Starting The Whole Song Again

[stewblack]

Don't know if this ever happened to you, but I took some advice handed down on another thread. Not being near my bass, I thought, I can still listen to the set, listening is good subliminal practice. At least this is what @geoham said

Quote

"Put all the songs on to a Spotify playlist (or similar), and listen to it while commuting, working or whatever. You may be surprised how much your brain takes in subconsciously. "

and it makes perfect sense. I needed to brush up on Wham's Wake Me Up as I've not played it for a while and there's a lot going on, subtle variations and all that. So I searched YT for a bass cover of said tune. At least the bass will be prominent I thought but look what came up

Not heard this guys interpretation before and it kicks my lame version far into the long grass and out of sight. Such a great driving rhythm, it's bass played with a smile on its face. Even with no other instruments this guy sets toes a-tapping and heads a-bopping. So now I have to relearn the whole darn thing from scratch. I cannot pretend I haven't heard this now. It's in my brain. Can't decide if it's easier as I have already got the song roughly there or harder because of the subtle and sometimes not so subtle differences. Either way there will be some root note and smile bass parts to other songs as this is going to take time I'd allocated elsewhere.

Edited February 21, 2019 by stewblack

[Happy Jack]

We only ever start the whole song again when the guitarist forgets to put on his capo. 

[stewblack]

[stewblack]

34 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Mmm. I would have to go back to the original and have a listen, but that's not how I learnt it and I've got the dots for it (somewhere).

I would say it's a decent interpretation of the feel of it.

I learned partly from the dots partly from repeated listening but I just love this guy's feel.

[stewblack]

I'm still working my way through it, I've found one bum note which I definitely will change but as I say it's the way he makes the bass line bounce along so joyfully, that's what I want to capture.

[stewblack]

Thank you, that's very kind. I do have the dots from a couple of sources and indeed from this version as the guy was kind enough to include a download. 

Whether true to the original or not this is such a great interpretation that this is the one I am learning. 

[chris_b]

Don't get too enthused about the guy in the isolated bass video. I'd use this to get the notes together and then work them into a performance playing along to original.

[jazzmanb]

I tend to interpret to a degree and it generally sounds ok.Some songs what have been gigged a lot i'll hear somewhere I realise i'm playing quite a lot differently but it works .You have to fill some songs out with the restraints you have in your band 

[KevB]

15 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

We only ever start the whole song again when the guitarist forgets to put on his capo. 

More words of wisdom from the spiderman. I've seen bands start again from the top for what appears to be some quite anal reason from  an OCD victim of a bandleader. It makes the band look like schoolkids. I know thisr eally hasn't anything to do with the OP.

Edited February 22, 2019 by KevB

[LITTLEWING]

Nice bouncy fluent playing, but is it just me that is reaching for my toolkit to get rid of that freakin annoying rattle on every string????

 

Aaagh!!!!!!!

[Ricky 4000]

I once searched YT for a bass cover, and the one I clicked on turned out to be me doing it. I'd forgotten I knew it already.

None of that's true, but it would be funny if it was. 😬

[ubit]

Nice sound although I don’t remember the original having such a dirty tone

[EMG456]

Not being a naysayer here- the guy can certainly play- but that’s not note for note what the great Dion Estuss played on the record.

IMO if you’re looking for accuracy, you’d be better listening to the source and then putting your *own* twist on it for any of the parts which don’t easily fall under your fingers.

[stewblack]

1 minute ago, EMG456 said:

Not being a naysayer here- the guy can certainly play- but that’s not note for note what the great Dion Estuss played on the record.

IMO if you’re looking for accuracy, you’d be better listening to the source and then putting your *own* twist on it for any of the parts which don’t easily fall under your fingers.

Absolutely it's not, nor was my original interpretation. As I say it's the feel, the way he drives the song forwards that improves the way I'd been playing it. I'm not slavishly recreating the original bass line rather trying yo breathe life into the way my band plays  it. 

The post is really about starting over when one has already learned something in a particular way. The difficulty of unlearning muscle memory, the joys of perpetual discovery, embracing as wide a range of ideas and influences as possible and thereby enriching one's knowledge and skill set. 

Of course everyone is free to take the discussion in any direction they like. 

[EMG456]

35 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

EDIT: It's Deon Estus by the way 😏

Ha- guilty as charged- I was too lazy to look it up!

33 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Absolutely it's not, nor was my original interpretation. As I say it's the feel, the way he drives the song forwards that improves the way I'd been playing it. I'm not slavishly recreating the original bass line rather trying yo breathe life into the way my band plays  it. 

The post is really about starting over when one has already learned something in a particular way. The difficulty of unlearning muscle memory, the joys of perpetual discovery, embracing as wide a range of ideas and influences as possible and thereby enriching one's knowledge and skill set. 

Of course everyone is free to take the discussion in any direction they like. 

Didn’t mean to take it off course- I just gave it a listen and heard a guy doing a passable approximation of the original part. I can’t imagine that if you’ve been playing the song, you’re so far away from that version that you need to completely start afresh but you’re the one who knows. I think I’d only be likely to go back to scratch if I was taking the song into another genre for the cover or sometimes for key changes if the original involves a lot of open strings?

Also remember that we are often our own harshest critics.

Edited February 24, 2019 by EMG456
Spelling

[stewblack]

Sorry EMG wasn't a swipe at you at all. I just meant if the thread drifts in a different direction that's fine. 

And yes I always think everyone else plays better than I do, I'm a terrible judge of my own ability. 

[Woodinblack]

On 21/02/2019 at 20:50, stewblack said:

 I needed to brush up on Wham's Wake Me Up as I've not played it for a while and there's a lot going on, subtle variations and all that. So I searched YT for a bass cover of said tune. At least the bass will be prominent I thought but look what came up

Well, thats what you get for not listening to the instructions. Was it, "go and listen to some guy isolated on youtube"? No, it was "go and listen to spotify". If you had done that you wouldn't have been able to hear the bass properly and you could convince yourself you were doing the right thing

The only time I have had to relearn is when I have either hashed a version together as I had to learn 20 songs in a week for a gig, and it got ingrained (like moondance), or if I join another group who are doing the same song, and it has turned out that over the years of doing it in another band you have drifted so far from the original it doesn't fit, which is the situations I find myself in.

I think both are a bit tricky really, once you have learned a song, changing it is really really hard. After all, I have no idea how I play those songs, I just tell my brain we are playing that song, it tells my fingers and then we get on with it

[Stub Mandrel]

On 23/02/2019 at 00:18, Ricky 4000 said:

I once searched YT for a bass cover, and the one I clicked on turned out to be me doing it. I'd forgotten I knew it already.

None of that's true, but it would be funny if it was. 😬

I once searched google for something totally unrelated to do with astronomy... and one result was a picture of me playing guitar.

I suspoect it has soemthing to do with Google's personalised search algorithms rather than my status as an out of this world musician 🤣

[Monkey Steve]

For the OP - in my experience of covers bands (more on guitar than bass) once something's in the set it tends to get ignored and then morphs over time, and sometimes it's a surprise when I've listened to the original after some years.  Sometimes it makes me change things, sometimes I can't be bothered if our version is working fine.  But if I do hear another cover version and I think it works better for some reason, I might have a think about picking the best bits out of that - it's happened once or twice

For Happy Jack's derail - it would need to be a significantly serious mistake and right at the start of a song to get a band of mine to re-start anything.  A missed cue or playing the wrong riff that the songs hangs off of, that sort of thing.  If it's anything else then crack on and fix it as you play.  Never a good look on stage, always seems self indulgent, like the gig is more about the band playing than the audience listening

Though, if anybody's got Between Wine and Blood Live by New Model Army, calling the f#cked up version of Purity "Impurity", stopping and starting again so that they're all in the right key and leaving it on there as a separate track is brilliant

[Stub Mandrel]

Sadly a rehearsal not live, but I have a tape of my first band doing Moni Moni. It was the one song he sang on. After a couple of verses I went round with a (simple) bass solo then he does an frantic drum solo, but instead of easing back into the groove he just tumbles over himself like someone whose jumped off a bus while its going to fast until the drums grind to a halt, he then cackles and manically shrieks "Wipeout!"

[TimR]

I can’t stand this song with a vengeance. Played it for years with a band who wouldn’t listen to the vocalist. All too intent with getting the feel and putting their own spin on it. 

Make sure you listen to the singer and make sure you fit with the vocal line. There’s a lot going on with the vocals and they’re different in each verse. Playing something fancy on the bass may sound great to you but if it throws the singer out and makes it impossible to sing to, the whole band will sound bad. 

[stewblack]

Always sound advice TimR. I like to think I have the need of the bands I play for uppermost in my mind these days. When I was younger I was guilty of playing for the plaudits of the punters but not for many years now. 

[mingsta]

I'll listen to songs over and over when we are learning a new setlist. But once it's bedded in, I rarely go back unless it's to prove that pesky singist wrong on something!