DanOwens Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 So we bought an XR18 to use with our powered sub and tops, but we regularly find venues have built in systems so we just plug in. This works most of the time as the XR18's main output is XLR, as is most power-amps input. The problem we have occurs when we find an integrated mixer/amp with jack inputs. Up to now I've just lugged our system in but we've got some touring to do, so.... Can I just use XLR-to-jack cables to plug the XR18 into the 'poweramp in' on an integrated mixer/amp? Or will there be issues around balanced/unbalanced signals? I know every time I've used an XLR to jack with a microphone it's been awful. Thanks for your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 You can connect the cold (3) and the ground (1) together to sleeve, and hot (2) to the tip. This is something else than mic to line input... If you have noise issues, try to use the same power line to all units that connect together, mix-amp-spkrs. If there are other active parts connected, like bass amp or similar, the same power line usually helps. If you want to cut the galvanic line, you can use tiny transformers inside the adapters. These are ready: https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/products/accessories/d-shape-adapters You can build your own using these: https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/products/accessories/modules https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/nte1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 The problem I have found with converting balanced line to unbalanced simply by connecting the ground and cold pins together, is that you can end up with both noise and cross talk issues. I'm now using an ART DTI box for a very similar situation. It has XLR, 1/4" Jack and Phone connections on both sides and the inputs and outputs are transformer isolated from each other. Connect the balanced outputs of your XR18 to balanced ins of the DTI and then use whichever outputs are appropriate to connect to the in-house system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard R Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 +1 for ART DI box worth the money every time and protects your kit from unknown FOH wiring issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigguy2017 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Make up a couple of XLR to TS jack cables; wire XLR2 to jack tip wire XLR3 to jack sleeve wire XLR1 to cable screen and do not connect at jack plug. Balanced signals don't actually need the screen - the signal is the difference between hot and cold. The above cables will be screened via the mixer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Bigguy2017 said: Make up a couple of XLR to TS jack cables; wire XLR2 to jack tip wire XLR3 to jack sleeve wire XLR1 to cable screen and do not connect at jack plug. Balanced signals don't actually need the screen - the signal is the difference between hot and cold. The above cables will be screened via the mixer. While this will work perfectly well it relies on the fact that you have special custom cables, and therefore you are going to need extra spares just in case one or both of them go wrong. Using something like the ART DTI box allows you to use standard XLR or 1/4" Jack leads which any band running its own PA system will have plenty of already. Mount the DTI box in the rack along with XR18 so that it can't get mislaid, and since its a few sockets and two audio transformers there's nothing in it to go wrong. By far the safest option IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Are you sure the jack inputs aren't balanced? Most pro gear should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 12 hours ago, Jack said: Are you sure the jack inputs aren't balanced? Most pro gear should be. I’m not sure. It’s a ‘power amp in’ on an old desk so I’m just expecting the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) If its a euro desk style mixer with a built in power amp why can't you just go into two channels of the desk xlr to xlr, the connections are even already the correct way around from the outputs of an xr mixer being female on the mixer and male on a channel strip. That way you're not having to unwire the venue's instalation in any way plus the FOH EQ on the venue's desk should already be right for their speakers in that venue. Edited March 6, 2019 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, stingrayPete1977 said: If its a euro desk style mixer with a built in power amp why can't you just go into two channels of the desk xlr to xlr, the connections are even already the correct way around from the outputs of an xr mixer being female on the mixer and male on a channel strip. That way you're not having to unwire the venue's instalation in any way plus the FOH EQ on the venue's desk should already be right for their speakers in that venue. Last time I did that things were feeding back awfully as we were feeding a line level signal into microphone preamps and maintaining unity gain was impossible. Most of the integrated desks have a 'Power Amp In' and most of the time these are XLR, but this time they're 1/4" jack. I won't have to unplug anything as the integrated desk interrupts the desk's connection when you connect to the 'Power Amp In' sockets. "the FOH EQ on the venue's desk should already be right for their speakers in that venue" I was taught by the engineers I've toured with the zero any graphics and revoice the room; I never trust someone else's voice up. I bought an Art DTI and its inbound. It'll be racked with my XR18, router and power. I'll post pics when it arrives and you can all mock my cabling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I can't see any reason not to just use a pair of xlr to jack convertors then, what sort of power in Watts are we talking? You could get a cheap class D pa amp and hook up the output to the venue's speakers sort of turning your desk into a powered one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 2 hours ago, stingrayPete1977 said: I can't see any reason not to just use a pair of xlr to jack convertors then, what sort of power in Watts are we talking? You could get a cheap class D pa amp and hook up the output to the venue's speakers sort of turning your desk into a powered one. I'm not sure how loud the 'in-situ' desk is, but the XR18 is only feeding a line-level signal into whatever it is. I've only ever plugged into another desk 3 times. The first time it wasn't me that set the PA up (the rest of the band did) and they plugged it into two mic-pre equipped channels. Feedback, weird sounds that I assumed were impedance mismatches and awful phantom frequencies were the main problems, but I quickly identified that the desk had a Power Amp In so I plugged our desk in. Interestingly it was our old desk that had XLR and Jack outputs so it was easy, but the XR18 doesn't have Jack outputs, only XLRs. BigRedX's comments were congruent with my experiences and the DTI seems like a budget solution that has effectively given the XR18 jack outputs. Out of the solutions of a pair of Class D amps to build a bespoke power amp, normal cables that might result in the issues that I've described above or perhaps custom cables, the DTI seems sensible. I'm not resolving a problem that I've encountered with this set up, but given that I'm the guy who's shouldered the responsibility of getting us sounding good, having this solution (also phono outs in case we need to connect to a DJ mixer) seems like I'm pre-empting problems that I've encountered in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 You wouldn't need a pair of class D power amps to bypass the venue's system, a regular one has left and right in/out but I know what you are saying. Good luck! Us bass players do seem to get these tasks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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