Gear.... why do I bother?

[NJE]

I did a gig last night with a shared backline and multiple bands playing and had a good night. It’s a long time since I have done this and it was really nice to see some other bands and bass players etc and everyone was really friendly and relaxed, a good gig!

We all shared an old Trace 1x15 combo which was the same amp I had when I was starting out, and it sounded good once I tweaked the 7 band eq. In fact everyone sounded good through it, it sounded like a nice fat bass tone, nothing not to like.

So I was basically sat there thinking all the bass players sounded good and punchy, with the same amp and different basses; Sire, Hohner, Ibanez Talman, and two Stingrays. None of them sounded bad, in fact in the room in a band context it was very difficult to tell the difference.

So why the hell do I worry so much? I can’t say my Aguilar sounded greatly better than an old Trace (it’s a lot lighter though) and my Stingray was probably no better sounding than the cheap Ibanez.

Yes I like a nice bass, but I am not going to delude myself I want nice basses for any more reason that it’s snobbery and aesthetics (and a little bit of playability to be fair). Although the Ibanez was very well made and felt great.

[Stylon Pilson]

You're right that in a live setting the nuances of tone get lost. Was the amp DI'd into the PA? Again, the sound guy can compensate for all but the most egregious bass tones and may be a contributing factor to why "it was very difficult to tell the difference" - he would be doing his best to normalise that variety of different basses to bring them back to a sound that suits the room.

The tone advantages of high quality gear really comes into its own in the studio. The build advantages of high quality gear is good all the time - the more effortless and enjoyable it is to play, the better your performance will be. Lightweight equipment is great for when you're lugging your own gear - I like the knowledge that I'm not going to be knackered or injured before I've even played the first note, and the knowledge that at the end of the night it's only going to take me 3 or 4 unstrenuous trips to get everything back in the car.

S.P.

[chris_b]

4 minutes ago, NJE said:

So why the hell do I worry so much?

If you find the answer to that question you've cracked it.

Gear is 10% of the equation and your creativity and technique, ie what you play, is 90%.

[Len_derby]

I've got to agree with you Nathan.

Your comment about the weight of your Aguilar is relevant though.

I have gradually moved over to light weight gear. Not only because of my age and increasing feebleness but it seems to get harder and harder to get decent parking anywhere near urban venues.

 

[Al Krow]

19 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Gear is 10% of the equation and your creativity and technique, ie what you play, is 90%.

+1^^

That short statement captures it all. Bravo Chris.

(Although a decent cab has got to be 10% by itself, right? So maybe fair to give our gear a bit more of the equation, but that's just quibbling at the margin!) 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Al Krow

[TheGreek]

Maybe you simply forgot how good Trace Elliot gear is and why many people are returning to the brand.

I advocate that people don't sell their TE because it doesn't do what they need it to - they sell it because there is lighter (not necessarily "better") equipment available.

[geoham]

+1 For the lighter gear argument. Many of my gigs are in city centre venues, and it’s not unknown to need to park half a mile away. A 1x12 and a class D head make it a single trip!

[Lozz196]

I did a gig yesterday and let the next band use my rig. The bassist had a great sound and told me afterwards that his bass was in for repair so he’d borrowed the bass he was using from his girlfriend, it apparently cost her £20. He said he liked it so much he might well carry on gigging it.

Yes, maybe we do all get a little over concerned about the minutest detail. I do agree with @Stylon Pilsonthough, in the studio the quality gear will shine through.

[NJE]

I know gear can be a bit more important with recording because of the nuances and clarity with recording equipment. And yes the lightweight gear makes a huge difference in a practical level so that’s really justified to me as well.

It just hammered home my thoughts and suspicions I have had for a while about playing live and being a general gigging musician. I could get a good sound from a cheap combo and a Harley Benton bass and that’s a cool thing in my opinion.

[gjones]

The Trace Elliot was a top line piece of kit back in the day. I could only dream of owning a TE combo and struggled by on a totally sh*te Carlsbro Stingray., that farted like a hippopotamus.

Recently I played gig through a TE G7 combo and it sounded great paired with my Precision. I've seen them going for £150 on Ebay and would love one but then I think about the weight and decide to stick with my 'light as a feather' head and cab.

[Barking Spiders]

when I did most of my gigs in my 20s the only bass I had was a slightly battered short-scale EB copy. Cant remember the make but the sound was good and it did the job required even if bandmates thought its looks let the set down 😊

[lownote]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

If you find the answer to that question you've cracked it.

Gear is 10% of the equation and your creativity and technique, ie what you play, is 90%.

Ah beg to differ ever so slightly.  I have spent 37 basses and 6 amp setups finding my exact tone.  Bass+ amp+ EQ, even strings, gives me a lovely tone I've been complemented on. I can't play for toffee.

Well, I can a bit - but I'd put it nearer 70/30, even 60/40.

In another universe I play sax.  To many a sax and its accessories are just a bit of bent tin with a few bits of plastic and a reed.  I spent a lot of money on a decent sax and a posh mouthpiece and ligature and reeds. Result:  my teacher loves my tone, like with tears in his eyes likes - he'd just like me to put the right notes in the right places. 70/30, even 60/40   

Edited March 3, 2019 by lownote12

[dmccombe7]

I got rid of my smaller TE bass head and 2x10 cab cause it just didn't do it for me at rehearsals never mind gigs. I just couldn't get a nice tone from it. That was last year.

I kind of inherited it in the studio from bands previous bass player who went to NZ.

Since then i've settled with Mesa Mpulse and Mesa 212 cab and its like night and day between the TE and Mesa. The Mesa feels like the tone is surrounding me and its a warm smooth bass tone compared to a thin weak TE tone even using the head with a different cab didn't help. Same bass was used. 

I do however remember playing the TE 410 combo with my Warwick in 80's and remember being very impressed with that combo but its so long ago i can't remember how it really sounded. I'm sure it had depth and clarity but that's the sound i was aiming for back then. It was a common bass tone to have doing covers. These days i like valve tubiness and warmth in my tone. Old skool tone. 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, lownote12 said:

Ah beg to differ ever so slightly.  I have spent 37 basses and 6 amp setups finding my exact tone.  Bass+ amp+ EQ, even strings, gives me a lovely tone I've been complemented on. I can't play for toffee.

Well, I can a bit - but I'd put it nearer 70/30, even 60/40.

In another universe I play sax.  To many a sax and its accessories are just a bit of bent tin with a few bits of plastic and a reed.  I spent a lot of money on a decent sax and a posh mouthpiece and ligature and reeds. Result:  my teacher loves my tone, like with tears in his eyes likes - he'd just like me to put the right notes in the right places. 70/30, even 60/40   

So 30% for gear and 70% for technique? Actually that sounds about right

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, lownote12 said:

Ah beg to differ ever so slightly.  I have spent 37 basses and 6 amp setups finding my exact tone.  Bass+ amp+ EQ, even strings, gives me a lovely tone I've been complemented on. I can't play for toffee.

That's OK. I made the numbers up to illustrate my point. 

37? I've only owned about 13 basses in over 50 years and that includes my buying and selling spree of 4 basses in 4 months a couple of years ago. I'm happy you have a sound you like. I'd never knock searching for "that" tone, but I bet if you had stopped at 10 and spent the rest on lessons, toffee wouldn't come into it and you'd be getting even more complements.

[Dan Dare]

This thread sums up the difference between what we, as bass nerds (oh, all right, aficionados), hear and like and what actually does the job in the 'real world'. As Nathan says, out in the room on the night, in a band context, everyone sounded good. I've done my share of playing about with gear in shops and spending considerable sums in search of 'that' sound, but in reality, the stuff I own and use (which I do enjoy playing through) is most likely satisfying only to me. Granted, someone who spends their entire time in a studio environment could make a stronger case for having the latest/best (if such a thing exists), but the rest of us would probably be just as well off with that old TE combo Nathan refers to. Schlepping it would be less easy, of course.

[stewblack]

I've told this story before. Did a gig in Portsmouth years ago, amp broke up with 3 or 4 songs + encores to go. Still made a noise but what an horrendous noise it was. A crackling distorted rumbling fart from which no notes could be discerned. 

I battled on just staying in time and widdling around the lowest notes. It was awful. 

Not only did no one in the audience notice but neither did my band mates. I learned a lesson that day. Now I know I buy different gear because I like to do so. No one but me really cares. 

[chris_b]

10 hours ago, stewblack said:

Not only did no one in the audience notice but neither did my band mates. I learned a lesson that day. Now I know I buy different gear because I like to do so. No one but me really cares.

This. . . . .

[dmccombe7]

Have to say my band notice the difference when i use my own gear or studio gear or even when i change from Jazz  to P/J bass.

P/J provides more depth. Same goes for my own amp. 

Dave

[SH73]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

This. . . . .

All basses seem to sound the same whenever I see a pub gig. No one seem to have tgeir own signature sound.

[chris_b]

2 minutes ago, SH73 said:

All basses seem to sound the same whenever I see a pub gig. No one seem to have tgeir own signature sound.

Surely that's to be expected at pub gig level? With so many treating these gigs as a hobby, a fun night out with their mates, they probably haven't put in the hours or effort to develop their own sound.

I see a lot of very talented players in a pub bands. As long as the band doesn't sound bad I'm happy. The usual problems I notice are the balance of the instruments, timing errors and poor song choices. For me, signature sound come a long way down the list.

[chris_b]

12 hours ago, stewblack said:

Not only did no one in the audience notice but neither did my band mates. I learned a lesson that day. Now I know I buy different gear because I like to do so. No one but me really cares. 

We have to care because we play better when we are happy with our sound. The bands I play in would notice but even if they don't know why, they will still appreciate better playing (from a happy bass player).

Some audiences will notice the good stuff. I have guys come up from the audience and ask about 5 string basses and compliment my sound, but that's probably the demographic of the bands I play in. Older music fans might understand a little more? Of the very few younger people who have come up to chat most have been musicians themselves.

IME in the better bands, what and how you play gets you the gig, not what you sound like.

[LeftyP]

I haven't had the chance to hear my bass guitar through a powerful amp or PA.

I use a small SubZero 35watt amp at home but, more often than not, use headphones to practice.  At church I'm squeezed into a corner between the keyboard and drums and the whole band is behind the PA speakers - mounted above our heads and in front of us.  My bass is DI'd into the church mixer and I get a monitor feed through a small speaker mounted on a mike stand in front of me.- - see photo.  When the whole band in playing I often struggle to hear the bass and play from memory, hoping it sounds OK.  I've had some nice comments from members of the congregation so I must be doing something right!

 

[oldslapper]

I would dispute the assertion that expensive basses come into their own in a studio. 

These days plug ins and programmes can shape the sound to pretty much what the engineer wants. 

Had last weekend in the studio with an artist recording onto logic. I used 2 very different basses on 1 track. And they both ended up sounding the same in the mix. 1 was a cheap bitsa P, the other an old (but much more expensive) Ali necked Kramer. 

I think the main differences for me in “expensive over less expensive“ is the comfort of reliability, due to build quality (generally speaking).                                   But then again QC is improving in mass produced cheaper gear, and old TE gear will survive Armageddon. 

IMHO of course. 🤪

[Guest MoJo]

I follow Andy Irvine on Instagram and every few days, he posts a video of himself playing some gorgeous instrument or other from his collection and I have to say they all sound pretty much the same with Andy playing them