Bass and Treble Clef reading situation.

[md54]

Playing in a small jazz quintet it’s normal to hand the bass player a tune in treble clef and just be expected to play the changes written underneath. This is really irritating but par for the course unfortunately. I can read treble clef but It does my head in if I’m holding my bass and not a guitar! Very weird if you think about it. Does anyone else out there have to deal with this? If so any tips?

Note I play a 4 string fender.

 Thanks 

[jrixn1]

2 minutes ago, md54 said:

Playing in a small jazz quintet it’s normal to hand the bass player a tune in treble clef and just be expected to play the changes written underneath.

I've probably misunderstood you, but the changes (i.e. the chords) are clef-agnostic. What do you need to read... the melody?

[Davo-London]

Treble and bass clef does my head in.  For the sake of 2 tones why are they not the same notes just different octaves?  FFS that has to be the man's stupidest idea since well ever.

Unless someone can explain why they are different?

Davo

[Acebassmusic]

31 minutes ago, Davo-London said:

Treble and bass clef does my head in.  For the sake of 2 tones why are they not the same notes just different octaves?  FFS that has to be the man's stupidest idea since well ever.

Unless someone can explain why they are different?

Davo

It's historical as far as I know. Originally music was mainly composed on a Grand or Great staff (stave) with 21 lines which covered the majority of the range of the orchestra or keyboard instrument it was written for. When the individual bass and treble parts were written out there was a lot of extra unneeded stave lines. To simplify this someone decided to split the stave into smaller 5 line staves. The Great Staff

I used to play in a brass band and depending on the instrument needed to know both treble and bass clef (oh so long ago, all forgotten now!). Then one day whilst I was on trombone the conductor handed out the music and it was in the tenor clef! Yep, sight reading a new clef resulted in me producing some interesting notes probably not envisaged by the composer!  The Different Clefs

[Jakester]

I was playing a part for weeks before I realised I’d been reading the treble clef part as a bass part. No wonder everyone kept giving me funny looks...😆

[neilp]

It's a basic of musical literacy to be able to read both bass and treble clef (and for orchestral and chamber music, as well as the solo repertoire, tenor as well). I think bass and treble clef are essential, but I must admit to being irritated by the use of tenor clef, which is totally unnecessary. I often have to play parts written in all 3 clefs....

[paul_c2]

If you play the piano then you should be equally confident at both bass and treble clef. And if you play (for example) cello or bassoon (or trombone) to a high standard, then part of that is reading tenor clef (and treble clef for cello). Its a simple case of "you are what you practice" - if you rarely do it, then tenor clef will be awkward. But if you regularly do it, its a non-issue.

Personally I've never myself seen the situation where a bass player would be given sheet music of the tune (in treble clef) and be expected to play the bass line to it (ie, harmonise it on the fly). If its a "lead sheet" (there is no standard, there's tons of variation in a lead sheet) then it probably has chord symbols too, so these can be followed instead of the treble clef melody. Sometimes its handy to know what notes, or chord(s) others are playing but its not essential if you have the bass line written out in a proper format.

[julietgreen]

Ignore the treble part and play the changes from the chord names?

I have a similar problem in that I learned to read bass clef and can play it with my left hand on the piano. I know the bass notes on the bass - but I can't sight read from bass clef to bass! Yet, perhaps. Sight reading for me (and perhaps others) is a decoding process that seems to bypass conscious thought. (I mainly do it for sax) I have to think about it for the bass and by then it's too late.

[md54]

Sorry guys I forgot that I posted this original question!

Yes I know that you can just play the chord changes......obviously. However I think it would be cool to be able to play the tune as well if I wanted to. So I have been practicing the following and I think I've cracked it. The main problem is that if you play the treble notes at the top of the fret board you cant play the higher notes of the tunes on a standard 4 string fender. So I transpose an octave down.

I think of the bass strings as the 4 bottom strings of a guitar and the low E corresponds to the E below the 3 rd ledger below the treble clef. So it is actually sounding 3 octaves below the note  as written I believe. This makes most of the treble clef stave fall into the middle of the bass. I have been switching sight reading bass and treble clef in practice and it's starting to make sense although I have to keep reminding myself which clef I am in. A lapse of concentration and you suddenly jump into the wrong clef! 

My objective is to be able to jump from bass or treble at will and read what ever comes my way. I'm actually enjoying the challenge. I played the tune of Stella by Starlight the other day and the guys in the band loved it. On lead sheets the tune is nearly always in treble.

 

[FatDrunkStupid]

(Slight thread resurrection)

I also used to play trombone semi-professionally and it's required to be able to sight read bass clef (jazz, concert bands), tenor clef (orchestral, brass bands), alto clef (orchestral), treble clef Bb transposed (brass bands) and treble clef concert (just because). For bass, bass clef makes most sense (duh). For trombone, tenor clef is best (although not often used) because it's written in concert pitch and requires far fewer ledger lines when playing in the upper register. Take a look at lead trombone parts in big bands or jazz solo transcriptions - 6+ ledger lines on occasion - sometimes up to 8. Sometimes "tradition" is an donkey  

[ambient]

It’s never really bothered me. I played guitar before playing bass. It’s a useful skill to be able to read both, particularly in jazz where you might want to quote the melody in a solo.

On my undergrad degree course we had to write for orchestra which was an absolute nightmare, switching from bass clef for some instruments, to treble clef, then alto.