Trace Elliot V-Type V4 MK2

[thodrik]

3 minutes ago, VTypeV4 said:

I had a bit of my own 'bass bash' the other night comparing these two heavyweights. The V6 is the one mentioned and pictured previously in this thread - it comes to live with me occasionally and somthing I very much welcome! The SVT is mine though, it's the setup I bought back in July. Ideally, I'd have took the V4 (and ran both amps through the same cabs - which I didn't) but the V6 has an almost identical core tone and in some ways, a closer relation to the SVT owing to the fact there's no drive channel or compressor on either. So, the V6 was ran through an Ampeg PR series 8x10" and the SVT through it's accompanying 410HE and 115E. I used both my Warwick Streamer and my VM Squier but I do wish I'd taken my Status with me too - it's been my 'go-to' bass since it arrived.

 

 

In terms of power and volume, it's tricky to say as the PR cab is a probably a touch more sensitive than the both the Classic line cabinets and, no, I didn't dime either amp but it's definitely fair to say, both are capable of moving the drivers to the point of it becoming pretty uncomfortable! If we are to believe the ratings of each being accurate, there's only 1.5dB of theoritcal SPL difference in them anyways. I know there's the often banded about 'trace watts' in other thtreads on the forum but in reality, I don't think many have bought a full fat SVT and were disappointed in it's volume capabilities either. Being honest, in my experience at least, once you're up past 150 / 200w with a valve amp, there's rarely a night and day volume difference between them anyway - through the same speakers at least.

 

 

Arguably, out of the two, the SVT has greater flexibility with it's 5-way mid control giving a different tonality / character for each position. The EQ generally on the Ampeg feels a bit more honest and does what it says with greater accuracy and less interaction than on the Trace. That's not to say one is 'better' or indeed, 'worse' but they really are quite different whether I'm using the external EQ and compression or not. The one thing they both have in common though is that 'deep' and 'ultra lo' switch - both seem to be a reasonably broad Q, low-mid cut rather than low end boosts of which I find of no use with my tonal preferences. If we are to get onto questionable terms, the Trace is a bit 'warmer' offering 'size and depth' with each note whereas the Ampeg retains the some of those qualities but is of a more 'bold and up front' nature generally offering a bit more low-mid in it's character which I feel is one of it's more endearing traits. 

 

All this is based on my opinion and less than perfect testing so, please make of it what you will but, I can't recall any V-Type reviews that have directly compared them to anything vintage or current. Does anyone have any comparative opinions they wish to share?

 

For my next gig, I might well take the Ampeg and see how it goes - I have little doubt it'll be awesome but I bet for the show after that, It'll be the V4 making a trip out. 😀

I have a V6, Mesa Big Block and EBS Fafner. 
 

I will try and do a detailed comparison later but in short, your description of the EQ of the V6 essentially matches mine.

[thodrik]

Anyhoo, I quick play through everything tonight. 

I am pretty familiar with all of the amps, having owned the Fafner and Walkabout since 2009, the V6 since 2013 and the Big Block since 2019. All played through the impractically big, loud and heavy Mesa 6x10 which I got for an absolute steal on this forum in 2018. Cab is pretty aggressively voiced in the upper mids so it might skew my views on the EQs of the amps a bit compared to someone using a Barefaced or Bergantino type cab.

V6: massive low end. Massive headroom. Very mid scooped with all settings at noon. Different tones are available but are not immediately apparent or obvious and can seem like guesswork, so if you are a 'I EQ to suit the room' kind of person it can be frustrating. I can easily lose twenty minutes finding a variety of tones which are great but not quite right. Sounds amazing when you finally get the power tube saturation but is only achievable at impractical volume levels which can make you physically ill. Doesn’t really do overdrive without a pedal at useable volume levels. 2 and 4 ohm operation means I am not chancing it with an 8 ohm cab which limits cab choice.

I really don't like the 'Deep' and 'Bright' character settings and think that they really interfere with the core tone so I never use them. Pulling the mid control changes the character of the amp into a less scooped, less subby, aggressive tone which I really like and I think cuts through better with live use. With the mid knob in the 'in' position the sound can be a bit scooped and bass heavy unless the Bass knob is backed off and Mids and Treble are added but the depth of sound is really exceptional.  

Despite the above nit-picks it is a truly exceptional amp. The level of headroom available means that it works really well with pedals. Not so much a ‘practical gigging amp’ as it is ‘an experience’ to play. I’ve used SVTs and other valve amps but this is still pretty unique, (though I would guess the Ashdown CTM amps would come close?). I probably would be happier with a V4 in terms of the lower levels of headroom.

One final thing, for an all valve amp I really don't find it particularly heavy. It is about the same weight as the Fafner and Big Block when both are in their rack cases. Much lighter than an SVT.

EBS Fafner: very flexible EQ, studio quiet in use, not massive sub lows. A bit like hearing your recorded and processed signal through a quality hi-fi. Huge treble capabilities, really good compressor. Drive actually ‘farts out’ sooner than I would like so runs better clean but it doesn't have the depth of sound of the V6. Not very ‘tubey’ in terms of feel or response compared to the V6 or Mesa heads because there is only a single tube in the 'drive' stage but the preamp is otherwise all solid state. However there is impressively fast transient response and exceptional clarity. Great slap sound and can do fingerstyle rock/blues/pop/metal, pretty much anything. Brilliant master volume taper so brilliant for gigging as really the character of the sound stays consistent across all volume levels and the amp never strains, compresses or adds in unwanted artefacts at high volume levels.

Generally, a bit weedy through an 8 ohm cab but still useable (I generally gig with a Peavey era Trace Elliot 1x15 - the 500 watt one).

Mesa Big Block 750: has a natural mid-heavy grunt. In terms of 'depth' of sound it is ahead of the EBS and behind the V6. The V6 has way more low bass. Huge levels of gain available and a much bigger gain sweep compared to the V6. EQ is pretty good, but less sophisticated than the Fafner or the Walkabout. Bass and treble controls generally need to stay at 11-1 in clock positions or the sound gets unbalanced. As a result it isn’t a tweaking amp, it is a turn on, set gain, set the mids and then turn up and play amp. Clean headroom is actually fairly limited relative to the power on tap but I think it was designed to be run 'pushed' and slightly hairy. Best bass fuzz I have every tried with footswitch-able drive.  Does ‘doom/fuzz rock’ perfectly. I wanted this amp for over ten years before I could find one second hand that I could afford. It has lived up to my expectations.

Plenty of volume through an 8 ohm cabinet, in fact it is probably more practical as with a 4 ohm cabinet controlling the master volume can be tricky. 

Mesa Walkabout: very low amounts of headroom but plenty enough when used with a big/efficient cab. Actually overdrives when pushed and behaves a bit more like a traditional valve amp than the V6 which is a clean machine. Awesome EQ but it becomes a bit redundant when you start to run out of headroom. Lacks the aggression and gain capabilities of the Big Block. Still love it.

My nephew just bought an Ampeg SVT 3 Pro, so I'm eager to compare it to the above heads. 

 

Overall, I don't have a 'favourite', but the Walkabout and Fafner have generally been the 'workhorse' amps. The Big Block was going to be the new workhorse, but the pandemic has slowed gigs immeasurably. The V6 was a impulse purchase because I thought that it was an absolute steal for the price I paid.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by thodrik

[VTypeV4]

9 hours ago, thodrik said:

Despite the above nit-picks it is a truly exceptional amp. The level of headroom available means that it works really well with pedals. Not so much a ‘practical gigging amp’ as it is ‘an experience’ to play. I’ve used SVTs and other valve amps but this is still pretty unique, (though I would guess the Ashdown CTM amps would come close?). I probably would be happier with a V4 in terms of the lower levels of headroom.
 

 

 

 

 

Wonderful reply there, Thodrik, thank you 😀. I've never owned MESA or EBS (although I do enjoy playing EBS) gear but looks like our views on the V-Type correlate pretty well - most notably, their 'size' of delivery - very special indeed. 

 

I had also hoped that the CTM range from Ashdown might be a nod to the V-Type but apparently not - they're seemingly more Matamp than anything according to threads on here. I did start a 'CTM vs V-Type' thread a few years back but it wasn't hugely popular and the general consensus was the two had little in common, sadly. On a positive note, I did get a reply from Ashdown some years ago regarding the black Tolex as fitted to my V4. To be clear, it doesn't need any restoration work, I was simply enquiring but they did say that if I ever needed anything for it that they would be more than happy to help with which I thought was a lovely gesture. ❤️

[VTypeV4]

 

The V4 in action at home - I can't really 'stretch it's legs' here but even so, it still sounds great. It's looking extra shiny after it had a good dust and clean last week - pics are on the Trace Elliot thread in the Gear Gallery section.