Berg 2 x HDN210s to replace 2x Markbass NY122 Ninja stack: Should I do it?

[malpasso]

Hi, everyone!
My current amp setup consists in: Ampeg svt iiP Preamp > Quilter Bass Block 800 > 2 Markbass NY122 Ninja (Richard Bona signature) cabs. It is an amazing stack. 

I have to say that I have been fully satisfied in he last two years. Still...

The bug has bitten me to change the 2x 2 12" cab stack for another with two Bergantino HDN210s. Reason woudld be 

1. Downsizing.
2. Reducing 7 Kilos (3,5 per cab) in my modular setup.
3. Stacking the Bergs vertically would provide a taller, closer to the ear hearing onstage.
4. Last , but most important, improving tone: I miss the velvety, full but clear quality of my former Berg HD112ht+HD112ex stack.

What are your thoughts? Would my tone be more focused, with the quicker respose of 10" cones? Would I sacrifice bottom when parting with a 4x12incher combo? Would I lose or gain mids and sound more or less present in a band contest? Am I splitting hairs?...

I play all sorts of music, mainly rock/blues/soul oriented stuff, 30% slap. Mostly Jazz Basses and also fretless. Ampwise I'm one of those thousand persuing the light, portable SVT unicorn.

Cab gurus, have your say, please!!! 

Edited February 17, 2019 by malpasso

[Sparky Mark]

I prefer Bergantino HD210s over any Bergantino neo cabs that I have tried. They are quite heavy but still dimensionally small enough to be a straightforward load in/out. The Reference 210 replaced the HD210 and is probably the best sounding 210 in Bergantino' range.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Sparky Mark
Spelling mistake

[fleabag]

You have made a mistake by assuming 10's have " quicker response " as you call it.  There's no such thing. It depends entirely on the manufacturer as to what any speaker reproduces and how it does that.  You can get flabby 10's and tight  15's and so on.

Surely you will only be changing the cabs because of the tone you desire. Only 7 kg ( 3.5kg per cab ) is not worthing dumping your MB cabs for. Tone wise, if you prefer  Bergs, then that is the best reason to change. If the Bergs were half the weight, i could understand , but they're not half the weight.

Stacking vertical is your best option for dispersion and getting the cabs nearer your ear.  Adding extra cabs of identical nature , or removing indentical cabs,  ususally affects the amount of air you can shift ,  rather then gaining or losing bottom end.

Edited February 16, 2019 by fleabag

[malpasso]

Thanks for the replies!

As I stated in my initial post, "better" tone is the main thing. I assume my current rig already has a "good" tone. Other reasons+GAS should be subsidiary, but they add to the whole picture.

I can see your point, fleabag, but cats usually have four legs and slappers play no 18" cone cabs...see mine?😉

Berg HDN series is said to be an effort to follow up the discontinued HD range which , as Sparky confirms,  has a reputation for being gorgeous in tone.That's exactly what I find tempting!!

[Lozz196]

I’ve found that Markbass cabs seem to have a high-end roll-off, so swapping to the Bergs may well bring these in, so in effect making the tone broader.

[Sparky Mark]

9 hours ago, malpasso said:

Berg HDN series is said to be an effort to follow up the discontinued HD range which , as Sparky confirms,  has a reputation for being gorgeous in tone.That's exactly what I find tempting!!

Bergantino has always produced both neo and ceramic magnet speaker loaded cabs. The HDN range seems to be the latest neo evolution (following on from the AE and later CN models) whilst the Reference is the next generation of ceramic (following on from HT and later HD models). Although I am a fan of lighter Markbass cabs ( and do gig/rehearse with two NY121P on occasion) a single HD210 is a much better cab for depth and clarity of tone.  I too was happy with my pair of AE112s but they were no match for my HT112ER and EX112ER cabs.

If you want Bergantino's best combined with modularity, compactness, vertical stacking and flexibility two Reference 210 would be my choice. The only negative is the heavier weight but a small folding sack barrow deals with that for me if I need to go any distance.

If I went to the significant expense of a new pair of Bergs without being able to test properly (no UK dealer?) I would always have a niggling doubt if I didn't go Reference. However if weight really is the deciding factor over everything else then HDN is the way to go. 

[malpasso]

Thanks, Sparky! Really helpful info!!!😊

Edited February 17, 2019 by malpasso

[Musicman20]

I think Bass Direct are now stocking Bergantino cabs again....

[malpasso]

I am based in Spain, no dealers here, so no way I can try them out in person😞

No other MB NT122 Ninja users for impressions or direct comparison with the Bergs?

[ebenezer]

For what it would cost vs improvement you would get.....just keep what you have got.

[malpasso]

5 hours ago, ebenezer said:

For what it would cost vs improvement you would get.....just keep what you have got.

Mmmmmm! Of course, that is one of the options.🤔

[binky_bass]

Can't you stack those MB cabs vertically too? Looks like the corner protectors are grooved specifically to allow for that...

[malpasso]

36 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

Can't you stack those MB cabs vertically too? Looks like the corner protectors are grooved specifically to allow for that...

Sure I can, but the whole thing feels sort of flimsy to me because of the cabs' being so slim!

Edited February 20, 2019 by malpasso

[binky_bass]

I tried to stack my two Phil Jones 8B cabs, utterly impossible due to the placement of the castors and the chrome nature of the corner protectors, they literally slide off each other. The single only design flaw on an otherwise impeccable cab! 

These looks super sturdy by comparison!

[malpasso]

Sturdy they are, Binky! And I'm starting to think It might not be woth to change...😕

[mybass]

Try a couple of wedges under the top cab ? The MarkBass wedge may be too much so a couple of door wedges maybe just to direct the sound up a bit towards the ears.

[malpasso]

Thanks, Tybass! Still vertical stackability -or solutions in that respect-is the least important factor in my list.

Hasn'y anybody tried /heard/compared botn cabs? 

I've read comments saying that, unlike other Markbass cabs, the NY122 Ninja doesn't get boxy, honky or muddy. I can vouch for that. I can assure you you get lots of low end+clarity, pretty neutral in the mids, sensitive to how you eq them. This is why I consider the post subject a difficult decision:. it all comes down to improving what's already excellent!. Bergs shuld be really somthing reaaaaaaaally special to pull the trigger on them.

Edited February 24, 2019 by malpasso

[binky_bass]

I'm a Phil Jones man myself. I've used many a MarkBass cab as well as a reasonable cross section of other cabs out there. For me a PJB 8b is the best for low end clarity with a fantastic transparency to let your bass/amp really speak. I can't see myself ever using anything else at least for the considerable future. 

[Sparky Mark]

If there's no hurry to do the change can you wait until a HDN210 is advertised secondhand? Small format Bergantino cabs retain their secondhand value very well, so even if it didn't thrill you it'd be relatively painless to move on.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Sparky Mark
.

[M@23]

I just sold my Ninja 122 and Ninja amp, it was a great cab. I just don't it and wanted to downsize. I preferred it to 212s I've had that cost much more £. For the size, form and weight it produces a ton of output and was always a great sounding cab. I never pushed it, because with the Ninja amp it had some serious volume to hand. It only served as my stage monitor, but I always found that it offered a really nice clear sound onstage. Was disappointed to move it on, as tonally it was spot on for me. Also, the whole 600w rig weighed about 20kg.

[malpasso]

8 hours ago, M@23 said:

I just sold my Ninja 122 and Ninja amp, it was a great cab. I just don't it and wanted to downsize. I preferred it to 212s I've had that cost much more £. For the size, form and weight it produces a ton of output and was always a great sounding cab. I never pushed it, because with the Ninja amp it had some serious volume to hand. It only served as my stage monitor, but I always found that it offered a really nice clear sound onstage. Was disappointed to move it on, as tonally it was spot on for me. Also, the whole 600w rig weighed about 20kg.

Tanks for your view, M@23!! 

[Dan Dare]

On ‎24‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 12:20, binky_bass said:

I'm a Phil Jones man myself. I've used many a MarkBass cab as well as a reasonable cross section of other cabs out there. For me a PJB 8b is the best for low end clarity with a fantastic transparency to let your bass/amp really speak. I can't see myself ever using anything else at least for the considerable future. 

Snap. I went shopping for a portable combo and liked the Markbass 1x12. There was a PJB C4 in the shop and out of curiosity, I asked to try it. Driven by the baby GK head, it beat the MB combo for volume, fullness of tone and clarity. I changed my plans on the spot and bought it (with my head, it works out about the same size and weight as the average 1x12). I found it so good, I ended up selling my old larger cabs and buying another, plus a 4B and that is now my standard rig. The beauty of it is that the individual components are small/easily carried and I can take as much or as little as I need to a job.