Gear.... why do I bother?

[NJE]

I just think these days we are really fortunate, some of the really cheap gear is really playable and solid compared to when I started and the encore basses were just beyond awful.

We are also lucky that you can buy old amps and combos, that were great quality back in the 90s for little money. I have a early 150w Ashdown combo that’s superb and it was £90. It completely obliterates all the TC combos I have played (although again they are a lot lighter).

I guess it’s just a great thing that you can go and make music with little outlay if your on a budget. I love ‘nice quality’ kit but also love that I can go make a good sound with a Harley Benton and a £100 trace combo.

Good times!!

[Barking Spiders]

30 minutes ago, NJE said:

I just think these days we are really fortunate, some of the really cheap gear is really playable and solid compared to when I started and the encore basses were just beyond awful.

We are also lucky that you can buy old amps and combos, that were great quality back in the 90s for little money. I have a early 150w Ashdown combo that’s superb and it was £90. It completely obliterates all the TC combos I have played (although again they are a lot lighter).

I guess it’s just a great thing that you can go and make music with little outlay if your on a budget. I love ‘nice quality’ kit but also love that I can go make a good sound with a Harley Benton and a £100 trace combo.

Good times!!

IMO there's something really satisfying about going on stage with cheap and unassuming and even cr@p looking gear and tearing the place up. I think if you go on stage with expensive(looking) equipment you already have a lot to live up to and might come up short! Reminds me of the richer kids at school who had all the branded cricket clobber but would get out for a duck. Best band I ever played in I had my unbranded EB copy which I had picked up for about £30, the lead guitarist had a Hohner 'Strat' , the drummer had some beat up Premier 4 piece kit and the keyboardist/singer had a Casio from Dixons or some such. And we were no slouches either.

[tauzero]

5 hours ago, SH73 said:

All basses seem to sound the same whenever I see a pub gig. No one seem to have tgeir own signature sound.

Maybe that's the sound they all want?

[Stub Mandrel]

I've got an Orange Crush practice amp, all five of my basses sound great through it, just plug in and play...

I've got a 'stack' with a 150W Laney covered in sliders, pre-shape and para-Q. I can get them all to sound great through it, but it takes a few minutes fiddling to get a good setting for each bass.

[GuyR]

.Upgrading to better quality equipment than you currently own has been scientifically proven, over & over, both to improve your playing and to make you happier and more productive in all aspects of your existence.

There is no flaw to your musical understanding or deficiency in your technique that cannot be overcome by simply buying a new bass and amp. This effect is enhanced if the new arrival is in addition to your existing equipment, rather than as a replacement, and further optimised if the incoming equipment is purchased on finance

[geoham]

6 hours ago, GuyR said:

.Upgrading to better quality equipment than you currently own has been scientifically proven, over & over, both to improve your playing and to make you happier and more productive in all aspects of your existence.

There is no flaw to your musical understanding or deficiency in your technique that cannot be overcome by simply buying a new bass and amp. This effect is enhanced if the new arrival is in addition to your existing equipment, rather than as a replacement, and further optimised if the incoming equipment is purchased on finance

While the comedy value of this isn’t lost on me, I’d argue there is at least a little truth in it -though maybe less so than in days of yore when budget gear sometimes verged on being unplayable.

If a shiny new purchase encourages someone to play more, surely that’s a good thing? The same logic can be applied widely... does your new gym clothes make you want to go to the gym more, or does your new camera lens encourage you to take more pictures?

Many hobbies cost money - golf-club memberships, home-brewing equipment, entry fees to Star Trek conventions.... whatever your thing is, I’m sure there’s money to be spent. If you work hard to earn your money, and buying something doesn’t prevent you from feeding the kids or paying the mortgage - then go ahead and enjoy yourself.

Obviously there is a pretty steep diminishing returns factor to consider, not to mention that people should be weary about getting in to debt to fund music gear.

Finally, be thankful that we are lucky enough to play affordable instruments that are mass produced to a high standard. I know a violinist who has an instrument worth as much as my house, and a classical guitarist who was ridiculed while studying for his masters for not having a suitable instrument.His parents ended up shelling out a tidy sum for one. There’s undoubtedly a huge amount amount of elitism in the classical world, and you won’t be taken seriously without spending thousands. I don’t think we have the same problem with bass guitar.

George

[Dan Dare]

So right, George. I have a friend who is a highly rated violin maker (people in some of the big London orchestras play his instruments). He has to "antique" them when he makes them, because nobody will be seen playing a new instrument.

[BigRedX]

If the bass is going through the PA, depending on the point at which it is DI'd the contribution of the amp will be at best minimal and that of the cabs irrelevant. 

[Stub Mandrel]

11 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

So right, George. I have a friend who is a highly rated violin maker (people in some of the big London orchestras play his instruments). He has to "antique" them when he makes them, because nobody will be seen playing a new instrument.

Not like (some) bass players then 🙂

[Lozz196]

1 minute ago, BigRedX said:

If the bass is going through the PA, depending on the point at which it is DI'd the contribution of the amp will be at best minimal and that of the cabs irrelevant. 

Agreed, what the audience hear is unlikely to be what we hear on stage. But, and a big but for me - no, not been on the lard sandwiches - if I have a good sound on stage I find I enjoy playing more. I then hope that that enjoyment will translate into my playing, so my performance hopefully will be better.

[Stylon Pilson]

34 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Agreed, what the audience hear is unlikely to be what we hear on stage. But, and a big but for me - no, not been on the lard sandwiches - if I have a good sound on stage I find I enjoy playing more. I then hope that that enjoyment will translate into my playing, so my performance hopefully will be better.

Agree with this. On Saturday night I used a small folding camping table to raise my cab by 30cm. This allowed me to hear myself better on-stage, and then we played what I think was possibly our best gig so far. Coincidence? Possibly. I'll let you know after our next gig.

S.P.

Edit: for those who are wondering where you can get hold of this amazing piece of bass kit, it's here. 50kg weight limit with a footprint of 64x42cm.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Stylon Pilson

[Linus27]

Wasn't it Alex James who said something along the lines that bass is like a pencil, you just need to find a pencil you find comfortable to use. Sort of insinuating that they all do the same job and not really any different. I tend to agree with this somewhat, certainly live. In fact I bet it would be pretty impossible to identify which bass is used if a bunch of tracks were posted and then asked the question, Precision, Jazz, Stingray, Thunderbird, Telecaster bass, Warwick etc.?

[chris_b]

17 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

Wasn't it Alex James who said something along the lines that bass is like a pencil, you just need to find a pencil you find comfortable to use. Sort of insinuating that they all do the same job and not really any different.

This.

The various shoot-outs we've done at the SE Bass Bashes have proved to me that you can make 90% of the gear on the market today sound good enough for any gig. Being picky is seen as a good thing, but IMO it is a distraction from the real job we have, learning to be better bass players.

[Linus27]

6 minutes ago, chris_b said:

This.

The various shoot-outs we've done at the SE Bass Bashes have proved to me that you can make 90% of the gear on the market today sound good enough for any gig. Being picky is seen as a good thing, but IMO it is a distraction from the real job we have, learning to be better bass players.

For me, Fender make the best pencils and even though I prefer the look of the Precision pencil, I find the Jazz pencil suits me the most. I don't even try any other pencils now, I have two Jazz pencils, an AVRI75 and a Japanese 66 RI and two Precision pencils, a Mike Dirnt Mk.1 and a FSR 70's RI. They are all solid, reliable and feel the most comfortable to me.

[Marc S]

21 hours ago, NJE said:

I just think these days we are really fortunate, some of the really cheap gear is really playable and solid compared to when I started and the encore basses were just beyond awful.

We are also lucky that you can buy old amps and combos, that were great quality back in the 90s for little money. I have a early 150w Ashdown combo that’s superb and it was £90. It completely obliterates all the TC combos I have played (although again they are a lot lighter).

I guess it’s just a great thing that you can go and make music with little outlay if your on a budget. I love ‘nice quality’ kit but also love that I can go make a good sound with a Harley Benton and a £100 trace combo.

Good times!!

Good times indeed. When I think back to some of the awful, cheap basses and amps that were around, and affordable back when I was first playing.... eugh! makes me shudder - especially that Kay Rick copy I had

Re the difference between basses - I've had some absolutely wonderful (for the money) Squiers - but I guess I've kept my more expensive Fenders, because they just have the edge when it comes to the sound I want - but also because they have been just that little bit more comfortable to play. Some of them perhaps being two or three times the price, and maybe not 2 or 3 times as comfortable, granted

Re the amp - yes TE gear was superbly built, great sounding gear back in the day, and still sounds great now. But for me, I've spent my dosh on getting as light weight amp heads and cabs as I can. As you age, it becomes ever more important. Especially as I still don't have a roadie!  I just can't see myself lugging the sort of gear I used to own in the 80's around again, especially for those gigs where you're parked half a mile away (we all get one or two of those once in a while)

[Soledad]

I'm a Trace fan - I grew up on big heavy rigs and that was normal up to a few years ago, maybe more than a few but recent. I reckon there have been a very few landmark bass systems ever: The legendary Acoustic 360 - if you're old enough you'll remember the first time you plugged in... FFS  Then for me TE. OK< Ampeg needs to be in there. I certainly agree Trace are heavy lumps, but boy do they deliver.

I wonder and hope - is TE gear due a bit of a comeback?

[mangotango]

I did a gig last Summer where as with the OP, an old TE combo was provided as the backline, . It made me sound like everyone else who played and everyone that I've ever heard playing through Trace, irrespective of the bass that they used. And no matter how much I messed with the EQ and gain, I still had this gritty, mids-heavy "crunch" sound. Maybe the speaker was past its best....but trust me, no clean sound was available that day.

I do agree that bassists will usually sound pretty much like themselves, irrespective of the rig involved. For me, (having just spent a lot on two basses that will do what I want), it's about how good I feel about the sound I'm making, and that helps me to create music. I play better when I'm happy with what I'm doing, and being happy depends on how much I like playing the instrument and also the sound that I'm getting.

Without any disrespect to an audience, I totally get that they will rarely appreciate any variation in the sound; but they might appreciate the improvement in my playing that comes directly from feeling good about my gear.

[Soledad]

21 hours ago, NJE said:

some of the really cheap gear is really playable and solid compared to when I started and the encore basses were just beyond awful.

Agree very much. Got someone a Yamaha 370 recently and I was blown away with a 100 quid (S/H) bass. My first was a short scale Vox, it was beyond awful and virtually unplayable. Same with rigs - smaller, lighter, more efficient, big EQ ranges etc, and often a house system to go into anyway.

 

15 minutes ago, mangotango said:

And no matter how much I messed with the EQ and gain, I still had this gritty, mids-heavy "crunch" sound

Yes, you're right - i think as you drive the TE harder it resolves into its sound. Also maybe the pre-shape was in? One fifteen won't do it any favours, I reckon it needs more speakers to deliver the tonal range it is capable of. I used to hook a 410 to an all-valve combo (with 15 in) - that made a huge difference. I think maybe the onboard 15 is just having to do too much work.

[Stub Mandrel]

59 minutes ago, Marc S said:

Good times indeed. When I think back to some of the awful, cheap basses and amps that were around, and affordable back when I was first playing.... eugh! makes me shudder - especially that Kay Rick copy I had

My first electric K-2T - body is undisguised plywood! I had to loose the terrible 'sub-bigsby' and fit a tune-o-matic bridge.

You Tube is full of videos of people raving  about the pickups!

[Stub Mandrel]

40 minutes ago, Soledad said:

I'm a Trace fan - I grew up on big heavy rigs and that was normal up to a few years ago, maybe more than a few but recent. I reckon there have been a very few landmark bass systems ever: The legendary Acoustic 360 - if you're old enough you'll remember the first time you plugged in... FFS  Then for me TE. OK< Ampeg needs to be in there. I certainly agree Trace are heavy lumps, but boy do they deliver.

I wonder and hope - is TE gear due a bit of a comeback?

I always wanted a TE rig. That's why I got the Laney - lots of controls and overload LEDs, a sort of poor man's Trace Elliot 🙂

[NancyJohnson]

I have a mate who was ('back in the day') reasonably well moneyed, he'd been playing guitar for a while.  He'd never really nailed his desired tone until, around twenty years ago (maybe more, maybe less), two things happened.  On a trip to the US he came across a guitar shop that was closing down and he bought three US Jacksons.  One of these was a Strat type thing, single pickup, volume control.  When he got back here, for some reason he traded one of the Jacksons for a Fender Twin Reverb.  And boom, there it was.  Over the following years, all the gear came and went - I lost count of the guitars he owned - now the guy owns a handful of Gibsons, an EVH thing, some other bits and pieces - but he admits he never sounded as good as when he was just plugging the Jackson into the Twin Reverb.

We're all as guilty, I believe I had my lightbulb moment twenty odd years ago when I first discovered Line 6 Bass POD and pushed it into the effects return on an Ashdown MAG combo.  I had one patch I adored and EVERYTHING sounded great through it; it was like Geddy and Mr Burnel had a demon baby.  Ever since then I think all I've wanted was to emulate that tone.  Everyone who used my rig at gigs wanted that tone.  Nothing I pushed into that set up sounded bad.  Sure Tech21 stuff satiated that desire.  I'm hoping that the Darkglass A/O head (3-4 weeks) will do it, but I'm just too proud/stupid to even consider going back.  My mantra has always been trade up, never look back.

 

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

 My mantra has always been trade up, never look back.

Yep. Always upgrade.

[Soledad]

4 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

he traded one of the Jacksons for a Fender Twin Reverb.

My best mate guitar player died very young, but we went together to check out a '62 Strat in Northampton (this would be early 70s). He got it back and plugged it into his Fender Twin R and .... good grief, the best ever. Had JBLs in it too - one mega guitar amp. And so loud too. It had those pre-decimalisation watts in it, you know, the proper ones.:)

btw, That's what Trace put in their heads, watts, not whats.