Warwick confusion

[Soledad]

Could someone help me understand the heirarchy of goodness please. I see the RockBass (Far East I believe), the Pro, I see $$ comes up a bit. What is actually what, I'm confused.

[LeftyJ]

The $$ ("double buck") indicates a version with two humbuckers. 

 

As far as hierarchy goes, there's:

- Custom Shop (I think they refer to them as Masterbuilt now). Crazy prices, crazy cool instruments too;

- (German) Pro Series. Production instruments from the German factory. Also referred to as Teambuilt;

- Rockbass. Asian instruments, with the same hardware and electronics as their German counterparts. 

There was a Chinese pro series for a while too, but everything imported is now called Rockbass. 

[Soledad]

3 hours ago, LeftyJ said:

The $$ ("double buck") indicates a version with two humbuckers. 

Thank you for sorting that out - I didn't have a clue on that. Seems to me the RockBass is half (or even less) the German built and if they are all the same components etc does it matter where it was put together? Or is it more about woods and finishes I wonder.
SO, views on Rockbass v German would be welcome if poss please. Makes me wonder the Pro 5 fretless I missed at a little under £500 was a bit of an oversight on my part... haha.

[anzoid]

2 hours ago, Soledad said:

Thank you for sorting that out - I didn't have a clue on that. Seems to me the RockBass is half (or even less) the German built and if they are all the same components etc does it matter where it was put together? Or is it more about woods and finishes I wonder.
SO, views on Rockbass v German would be welcome if poss please. Makes me wonder the Pro 5 fretless I missed at a little under £500 was a bit of an oversight on my part... haha.

LeftyJ has got it apart from the older Pro Series - 2011 to 2013 - these were Korean rather than Chinese and used (as far as I can work out...) the same body woods as their German compatriots but had maple necks. The electronics were the same as the German models - MEC Gold pups and preamps. Rumour is they were discontinued and production moved back to Germany because they were competing just a little bit too well with the German models of the same era. They originally retailed around the £900-£1,000 mark as best I can discover.

I've just bought a Thumb Pro Series bolt-on fretless and it has an Ovangkol body (with high polish (poly?) finish), maple neck with tiger-stripe ebony fingerboard and is a seriously good bass for the money it cost me. If a fretted Korean pro series Thumb came up I'd buy it in a heart beat, and probably be willing to pay a couple hundred more than I payed for the fretless... yeah, got (I think) a bargain.

Edited March 5, 2019 by anzoid

[Soledad]

38 minutes ago, anzoid said:

LeftyJ has got it apart from the older Pro Series - 2011 to 2013

OK, thanks - gets a little more complicated then. So Rockbass will be same hardware etc, but inferior woods, and far east build - ? 

Pro will be German or Korean depending on date, but is same hardware, similar quality woods but if Korean, maple necks - ?

German Pro is the one to go for short of limited editions/custom shop - ?
 

And is there an easy way of I/D-ing the Korean pro from the german one, other than knowing date - is it just and always maple neck?

The ovangkol fretless sounds very good - it's an excellent body wood I think, a shade brighter than bubinga I feel, and looks nicer IMO.

Thanks for help. If I have got the baove wrong please fix.

[anzoid]

10 hours ago, Soledad said:

And is there an easy way of I/D-ing the Korean pro from the german one, other than knowing date - is it just and always maple neck?

I think you'd need to look at the serial number the Korean Pros should (I think, and someone may correct me...) start "WPS". There's a Thumb fretless on eBay at the moment: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warwick-Pro-Series-Thumb-BO-4-String-fretless-Bass-Guitar-2011/113415570013 and there's a picture of the back of the headstock that shows the serial number format. The 11 at the end is year of manufacture, so for a Korean Pro Series you'd be looking for 11, 12 or 13. (That one is more than twice what I paid for mine... so not sure if I just got an absolutely amazing deal, or that one is seriously over-priced...)

The original Rockbass series had some good basses but the looks weren't all that and they had one piece bridges. My Corvette was active but ate batteries and had other issues so was returned for an ESP LTD 5-string (this was back in 2010). I had a modern Rockbass Corvette passive 4-string a little while back and it was very very good, and I'm not sure why I sold it really. On Thomann you can buy Warwick hardware and you can but a cheap bridge which is of un-specified material and a brass bridge which costs about three times the price. At a guess the Rockbasses will use the cheap bridges and the German Warwicks will probably use brass bridges - though whether that would be Master Built & Team Built... I read somewhere (sorry, no link...) too that whilst all Warwicks use MEC pickups (which were developed in-house by Warwick after things fell through with EMG, related to the history of the Streamer, Spector and certain lawsuits), the preamps vary on the active basses. So, Rockbasses get generic, no-name preamps whilst Pro Series and German Warwicks all get MEC preamps.

The modern (post-2013) Pro Series looks pretty nice. Andertons have a GPS BO Thumb currently at £1,300 (https://www.andertons.co.uk/warwick-bass/warwick-gps-thumb-bo-4-in-solid-creme-white) which looks rather nice - completely out of my range but it has Ovangkol for both body and neck, but hard to tell from the picture whether it has the bell brass frets you get on older German Warwicks.

And yeah... Warwick seems to love making things complicated to follow. After I got my Thumb I spent quite a bit of time trying to work out exactly where it "fits" in the Warwick line-up And I still can't quite work out if I got an amazing deal, or just paid an average, reasonable price for it. (Very happy with what I got for the money either way!)

[anzoid]

10 hours ago, Soledad said:

OK, thanks - gets a little more complicated then. So Rockbass will be same hardware etc, but inferior woods, and far east build - ? 

Pro will be German or Korean depending on date, but is same hardware, similar quality woods but if Korean, maple necks - ?

German Pro is the one to go for short of limited editions/custom shop - ?

Now there's only Rockbass, Pro Series Team Built (made in Germany) and Custon Shop Master Built (big money...) The current Pro Series seems to be pretty much equivalent to the old Standard series German Warwicks. There are also older, discontinued German Pro Series (I think their serials started GPS, but can't find any picture) that replaced the Korean Pro Series after 2013 when production moved back to Germany. Not sure how older Pro Series relate to newer Pro Series

The Warwick site has a Support page which is great for a deep dive into discontinued models: http://warwick.de/en/Warwick---Support.html

You can select the "Brands" and then choose models and stuff. Bit of a rabbit hole of information

So, yeah - Rockbass is still the budget line (though prices have shot up ...)

Old Pro Series - same hardware, good body woods, mostly maple necks, though it looks like the Corvettes (Ash or Bubinga bodies) may have had Ovangkol or Wenge... consistency in marketing and all that...

New Pro Series - pretty much like the old Standard series with Ovangkol and Wenge.

Custom Built - go talk to your bank manager first

Overall - I'd buy an older German Warwick (or another Korean Pro Series Thumb if I ever see one...)

[Soledad]

Very grateful for your knowledge and time shared, thanks anzoid. I'm getting it now, and their web archive will be useful. An example there's a Corvette Pro on eBay at the moment for £370. It looks to be a Korean 2010 (?), and the seller mentions some corrosion on bridge - so ferrous castings I guess.

Reason for interest is maybe a fretted 5. I'd prefer ash, so I'll be looking for a German Pro and wait for a deal

Thanks again, very helpful.

[machinehead]

My Korean Warwick Streamer LX4 is from 2012 but it says "Made in Korea" above the serial number which indeed starts with WPS followed by the usual Warwick numbering system mentioned above.

I've owned two German Warwicks, an LX4 and a Streamer Stage 2.  The Korean one is of equal quality, the electrics and hardware being identical to the German ones. The woods are different but still top quality.  Highly recommended, especially at the prices they go for in the used market.

Frank.

[Soledad]

13 hours ago, machinehead said:

The Korean one is of equal quality,

Good point - I think it would be worth finding a Korean but also actually seein / playing. I'm in no rush at all but I can feel a 5 string in me bones...

[anzoid]

18 minutes ago, Soledad said:

Good point - I think it would be worth finding a Korean but also actually seein / playing. I'm in no rush at all but I can feel a 5 string in me bones...

As long as you leave the 4-strings to me My fretless Thumb impresses me more and more each time I pick it up. Anyone got a Korean WPS 4-string fretted they want rid of?!? Anyone...?

[eude]

1 hour ago, Soledad said:

Good point - I think it would be worth finding a Korean but also actually seein / playing. I'm in no rush at all but I can feel a 5 string in me bones...

If you fancy a 5 string, have a look at this...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BassPlayersMarketUK/permalink/2346532325358382/?sale_post_id=2346532325358382

No link to the seller, just seems a bargain.

Eude

[Soledad]

1 hour ago, anzoid said:

As long as you leave the 4-strings to me

yep, I owe you that  I'm after a fiver. Cracking B I gather - so many basses disappoint on the B.

 

40 minutes ago, eude said:

If you fancy a 5 string, have a look at this

Hadn't seen that, thanks for link. Seems very fair for a German 5. Need to investigate the single $ pup thing, I've been used to the 2 MEC Thumb before.

[Soledad]

Re the FB Corvette, FNA... found this on musicradar 

This was a short-lived revamp of Warwick's Altus bass and actually the FNA stands for 'Formally Known as Altus'*

Altus?? How complicated can this Warwick thing get... Musicradar reckon it was a short-lived variant, a bit MM sounding but still with some Warwick 'voice'.

*Should be FKA then, but that sounds dodgy.

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Soledad

[LeftyJ]

They weren't allowed to use that name. A violin maker owned the name Altus and threatened to sue so they dropped it. Rumour has it FNA is actually short for "F*cking Not Altus". 

[TheGreek]

There is a Wick forum where all your questions can be answered. You'll notice many BC usernames on there too.

[Soledad]

7 hours ago, TheGreek said:

You'll notice many BC usernames on there too.

Thanks, didn't think of that. I'm actually trying to not buy a bass - there should be a term for that condition - but a fiver keeps nagging at me. A Korean Pro 5 ash would be a willpower challenge.

[bassbora]

On 08/03/2019 at 22:32, TheGreek said:

There is a Wick forum where all your questions can be answered. You'll notice many BC usernames on there too.

Is it still active? I have not been in a long time because it there was hardly any activity. I might check in again.

[bassbora]

On 09/03/2019 at 06:17, Soledad said:

Thanks, didn't think of that. I'm actually trying to not buy a bass - there should be a term for that condition - but a fiver keeps nagging at me. A Korean Pro 5 ash would be a willpower challenge.

I think you should be looking at secondhand. I have over the years had 5 Warwicks and the prices have been really good if you are a buyer last few years. I noticed that someone said prices are going up but I can’t comment on that. 

I have never tried any other than the older German made ones so I cannot comment on the quality of the Far Eastern models but the quality of most guitars in that price bracket has gone up considerably over the last few years. 

Warwicks are quite marmite and I guess either you love them or hate them but I have been playing nothing else since ‘97. I know compared to some people on here that 5 basses is not a lot (I only have currently 4 and I am not looking for any more) but these provide me with everything I ever wanted in a bass. I could probably just keep my Stage2 and be happy. I have been gigging it few times a month for years and it has never let me down.