organisation on the part of the dep. 

[Happy Jack]

From where I sit, that's Game Over, Insert New Coin.

[lowdown]

8 minutes ago, martthebass said:

 Other than that though, looking at some the reasons you suggest I would consider it unprofessional or at least bad planning/organisation on the part of the dep. 

Sometimes maybe, but when schedules are changed by other people, it's out of your control and not bad planning on your part.

[martthebass]

Just now, lowdown said:

Sometimes maybe, but when schedules are changed by other people, it's out of your control and not bad planning on your part.

When that's happened to me I've declined the change as the planning issue is on the part of the other person/people irrespective of whether it is their fault or not. 

[chris_b]

As a dep you get one chance.

Unfortunately, a couple of years ago, I was Ill on the day of a dep gig I was doing. I called, canceled and apologized (I still feel terrible that I let them down) but I knew they would never call again. They haven't.

 

[dmccombe7]

I would never let someone down in those circumstances. Simple as that. Altho not a depping thing majority of our band play with one or two other bands and its a case of 1st in diary gets the gig. If a bigger or better paid gig comes in later then too bad unless everyone involved agrees and accepts that something is too good an opportunity for them. Under those circumstances the person would need to contact the venue to cancel or ask for gig to be rescheduled. We don't use deps in any of the bands.

Pretty bad thing to do for any musician. What comes around goes around as they say in the business.

Dave

[dmccombe7]

4 minutes ago, chris_b said:

As a dep you get one chance.

Unfortunately, a couple of years ago, I was Ill on the day of a dep gig I was doing. I called, canceled and apologized (I still feel terrible that I let them down) but I knew they would never call again. They haven't.

 

Don't feel bad. If its a genuine reason then there's not a lot anyone can do and everyone in the band would or should accept that even if you were the dep. 

Deps get sick too you know. 

Dave

[Lozz196]

I’m sure it’s different in the covers world but for us as an originals vsnd if any of us can’t make it we don’t play, no deps/stand-ins whatever.

[steantval]

I really cannot understand a band booking a gig if everyone is not available in the first place, totally understand using deps to cover unforeseen circumstances when is gig is committed to.

Our drummer always takes a couple of weeks holiday in August every year, this year he has not booked the actual dates as yet, I will not commit the band to any dates in August, even though we have the option of a very experienced dep, the band will never feel 100% tight unless we have all our regular members playing.

Our band just do a couple of gigs per month which is mainly for pleasure, being in a pro band, I can see the situation as being different.

Edited February 15, 2019 by steantval

[Les]

OP is right to feel aggrieved, it's not good enough.

Here is the best place to rant though, I'm sure she knows what she's done, no need to make sure she knows she is Satan cos' it's a small world on  each of our gigging scenes and you never know what's coming or what's been missed cos' two people on the same scene don't feel they can pick up the phone to each other.

Let it out on this august forum cos' you're absolutely right then let it go.

Les

[bassjim]

49 minutes ago, steantval said:

I really cannot understand a band booking a gig if everyone is not available in the first place, totally understand using deps to cover unforeseen circumstances when is gig is committed to.

 

When we book a gig in advance with a dep, we already know that dep and capabilities of that dep. Usually that dep has played/sung with us before so we know what to expect.  We never go out of our way to take a punt on someone and see what happens. Or do a gig knowing in advance the dep on offer is sub standard.

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by bassjim

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, steantval said:

I really cannot understand a band booking a gig if everyone is not available in the first place,

It looks like we are at opposite ends of the spectrum then.

I can't understand sitting at home, twiddling your thumbs, when you could be gigging, just because one of the band might go on holiday!

I also don't understand this all or nothing approach when it comes to band members. If these guys are the only ones you can comfortably play with then your band needs to work on improving their confidence, flexibility and musical ability.

[paul_c2]

I would have thought that for most bands (obviously appreciating that all bands vary.....) the singer somewhat "defines" the sound and the feel of the band - its not so much a case of "here's the band with a singer" its "here's the singer with a band"? So having a dep for the singing role seems a bit funny to me.

[chris_b]

12 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

I would have thought that for most bands (obviously appreciating that all bands vary.....) the singer somewhat "defines" the sound and the feel of the band - its not so much a case of "here's the band with a singer" its "here's the singer with a band"? So having a dep for the singing role seems a bit funny to me.

Very true, but I have played some very good gigs were the singer has been depped. You work out what the dep knows and what you know and the gig takes shape from there.

I would imagine it would be almost impossible to make this work with an original band or with a bunch of players with little experience or no depth of repertoire. 

[bassjim]

33 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

I would have thought that for most bands (obviously appreciating that all bands vary.....) the singer somewhat "defines" the sound and the feel of the band - its not so much a case of "here's the band with a singer" its "here's the singer with a band"? So having a dep for the singing role seems a bit funny to me.

Depends on how good the dep/s are.  We have tried out some in the past that we would never use again hence no giggy tonight. It would have to be the toss between canceling wedding or similar before we took a punt on an unknown or agree to use a sub standard singer. However our usual deps we already know are of a high standard. So its even more annoying as we could have booked one of them if we had known in advance what was going to happen.