Advice, please, for idiot level new guy

[Paul S]

[quote name='Musky' post='353779' date='Dec 13 2008, 06:39 PM']Congrats on the new combo!

Yep, any 8 ohm cab will do. You can in fact get away with a lower powered one if you wanted - with the extra cab the MAG will be knocking out about 150w into the internal speakers and 150w into the extension cab.[/quote]

Thanks guys.

Musky - that has confused me, not that it takes much. I thought you got [i]more[/i] Watts if you added the second cabinet, not less.

Or, thinking about it, is it simply maths - 2 x 150W > 1 x 250W?

Anyway, maybe to keep things ssimple the best plan would be to keep my eyes peeled for a second hand MAG 115, if and when I decide to extend. I may not need to but no doubt I'll find out once I've gigged this a few times.

Thanks again.

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='Paul S' post='353814' date='Dec 13 2008, 07:17 PM']Musky - that has confused me, not that it takes much. I thought you got [i]more[/i] Watts if you added the second cabinet, not less.[/quote]

You do. You're not getting the full 300W with the single speaker. I can't remember the exact number, but it's probably in the 220W ballpark. So when you add the extension, you get fewer watts to the integrated speaker, but more in total.

S.P.

[bass_ferret]

The power rating of cabs is largely irrelevant - if you start hearing farty noises back off the volume or bass boost. For technical reasons mixing cabs can produce unpredicatable results and the classic 1x15/2x10 is not always the best option; but if you like how it sounds who cares about the science.

[Paul S]

I think you are all on the money - deciding by sound must be the bottom line. Being able to switch and swap stuff about might not be practical but I guess is the only way to be truly happy with the sound.

Example was buying the Ashdown combo in the first place. I was highly recommended to go for the 115 version - the idea being that the bigger speaker would sound better with the high output of my Jaguar. When I tried the two side by side - 115 and 210 - the 210 sounded more like what I wanted even though it might have been, technically, wrong.

Incidentally they wheeled out an Ashdown MAG-115 EVO III 300W, reckoning the EVO II is now obsolete (I just looked, the EVO III isn't on the Ashdown website yet!). Smaller, lighter, vinyl finish, chrome corner protectors, cream coloured beading around the grille - no compressor! I didn't like it.

[Bass-ic]

Hi Paul.
How did the combo work out. I am also new to amps/combos and as far as I can make out the combo +extra bin was where i was heading. would be interessted to hear your comments.
Did you get to play it before you bought it?

Cheers
Matt

[Paul S]

Hi Matt

Confusing when it's all new, isn't it! I took the step up from spare bedroom to band about 4 months ago and all this extra kit is doing my head in.

I haven't used the Ashdown in anger yet, only in the shop. I have a rehearsal tomorrow night so should be able to give a more informed reply on Wednesday, especially as I can pitch up an hour or so before the others and, er, fiddle with my knobs in solitude. Then a gig Saturday (can't wait!) so I will get to see how it performs with the DI through the PA.

That said even just playing the 115 and 210 alternately in the shop I preferred the sound of the 210. My back and wallet were shouting at me to get the 115 - which is significantly lighter and cheaper - but in the end my ears settled it. Plus the 210 has a built in compressor. I am not exactly sure of the science behind it - something to do with smoothing out irregularities? - but I DO know that it sounded a whole lot better with that engaged. Maybe that is down to sh*te technqiue, I don't know. But even without it, the 210 sounded better, to me, than the 115. I was playing with a USA Jazz from their Fender wall, incidentally, which plays similarly to my Jaguar when passive. I did also add an extra 115 cab for a while and this is something I will definitely get once my bank balance has recovered as it did make the sound 'fuller' - as you'd expect.

But, then, these things are so subjective. Best advice is repeated from the guys below - go and try it.

Edited December 15, 2008 by Paul S

[Bass-ic]

Hi Paul.
Thanks for that, can you let me know how it goes?
Matt

[chris_b]

[quote name='Paul S' post='354863' date='Dec 15 2008, 10:57 AM']....even just playing the 115 and 210 alternately in the shop I preferred the sound of the 210. My back and wallet were shouting at me to get the 115 - which is significantly lighter and cheaper - but in the end my ears settled it....[/quote]
Usually 2 cabs will sound better than 1 cab because the amp will be running at 4 ohm giving more power, in your case 300 watts rather than 200-ish watts, but the real difference is the improved tone from the extra speakers shifting more air. When you come to an extension cab try another 2x10. It will have more "punch" than a 15 but should go just as deep.

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='chris_b' post='354907' date='Dec 15 2008, 11:52 AM']Usually 2 cabs will sound better than 1 cab because the amp will be running at 4 ohm giving more power, in your case 300 watts rather than 200-ish watts, but the real difference is the improved tone from the extra speakers shifting more air. When you come to an extension cab try another 2x10. It will have more "punch" than a 15 but should go just as deep.[/quote]
+1

Dont be convinced you "have" to get a 1x15. If you preferred a 2x10 to the 1x15 then you will probably prefer 2 2x10's to a 2x10/1x15.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='354928' date='Dec 15 2008, 12:19 PM']+1

Dont be convinced you "have" to get a 1x15. If you preferred a 2x10 to the 1x15 then you will probably prefer 2 2x10's to a 2x10/1x15.[/quote]

+1.

It's down to your preference, but I would always take 2x10s over a 1x15.

[Paul S]

Yup, will do Matt.

This is fascinating. I had assumed that the 1x 15 would be the cab of choice but obviously that was wrong.

Ok so, for the sake of discussion, what about a 4 x 10 cabinet - how would that affect the sound? Or do other issues start to come in here?

[lowhand_mike]

yeah paul i went through all this about 2 years ago and it did me head in. i was convinced by the traditional 2x10 and 1x15 route but i have decided to go for an extra 2x10 cab (when funds permit).
you could then get into the fun of speaker placement, like having the 10's all in a vertical line by turning your combo and cab on their side then stacking them , without going into all the tech behind it it does sound better IMHO.
but its not obviously wrong to go down the 1x15 route if it sounds good to you.

you could indeed go for a 4x10 and it should sound good and shift more air but there are theories that would contradict that in phase cancellation and dead spots in the room etc. but dont worry about that for now or you'll never buy anything

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Paul S' post='354967' date='Dec 15 2008, 12:54 PM']This is fascinating. I had assumed that the 1x 15 would be the cab of choice but obviously that was wrong.[/quote]

It used to be. Then 10" speakers got better and the tide shifted that way. If you compare most 2x10" and 1x15" combos the latter are cheaper because the single 15" they use is pretty cheap. When you put a cheap 15" in a small cab you end up with two problems - the weak magnet hasn't enough power to really push the large cone and give good strong midrange punch so you end up with a muddy tone, and the small enclosure size kills off your lowest lows but makes the midbass go all boomy. Hence most people think all 15"s are muddy and boomy.

When I started working on cab designs a few years back I went through tons of different configurations and drivers and ended up back on 15"s because you can now get really amazing ones which no current 10" or 12" can match for sheer output and bottom yet clear punchy tone. How? Really powerful magnet gives midrange punch and larger cab gets you deep yet not boomy bottom. That's an oversimplification but it's the essence of the situation.

What do we learn from this? That the only thing the nominal diameter of a speaker can tell you about it is how big it looks! The tone and performance are down to many other factors all of which interact. (For instance you might assume that making the magnet ever more powerful will get better and better performance but actually it'll just kill off the bottom - it's delicate balancing act).

Alex

[Paul S]

[quote name='Absolute-beginner' post='354891' date='Dec 15 2008, 11:38 AM']Hi Paul.
Thanks for that, can you let me know how it goes?
Matt[/quote]

Well, the morning after the night before. The Ashdown was great. Great in rehearsal - cut through the noise (rest of the band) really well and gave a great sound. It only seemed to go a little louder but filled the room more, if that makes sense.

For the gig last night the guy sorting out the mixer decided to keep the bass volume low through the PA so the main bass volume came from the combo itself - and it totally held it's own with a small crowd (100+/-) in a small-ish community hall that doubles as a badminton court with extra bits. Had the gain at about 12 o'clock and the output at around 1 o'clock so there was a little bit to go - but I will definately get the extension cab for future gigs. The sound was great, too - my litmus test is when we murder 'All Right Now' - during the guitar solo the bass part was ringing out beautifully on the high notes and low notes.

I should say I don't have experience of playing all sorts of different gear in all sorts of different places and so this endorsement isn't a particularly informed one, but it gave me the sound I wanted at the volume I wanted in the size of venue that I am going to be haunting, so I guess I can't ask any more.

[Apex]

Just come across this very informative thread. Your opening post sets out my own situation almost exactly - I have been running a 50W Torque through the PA and am looking to upgrade, but with a bad back weight is a major issue. The Ashdown clearly did the job, but how was it for transport?

Gordon

[Bass-ic]

Hi Paul.
Thanks for the info.

cheers
Matt

[Paul S]

[quote name='Apex' post='360064' date='Dec 21 2008, 09:05 AM']Just come across this very informative thread. Your opening post sets out my own situation almost exactly - I have been running a 50W Torque through the PA and am looking to upgrade, but with a bad back weight is a major issue. The Ashdown clearly did the job, but how was it for transport?

Gordon[/quote]

Hi Gordon

Well, being honest the Ashdown isn't [i]that[/i] lightweight at just under 30kgs but it has good solid handles on each side making it easy to pick up and carry if you get into a sensible position - you know, the old squat down with your knees bent, back straight sort of stuff. If you suffer from back problems you'll know what I mean. My old Peavey was much the same weight but only had one handle on the top and that was REALLY bad to carry - puts your body in all sorts of stressful lopsided positions. Plus I use a wheeled dolley thing to move it along the flat which helps.

But I am sure there are lighter units around if it is a problem.

[Apex]

[quote name='Paul S' post='360121' date='Dec 21 2008, 11:42 AM']Hi Gordon

If you suffer from back problems you'll know what I mean. My old Peavey was much the same weight but only had one handle on the top and that was REALLY bad to carry - puts your body in all sorts of stressful lopsided positions. Plus I use a wheeled dolley thing to move it along the flat which helps.[/quote]

Hi Paul, thanks for the fback. I do know [u]exactly[/u] what you mean! A friend has bass cab with one handle and I can't shift it without lying down for a week! I've already got a trolly, but upstairs gigs have proved a pain - literally!