Use of image

[Monkey Steve]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

Yes, but what is being discussed here is the use of the image and the right to privacy. 

I would suggest that at a festival, the landowner is not going to ban photography and performers waive their right to privacy when out in the crowd and performing on stage. 

It’s all about expectation and what your average person would deem expected.

cough...

 

22 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

Included in the Ts & Cs for purchasing a ticket you will agree both to be photographed, and that you will not use any photographs taken for commercial purposes.  So you can take photos and have your photo taken because those terms have been agreed to by all parties,  not because it is a public area where the law allows it.

But that's not what you've been arguing is it?  You've been arguing that people have the right to take photos of you at festivals .  They don't.  There is a contractual agreement for people to have their photos taken, and to not use the photos for commercial reasons.  A contractual agreement is not a right.  And that is only really there because these days doing anything else is unenforceable.  It wasn't that long ago that people with cameras were stopped at the entrance, and anybody caught taking photos was thrown out.

[TimR]

32 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

cough...

 

But that's not what you've been arguing is it?  You've been arguing that people have the right to take photos of you at festivals .  They don't.  There is a contractual agreement for people to have their photos taken, and to not use the photos for commercial reasons.  A contractual agreement is not a right.  And that is only really there because these days doing anything else is unenforceable.  It wasn't that long ago that people with cameras were stopped at the entrance, and anybody caught taking photos was thrown out.

Do you have an example of those T&Cs? 

What legal basis does the right to privacy have at a festival. My guess is that’s similar to the bit of worthless paper you sign before you bungee jump that ‘waives your rights’ in the case of an accident. It’s only there to put people off trying it on. 

[ahpook]

TIFF tiffs, eh ?

 

[Monkey Steve]

20 minutes ago, TimR said:

Do you have an example of those T&Cs? 

What legal basis does the right to privacy have at a festival. My guess is that’s similar to the bit of worthless paper you sign before you bungee jump that ‘waives your rights’ in the case of an accident. It’s only there to put people off trying it on. 

Here's what Glastonbury has to say: https://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/information/tickets/#TCS  Term 12 for the festival goers and Term 10 for the photographers, with an extra page to expand on that: https://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/information/media/photography-at-glastonbury/

Here's Download - General Term f for festival goers, Banned Items d for photographers: https://downloadfestival.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/DL-Ts-and-Cs-2019-v3-FINAL-.pdf

British Summer Time at Hyde Park (terms 19 and 25, although interestingly they don't directly deal with amateur photography): https://www.bst-hydepark.com/terms-of-use

Reading (and presumably Leeds) General terms e and g: https://www.readingfestival.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2019-Reading-Weekend-Ticket-Terms-and-Conditions.pdf

General Term H at Wilderness https://www.wirelessfestival.co.uk/terms-and-conditions

shall I go on?

[TimR]

I can’t see anything there relating to the privacy of the performer. Anyone with permission to take photos, either written for commercial, or as the attendance T&C can do whatever they’ve like with the photos and take whatever photos they like. 

The people there are pretty much deemed to be in a public place as far as photographs taken of them goes. 

[TimR]

GDPR however and the storage of people’s faces could be interesting. 

[Monkey Steve]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

I can’t see anything there relating to the privacy of the performer. Anyone with permission to take photos, either written for commercial, or as the attendance T&C can do whatever they’ve like with the photos and take whatever photos they like. 

The people there are pretty much deemed to be in a public place as far as photographs taken of them goes. 

and you think that the festival makes a point of covering all these points when they sell the tickets, but doesn't mention the consent to being photographed in the artists contracts?  

If they were deemed to be in a public place then there would not be any need to have the Ts & Cs.  And if you had read and understood the Ts & Cs you would have seen that you cannot do what you like with the pictures you've taken because you cannot use them for commercial purposes without authority, which you do not need if they were taken in a public place.  So it is very, very different from photos you have taken in a public place. 

Are you genuinely not understanding this point?  I'm done repeating myself

Edited February 27, 2019 by Monkey Steve

[TimR]

Ok. So if the OP didn’t sign artist T&Cs then any photos of them can’t be used because they’re performing in a private place and haven’t given consent to having their photo taken.

That would be interesting to try and persue. I certainly haven’t signed anything for any of the private gigs I’ve attended or performed at.

It’s one of those T&Cs that wouldn’t stand up to any scrutiny, like the bungee jumping T&Cs about injuries. 

I still say if you’re performing at a festival you’d expect to be photographed.

[Monkey Steve]

19 minutes ago, TimR said:

Ok. So if the OP didn’t sign artist T&Cs then any photos of them can’t be used because they’re performing in a private place and haven’t given consent to having their photo taken.

That would be interesting to try and persue. I certainly haven’t signed anything for any of the private gigs I’ve attended or performed at.

It’s one of those T&Cs that wouldn’t stand up to any scrutiny, like the bungee jumping T&Cs about injuries. 

I still say if you’re performing at a festival you’d expect to be photographed.

you don't have to sign anything for Ts % Cs to apply.  You are deemed to have consented to them by buying a ticket/appearing at the festival.  It's what asterisks on websites were invented for

Edited February 27, 2019 by Monkey Steve

[TimR]

32 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

you don't have to sign anything for Ts % Cs to apply.  You are deemed to have consented to them by buying a ticket/appearing at the festival.  It's what asterisks on websites were invented for

There are usually no T&Cs for any of the gigs I do. There’s certainly no tickets, agents, websites etc  

These T&Cs are a civil agreement between two parties as far as any ‘laws’ are concerned. To sue someone for taking your picture or for a landowner to sue someone for taking photographs it would be dealt as a civil matter. 

There’s no automatic law forbidding photography. The landowner would have to attach those conditions to your terms of entry. 

[Monkey Steve]

5 minutes ago, TimR said:

There are usually no T&Cs for any of the gigs I do. There’s certainly no tickets, agents, websites etc  

These T&Cs are a civil agreement between two parties as far as any ‘laws’ are concerned. To sue someone for taking your picture or for a landowner to sue someone for taking photographs it would be dealt as a civil matter. 

There’s no automatic law forbidding photography. The landowner would have to attach those conditions to your terms of entry. 

no, that's not the same as having a right to take photos.  You would have to stop taking pictures if challenged, and you would have absolutely no rights to use the photos commercially.  the fact that there is no law automatically forbidding photography until challenged is a very different thing to having a right to take photographs, because rights do not disappear when somebody asks you to stop.  

the truth here is that nobody cares enough to do anything about it, and they wouldn't get very far if they tried - certainly not at the level of a gig where nobody is paying to get in.  But it might be very different if you tried to sell photos of a band who can afford to take you to court

[Stub Mandrel]

I took a photo on my phone at a gig and the band retweeted it 🙂

This thread is confusing the right to stop someone taking photos and the right of someone in a photo to control its use.

Landowners can stop you taking photos, but they have to tell you not to - for example with a sign or terms and conditions. Local festival, no sign, no t&cs - Take your photos.

You can stop someone using a photo if it breaches your privacy - same rules apply as any other 'public' place bearing in mind the law interprets privacy in this case according to how people are behaving not whether it's private land or not. Walking along a mall or in the crowd at a gig is 'public', in the changing room or as part of a small group doing an activity together isn't.

Compare to performance rights: " Performances are considered "public" if they take place in a public place and the audience is outside of a normal circle of friends and family, including concerts, nightclubs, restaurants etc. "

If you are standing on a stage in front of a large group of people, any right you have to control images can only be if they are taken without permission when there's a ban in place.

That's my understanding of the law as it is now.

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Stub Mandrel

[tauzero]

9 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

Here's what Glastonbury has to say: https://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/information/tickets/#TCS  Term 12 for the festival goers and Term 10 for the photographers, with an extra page to expand on that: https://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/information/media/photography-at-glastonbury/

Here's Download - General Term f for festival goers, Banned Items d for photographers: https://downloadfestival.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/DL-Ts-and-Cs-2019-v3-FINAL-.pdf

British Summer Time at Hyde Park (terms 19 and 25, although interestingly they don't directly deal with amateur photography): https://www.bst-hydepark.com/terms-of-use

Reading (and presumably Leeds) General terms e and g: https://www.readingfestival.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2019-Reading-Weekend-Ticket-Terms-and-Conditions.pdf

General Term H at Wilderness https://www.wirelessfestival.co.uk/terms-and-conditions

shall I go on?

The basic tenet seems to be that the organisers of the festival have the right to say who takes photos for public consumption. In the OP's case, it's the festival organisers that have used the photographs, so presumably they've given consent to themselves for the photos that they've given consent for to be used in the publicity material.