Moving from electric to double bass

[julietgreen]

I'm just about to acquire a 3/4 double bass. I've only played electric before, though have done a bit of fretless. Any tips? What will it be like? Is it like learning from scratch or are there transferable skills? 

[Staggering on]

Congratulations on moving to DB!

Many of us have done the same thing and you will get lots of good ideas and advice on here, there are other threads about this topic on this site.

It is definitely a different instrument than EB but it is so much fun to play you will love it.

Good luck!😀

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Staggering on

[itu]

For me the most helpful idea was to put dots (3., 5. etc.) to the side of the fretboard. You may use tape or nail lacquer. Use flageolet notes (harmonics) to find the exact positions.

[petebassist]

There're loads of free tutorials available on DiscovereDoubleBass.com, and many courses that you can sign up to which very reasonable, I've signed up to two. I find the website great to use.

If you're playing pizzicato, I also found this DVD Jazz Upright Bass DVD by Ed Friedland, to be a great DVD to take you through the basics from stance, hand positioning, tone, etc. 

Good luck!

[tinyd]

The transferable skills are that the notes are the same, but finding them and playing them are very different  

Best way to approach is as a new instrument, especially when it comes to technique - it's worth spending time developing some rigour around fingering in particular. The quicker you get used to the Simandl-style 1-2-4 fingering and position shifting the easier it'll be, as trying to "stretch" like you might on a BG will leave you with poor intonation, and sore (or worse) arms and hands.

In general, take it slowly, play less notes than on BG, and have fun!

[lowlandtrees]

A full length mirror is very useful for posture check as well as admiring yourself for hours on end

[Happy Jack]

Book yourself at least ONE lesson with someone who knows that they're doing.

The number of wrong turnings you will avoid, mistakes you didn't need to make, simple things you didn't think of, will more than justify the fee.

If you tell us where in the country you are, you may get some helpful recommendations as to who to contact.

Oh yes, and you will NOT regret buying a DB. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Happy Jack

[philparker]

...also, a good set up will help. If it is not already set up or poorly set up from the previous owner take it to a Luthier and get a good check up and set up!

[rosscoebones]

dots at 3 and 5 are huge help, dont worry about going any further than 5 ;-). Dont be gentle (if you are going to slap anyways) and enjoy :-) (oh, and stretch plenty before playing!!) :-)

then enjoy some more :-)

[Burns-bass]

The biggest rookie error (I certainly did it) was staring at the side of the fingerboard to check intonation. It fundamentally alters the position of your arm, so that when you then look forward at the crowd or sheet music, your intonation goes out again.

What helped me was working though drones to get my intonation and then using arpeggios in ii V I s in all 12 keys to help me shift position. StilL working on it.

[Cathode_Follower]

Tried to edit my post but quoted by accident I think. Not sure how to delete, this is a redundant post now. See below!

Edited March 3, 2019 by Cathode_Follower

[Cathode_Follower]

5 minutes ago, Cathode_Follower said:

As a self taught electric to upright transitioner, I'll reiterate a few points already mentioned above and add my own -

Definitely get a full length mirror, that's an absolute must!

Spend most of your time to begin with just developing good (simandl) fingering in first position on the G string, it took me a couple of months at least I think. Chromatic exercises are really helpful.

Watch your wrist! You can get away with a lot of wrist bending shenanigans with electric that just aren't possible with upright and will send you straight to tendonitis-ville. Working on you fingering should go hand in hand (pardon the pun) with getting a good straight wrist and general arm position, posture and how you hold the bass. Everything is connected. Watch videos of other bassists (anyone who has technique that looks anything like Geoff mentioned below is a good reference!) and don't be frustrated if you cant get it straight away. Correct technique feels weird and uncomfortable at first but it gets easier!

Definitely check out discoverdoublebass.com, Geoff pretty much taught me how to play. Also check out Acoustic Bass by Gary Peacock (it should be on Youtube).

Personally I would recommend against dots - the sooner you can feel your way around the neck without looking the better. Dots only serve as a crutch in the long term. Using the mirror as a reference is great because you can see where your hands are but there isn't a direct correlation to what you're feeling so your brain doesn't reinforce your needing the visual reference, if that makes sense. Practice chromatically in 1st position and practice hitting the 5th and octave harmonics (all relevant fingers), looking in the mirror at first and then try harmonics with your eyes shut. Your body is great at vectoring the positions of your extremities based on the angle of your joints (touch your nose with your eyes shut - how did you know where that was eh?) and you can fast track it by being consciously aware of how your arm 'feels' in any given position, trying to remember that, moving somewhere else and then coming back, trying to reproduce that feeling, and then play a note to confirm (or not!)

Got a bit carried away there..! Take it sloooow, relax, develop a meditative attitude and try to have fun with the basics, you'll be doing them for a while if you want to do it right!

 

 

[Staggering on]

I'd say go with the dots, at least to start.

The anti-dot movement has never made much sense to me. Every guitar and bass (except for some fretless basses) have dots and inlays on the fingerboard and I've never heard anyone saying that they shouldn't be there and that you will rely on them and hence be a worse player and probably a "bad musician" too. Not only that but guitars, basses,mandolins and banjoes have frets to make getting the right pitch easier!

I have put removable dots on my EUB and DB and find them useful sometimes in the heat of the battle to just check occasionally so I actually know I'm in tune, which isn't always easy when playing in a band as opposed to practicing alone. I don't play with my eyes focused on the dots, I'm reading a chart or playing from memory and rarely look at the fingerboard, but it's nice to know the dots are there for a quick reference.

 

...shuffles off to work on intonation...

 

[Cathode_Follower]

28 minutes ago, Staggering on said:

I'd say go with the dots, at least to start.

The anti-dot movement has never made much sense to me. Every guitar and bass (except for some fretless basses) have dots and inlays on the fingerboard and I've never heard anyone saying that they shouldn't be there and that you will rely on them and hence be a worse player and probably a "bad musician" too. Not only that but guitars, basses,mandolins and banjoes have frets to make getting the right pitch easier!

I have put removable dots on my EUB and DB and find them useful sometimes in the heat of the battle to just check occasionally so I actually know I'm in tune, which isn't always easy when playing in a band as opposed to practicing alone. I don't play with my eyes focused on the dots, I'm reading a chart or playing from memory and rarely look at the fingerboard, but it's nice to know the dots are there for a quick reference.

 

...shuffles off to work on intonation...

 

Well said sir. I do in fact have some discreet dots left by a previous owner that are impossible to remove, and as you say, they are indeed occasionally of great value 'in the heat of battle' as you put it!

I suppose everyone's experience is different, and some may find it easier than others to 'come off the dots' so to speak. But I would certainly counsel the OP to at least try sans-dots to begin with. Especially if they have spent their EB days always looking at the fretboard, it may be a hard habit to break. Having the opportunity to start afresh on a new instrument has a lot going for it.

As has been mentioned, being in a position where you can see the fingerboard is often not condusive to good technique re. hand and arm positioning. While it's true that an experienced player can hold the bass in all manner of different ways depending of the environment etc, for a beginner - where the focus on basic technique should be the highest priority - I feel it's most important to develop a good feeling of the instrument in the most balanced, natural stance possible.

Of course it is up to the OP to make their own choice at the end of the day. The dots debate is age-old and has probably been discussed to death on these boards many times over already!

Perhaps dots on the fingerboard face viewed in a mirror is a good compromise?

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Cathode_Follower

[NickA]

Well you will certainly need to shift to 1,2,4 fingering and also need to play without ever looking at your fingers ... it's easier than you might think as when you slide your hand up the neck, as soon as your thumb hits the heel of the neck your first finger will fall on a fifth above the open string - ie B, E, A or D  (though on some basses - mine included -  you have to reach back a bit with your first finger to hit those notes as their necks are designed for better access to higher notes including an octave above the open string)

One way to locate first position (first finger on F#, B, E or A) is to put a bit of elastoplast on the back of the neck where your thumb needs to sit (ie directly below where your 2nd finger is playing a Bflat on the G string).  Then yhou can always find that position and by putting finger 4 where 2 was (with thumb on the plaster) can find half position etc etc.

Probably have a few starter lessons with a decent bass player.

I was a 'cellist before I was an electric bassist, before I was a double bassist ... so managed a combinaton of cello and e-bass combined with a copy of Simandl to work it out -  still needed a few lessons to set me right when I reached around classical grad 7 and got stuck.  Should probably have some more, but at present working out what notes of a chord to play in what order is proving more urgent than how to reach them!

Yup, it's a totally different instrument basically .. Good luck

Edited March 4, 2019 by NickA
typos

[md54]

You are in for a very big shock! It's a hell of a lot harder than EB on several levels. Good luck!

[Staggering on]

1 hour ago, md54 said:

You are in for a very big shock! It's a hell of a lot harder than EB on several levels. Good luck!

Ah yes, but it feels so good!😊

[md54]

A large bottle of Surgical spirit (don't drink it) will be essential for the fingers especially the side of your right index finger. That finger should point to the floor when plucking to get a good jazz sound. It gets a hell of a thrashing. Definitely not like an EB movement at all. 

[NickA]

On one level I find the double bass easier to play .. just because I don't try to do anything too difficult on it.   ( Cimadore's double bass concerto pales into insignificance compared to Donna Lee or Portrait of Tracey .... ) .

You can save your fingers a bit by a) using either of index and middle finger; when changing strings you can change fingers now and then  (spread the load), b) let the amp do the work, you don't need to play as hard as you think, c) practice short and often 'till your fingers harden up.   I asked Alec Dankworth about this once - and he says even he gets blisters for the first few days after his annual 2 week holiday - but lots of practice is the key.

.. and yes it is great fun and so much cooler than playing an electric ;¬)

[MJJS]

On 03/03/2019 at 14:27, Staggering on said:

I'd say go with the dots, at least to start.

The anti-dot movement has never made much sense to me. Every guitar and bass (except for some fretless basses) have dots and inlays on the fingerboard and I've never heard anyone saying that they shouldn't be there and that you will rely on them and hence be a worse player and probably a "bad musician" too. Not only that but guitars, basses,mandolins and banjoes have frets to make getting the right pitch easier!

I have put removable dots on my EUB and DB and find them useful sometimes in the heat of the battle to just check occasionally so I actually know I'm in tune, which isn't always easy when playing in a band as opposed to practicing alone. I don't play with my eyes focused on the dots, I'm reading a chart or playing from memory and rarely look at the fingerboard, but it's nice to know the dots are there for a quick reference.

 

...shuffles off to work on intonation...

 

I’ve been told by a luthier that hires basses out to top orchestras that they come back with pencil marks all over them!

I used a tip-ex pen to put dots on.

[Staggering on]

2 hours ago, MJJS said:

I used a tip-ex pen to put dots on

I use one of those White Out pens that is used for correcting typing/printing errors. It's simple to use and easy to make exactly the size of dot you want. It lasts a long time and is easy to remove. Gollihur Music and other dealers sell stick on dots that are neat and easy to apply and remove. 

 

[NickA]

Need to be a contortionist to see the dots mind .....

[Staggering on]

2 hours ago, NickA said:

Need to be a contortionist to see the dots mind .....

Nope, the dots are on the side of the fingerboard facing me. I play standing up and they are easy to see. As I said above, I just use them for a quick check now and then if I'm a bit unsure of the intonation due to band volume or my basic insecurity.😟

[NickA]

I will admit, the other week we started off playing "Triste" and I was obviously playing the wrong chords .. thought I'd maybe printed a Bflat chart .. nope, I'd dropped my left hand in 2nd instead of first position 😞

[julietgreen]

Aw - great advice all you folks! Got the thing in my hands first time today and, yeah, index finger is a little sore, but it was fun. Played a little bit through some 'slow jazz' 2-feel rooty things and a touch of slow bossa. Probably rubbish technique full of errors but I will get some lessons and am already looking at the Discover Double Bass site!