Markaudio linear array systems

[Happy Jack]

Almost exactly a year ago, I started a thread about the Mark Audio AC4 PA system. Silvie and I were sufficiently impressed with it that we sold off almost all our other PA kit plus several Barefaced cabs to fund purchasing a pair of them.

Sad to relate, that thread lasted less than a week before having to be put down to avoid further pointless pain and suffering, but some good stuff did emerge.

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/321292-markaudio-linear-array-systems/

So ... how did Year #1 go?

The first thing to note is that I've played about 50 gigs in that year, but the AC4s were 'only' used at 27 of them. About a dozen gigs were played with bands who strongly preferred to use their own PA rather than experiment (as they saw it) with my radical new one, and I've increasingly opted to use a simpler, lighter vox-only approach for smaller gigs for my covers band and for pretty much all gigs for my rockabilly band.

That said, 27 gigs with three different bands at over 20 different venues is enough of a sample size to allow us to draw some conclusions. All gigs were at pubs & clubs with an immense variation in room size and crowd size.

The next post will be the basic Review of the Mark Audio AC4 units after a year of practical use, the questions that people tend to ask first.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Happy Jack

[Happy Jack]

SOUND

These units continue to sound excellent, and to manage to sound good in pretty much any pub or club environment . I should mention that I have yet to use them outdoors. The debate about the 'hole in the middle' will not go away. At low to very low volumes it is certainly possible to convince yourself that the midrange is lacking. As soon as you start to turn up the volume, that stops being an issue (assuming that there is really an issue in the first place).

The sound quality and presence is good enough to withstand schoolboy errors in the setup, like failing to switch on one side. Yes, even with a legend like me it happens. We played an entire set without realising that only one side of the PA was actually operating - that's four experienced musicians on stage plus Silvie out front - which to me implies that the sound is pretty bloody good.

POWER

We have repeatedly played the George IV in Chiswick, a very large pub which gets absolutely rammed, with the whole band (drums = kick only) going through the AC4s for sound support. Playing to >200 people the Output controls on the AC4s have never yet got above 11 o'clock.

We all know that these things aren't linear, but it's obvious that there is a massive amount of headroom available on tap in that situation.

RELIABILITY

Nothing has yet broken, nothing has yet failed. Each problem we have so far encountered has been traced back to user error, usually me but not always so!

If we use them exactly as Marco de Virgiliis intended then there's a fair amount of assembly and pluggage required. Each side comprises a 2x10 sub (which can be placed either upright or flat - it has two pole sockets), a telescopic pole mount, a steel bracket to sit atop the pole, a 4-piece linear module to hang from the bracket, and a second 4-piece linear module to hang from the first one!

It's all bolted together using (basically) enormous wingnuts, and then plugged together using multiple patch cables. In fairness, the majority of these cables never need to be unplugged.

All of this kit comes in a set of what can best be described (in gigbag terms) as matched designer luggage. The bags are some of the nicest, prettiest, over-engineered, and thoroughly over-the-top things I've seen in a month of Sundays. Plus they take up a silly amount of storage space at a gig.

Frankly, the whole process is a bit of a PITA, and only really practical at a gig for my 4-piece covers band because we also have Silvie (at every gig) acting as our PA roadie. She sets up the two AC4s while I do the desk and the cabling, the drummer does his kit, and the guitarists scratch their derrières.

The next post will be the extended Review of the Mark Audio AC4 units after a year of practical use, the questions that people tend to ask second!

Edited March 3, 2019 by Happy Jack

[Happy Jack]

 BUILD QUALITY

Riddled with minor irritants! Remember - everything still works fine. But the 2x10 subs are already badly scratched and chipped near their bases, despite only ever being moved around by their careful owners, and carried to/from gigs in a luxury MPV rather than an old Transit.

Compared to this my old, much-maligned Barefaced cabs with their famously dodgy and inadequate finish (which I rather liked, BTW) held up brilliantly.

The damage could obviously be mitigated by using padded covers, and I believe that I have already mentioned the astonishing luxury gigbags for the linear array units. But the subs come with NO covers, and if you buy the approved Mark Audio covers as an extra they are overpriced pieces of thin, unpadded nylon. What's the Italian for "scoring an own goal", Silvie?

I mentioned that the second linear module hangs from the first. What I didn't make clear is that - before the wingnuts come into play - the top of the second unit has to be 'clipped' to the bottom of the first unit. This involves bending the plastic wings outwards momentarily as they pass over the bottom of the unit. These have NOT broken, but they do feel vulnerable.

The wingnuts I keep talking about have large, comfortable finger grips, but they also have stupidly long threaded shafts - about 4cm. Since they can't do their job properly unless they're screwed in properly, that's one helluva lot of wingnut spinning. Within the first month I'd taken a hacksaw to the critical ones and halved their length.

The overall impression in this section is that Mark Audio did very little actual road-testing under live band conditions before launching this range. These issues were all very easy fixes.

USEABILITY

Some aspects of the AC4s practicality have already surfaced in this review, and have probably given a negative feel to the thing. In practice, these are great real-world units.

The 2x10 powered subs are as heavy as any other 2x10 powered sub, certainly heavier than a 2x10 Markbass cab (I have one), but the weight and centre of gravity are low down and nothing needs to be hoisted up and placed on a tripod made of scaffolding poles. Any cheap LIDL-type folding trolley is perfectly adequate to take each sub across the car park and through the venue with no risk to my notoriously weak back.

The linear arrays not only look very cool but also completely fail to blot out the room's view of the band or the band's view of the room. Until you've played with one of these systems, you don't really appreciate just how much you are currently peering out between two bloody big PA tops.

Each sub has a dedicated 1/4" instrument socket for you to plug your bass into. If your entire bass rig should crumble and die in the middle of a song, you can be back and playing in the same bar. Was that not a great use of ambiguity? Eh?

And you can unclip as many or as few of the linear array elements as you like and point them in different directions, creating instant foldback on the cheap if you need it. You'll need longer patch cables for this, mind.

The next post will be the outcome of this Review of the Mark Audio AC4 units after a year of practical use, the things we've learned and what we've done about the problems.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Happy Jack

[Happy Jack]

WHEN TO USE THEM

We experimented with putting the whole band through the PA and having that as the only amplification. The guitarists used sim pedals (I imagine there is a proper name for these - @MacDaddy ), the drummer used an electric kit, and the band used unclipped linear array elements as on-stage foldback.

We tried that twice I think. We agreed that it worked under the right conditions but it was a very steep learning curve for us all, and ultimately was more faffing about than it was worth.

Anyway, we could only do that at small venues where the drummer was content to use the electric kit, which is absolutely (and understandably) not his first choice. As soon as a live kit comes into the equation, IMHO you can't play a pub gig without proper backline.

This system works best IME used as a sound reinforcement system. We set the band up as if for a vox-only PA gig, then hang vocal mics in front of the guitar combos, a drum mic in front of the kick, and take a DI from the bass amp. The entire process adds literally five minutes to our set-up time and, once done, means that the whole band is going through the PA with no grief at all.

There is no real impact on the desk. Instead of three vocal channels we need seven. Under extreme conditions we might need to hang a pair of overheads for the kit, taking us to nine channels (two with phantom power). There are few gig-worthy desks that can't cope with that requirement.

HOW TO USE THEM

Like any other reasonably complex operation, it helps to have a pattern to follow, and it certainly helps if you can simplify the process.

At the venue the first things laid down are a pair of small Auralex Gramma pads which - conveniently - have the same footprint as an AC4. Apart from isolating the powered sub from wooden dance floors, the Gramma pad also raises the bottom of the cab clear of beer spillage.

Obviously the subs go onto the pads next, followed by the arrival of the Body Bag. This is a padded gig bag for gear measuring roughly 5' x 2' x 1' and it's a 2-person lift. As this is manoeuvred through a crowded pub, the law requires that some punter will say, 'Ere, you got a body in there? before collapsing in self-satisfied giggles. Live with it.

Inside the Body Bag are the two poles, and the two ready-assembled linear array units which can be hung directly on the poles. No wingnut twiddling, no plastic bending, virtually no pluggage. We have devised our own solution to the protection problem - see EVIDENCE (below).

Silvie puts the AC4s together while I set up the mixer and cabling, and she checks all the connections and settings. Then I double-check all the connections and settings before switching on. Then we both check all the connections and settings. It seems to work.

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Happy Jack

[Happy Jack]

PRACTICAL ISSUES

For foldback, each of the three singers has a small personal monitor unit on his stand. The drummer has two guitar combos to his right and my bass cab to his left so he can hear the band fine, but sometimes complains that he struggles to hear the lead vocals. I have the drummer between me and the guitar combos, but they are also coming out of the AC4 top to my left which means that I rarely have a problem.

It's hardly worth working up a foldback solution through the PA when the sole problem is that one out of four occasionally has a slight problem. Having no full-on foldback system is a massive win at setup and virtually eradicates feedback.

Speaking of feedback, because all the high frequencies are coming through very directional 5" linear array units, it takes a spectacular level of incompetence to get the main FoH sound to feed back. I can quite happily have my vocal mic alongside the linear array and less than three feet from it, and know that there won't be a problem.

On the other hand, those powered subs make absolutely great drinks stands, especially for drunken dancers. If one sub is alongside a wall, then the gap between the PA pole and the wall is also a truly wonderful coat storage system. Don't ask me how I know these things.

REGRETS?

I've had a few. But then again, too few to mention.

I'm happy that we bought these units, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy them again. If the things I've complained about (above) have not yet been remedied then I'd certainly drive a harder bargain on price, because there's no doubt that Mark Audio have issues with these units that could easily have been fixed and should by now be sorted.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Happy Jack

[Happy Jack]

EVIDENCE

The George IV (Chiswick) last May, crowded & noisy.

https://youtu.be/CWkTXZeP8Ig

******************

The Victoria Club (Aylesbury) last July, boomy stage, very large room, thin crowd.

https://youtu.be/bwHuXxN-hiQ

Note how 'open' the stage seems without big PA tops and with no floor monitors.

******************

The Old Hall Tavern (Chingford) in January, very large L-shaped room, thin crowd.

https://youtu.be/-leIccu_1ew

From the conversation you can hear in the background, it's obvious that we're not blasting out a deafening volume.

******************

Solving the problem of keeping the AC4 tops fully-assembled, but still protected:

Edited March 3, 2019 by Happy Jack

[wateroftyne]

Interesting review - thank you. It sounds a bit underpowered in that first clip, though..?

[EBS_freak]

Not for me - but thanks for the in-depth review! But then again, I don't think I would use them in the manner in which you would - I'm all about everything through the PA, no backline!

[Silvia Bluejay]

43 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

It sounds a bit underpowered in that first clip, though..?

A combination of the camera being placed high on a ledge and far from the band, and the fact that, in a pub in the middle of Chiswick, you can't turn up the music so loud that it pins punters to the wall. (Either the Council or the neighbours will make sure you don't do it again!) It was plenty loud on the dance floor.

[Happy Jack]

Partly because we're really quite good at what we do, and partly because we get our volume levels right, the George IV have given us five gigs in 2019.

Paid gigs at popular venues are the best possible metric.

On balance, Michael, I reckon there's nowt wrong with the volume in that clip. 

[wateroftyne]

1 minute ago, Happy Jack said:

Partly because we're really quite good at what we do, and partly because we get our volume levels right, the George IV have given us five gigs in 2019.

Paid gigs at popular venues are the best possible metric.

On balance, Michael, I reckon there's nowt wrong with the volume in that clip. 

No need to be so defensive. I can only comment on what I can hear in the clip, which is... not much.

I get that it might be fine on the dancefloor, in which case I'd suggest the clip is probably not a good representation.

[Happy Jack]

Defensive is my middle name, Michael. I'm famous for it.

That, and my paranoia.

[Silvia Bluejay]

11 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I get that it might be fine on the dancefloor, in which case I'd suggest the clip is probably not a good representation.

It's an excellent representation of the band's ability to help the pub keep the Council from the door. 

[wateroftyne]

2 minutes ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

It's an excellent representation of the band's ability to help the pub keep the Council from the door. 

But this thread is a PA review..?

Apologies - I’ll say nowt next time.

[Silvia Bluejay]

This thread is a PA review. The vids show that system being used in different scenarios.

[wateroftyne]

3 minutes ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

This thread is a PA review. The vids show that system being used in different scenarios.

Yes, it certainly does that 🙂

[EBS_freak]

Im now completely confused.

[Silvia Bluejay]

You needn't be - no additional relevant info has been added to Jack's review...

[CameronJ]

I won’t comment on sound as the camera audio + YouTube compression etc will never give an accurate sense of what’s its like in the room, but based on aesthetics alone I really like the rig.

Ignoring the infamous yellow MarkBass cones which I’m not totally enamoured with, the slim array “tops” are glorious. Definitely gives the stage a much more open feel which I like from an audience’s perspective but which I imagine also feels quite nice as a performer on stage.

[P-T-P]

On 03/03/2019 at 19:30, Happy Jack said:

We experimented with putting the whole band through the PA and having that as the only amplification. The guitarists used sim pedals (I imagine there is a proper name for these - @MacDaddy ), the drummer used an electric kit, and the band used unclipped linear array elements as on-stage foldback.

We tried that twice I think. We agreed that it worked under the right conditions but it was a very steep learning curve for us all, and ultimately was more faffing about than it was worth.

 

Bringing an old thread back to life with a question on this topic. If the monitoring aspect was taken out of the equation - i.e. just using the system for FOH to run the whole band - do you think it would cope in most scenarios? We stopped using backline a couple of years ago and are all using in ear monitors. Bass, guitars, backing track, kick drum and and overhead plus a couple of vocals. Happy with our sound, increasingly unhappy with hefting a massive sub around. I imagine we play similar sized venues as yourself.

Any experience of the ERGO system in comparison? 

[Happy Jack]

Given that the two-and-a-half years since this review included the entire Covid 5h1tstorm, we've still managed to gain considerable experience with using the Mark Audio set-up.

 

A lot of other stuff has happened in that time.

• The Junkyard Dogs became a 3-piece;
• Damo & The Dynamites (3-piece r'n'r outfit) became successful;
• And the real game-changer ... we started using an XR18 wireless mixer.

Net result is that we now have much broader experience with the Mark Audio, and we always route (almost) the entire band through the PA at every single gig. By that, I mean we mic up a small combo for the guitarist and I run a DI from my bass rig. The average age of the five musicians in my two bands is 60 and none of us have much experience with IEMs - although I'm dabbling with them out of sheer curiosity - and trying to introduce them would cause WAY more trouble than it's worth.

 

The only exception to the through-the-PA thang is that we don't bother to fully mic up the drums unless we're using the leccy kit at a small venue, but in that case we wouldn't be using the MarkAudio. Kick drum always, and sometimes I'll stick a condenser over the drummer's left shoulder, but a 7-piece drumkit mic-set is something I'll start using only if we end up playing really big venues. 😉

 

In terms of what @P-T-P asks, the outcome is that we have pretty much abandoned monitoring. The drummers in both bands sing (or try to) so I'll usually kit them out with a personal monitor, a Wharfdale WPM-1 or similar, if they ask me to, but that's it. On-stage volumes are low enough that we can hear the band's overall sound plus our own voices with little difficulty. That leaves the Mark Audio free to do what it does.

 

Will it cope? Oh yes. To get the best out of the system, you really do need to have it fairly cranked. At the George IV for example the sound can be a bit light on the mids for the first two sets, but when the dancefloor is crammed for the third set and the volume can go up, the Mark Audio sounds simply righteous.

 

In all this discussion, though, it's important not to lose sight of the Mark Audio's USP. If I played in bands with fit young roadies then I'd be perfectly happy with a pair of enormous f***-off RCFs or Mackies, in fact I might well prefer them to the Mark Audio. The reason we sold our RCFs was that a 735 mk.4 weighs a whisker short of 20kgs and lifting that up by 1.5 metres twice at each gig, and then lifting both down again later, seemed like a bloody stupid thing for someone my age with a dodgy back to be doing. I can roll the Mark Audio base units into any venue on a folding sack trolley. The only lifting is getting them into and out of the van.

 

This might be the moment to mention that I MUCH prefer describing 'lifting 43lbs by five feet' ... I'm not really a metric person.

 

The improved visuals are very helpful too, but that's not why we bought them.

 

[P-T-P]

12 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

*all the above*

 

 

Very helpful thanks. 

[Silvia Bluejay]

Yes to what @Happy Jacksays. Only thing I'd like to add is that, at least post-covid, I'm noticing a trend in all kinds of venues towards asking bands to be quieter than ever, or, as in our case (both bands), being very happy and grateful that we're not too loud.

 

Consequently, we use our Mark Audio system rarely. I must say, unless the system is a. in a large room full of people, preferably all dancing, and b. cranked up to almost max, I really, really don't like its sound.

Normally, it has far to much treble coming from the linear arrays and far too much very low-frequency bass coming from the subs. No mids worth a damn! So the result is that the bass almost always sounds like an indistinct rumble no matter how savagely I EQ its channel and the PA system output, while the guitars will pierce your ears (the linear arrays are at exactly the right height to do that!).

 

From the point of view of the sound, I'm far happier working with our cheapo, lightweight passive PA speakers which even we oldies can lift up 1.5m/5', considering that we usually play in small venues. The only drawback is that they look horrible, and often hide one or more band members from the main camera, depending on where I am allowed to position myself.

[P-T-P]

On 13/09/2021 at 14:45, Silvia Bluejay said:

Yes to what @Happy Jacksays. Only thing I'd like to add is that, at least post-covid, I'm noticing a trend in all kinds of venues towards asking bands to be quieter than ever, or, as in our case (both bands), being very happy and grateful that we're not too loud.

 

Consequently, we use our Mark Audio system rarely. I must say, unless the system is a. in a large room full of people, preferably all dancing, and b. cranked up to almost max, I really, really don't like its sound.

Normally, it has far to much treble coming from the linear arrays and far too much very low-frequency bass coming from the subs. No mids worth a damn! So the result is that the bass almost always sounds like an indistinct rumble no matter how savagely I EQ its channel and the PA system output, while the guitars will pierce your ears (the linear arrays are at exactly the right height to do that!).

 

From the point of view of the sound, I'm far happier working with our cheapo, lightweight passive PA speakers which even we oldies can lift up 1.5m/5', considering that we usually play in small venues. The only drawback is that they look horrible, and often hide one or more band members from the main camera, depending on where I am allowed to position myself.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Aside from the weight of current sub, as the bass player, I find it also ads a massive amount of dub-style bottom end that means the bass gets lost in the mix.

[EBS_freak]

17 minutes ago, P-T-P said:

 

Thanks for the feedback. Aside from the weight of current sub, as the bass player, I find it also ads a massive amount of dub-style bottom end that means the bass gets lost in the mix.

Thats what HPF is for!