Barefaced Big Baby 2: help/recommended heads?

[Misowaki]

So my new Baby arrived and it's a beaut!  Problem is, I'm not getting what I need out of it.
Alex at Barefaced is super responsive and always answers any questions but I guess he's not in the position of giving anything remotely resembling a definitive (because some tool could obvs come back and say 'but you said!' after they've been a tool).  He said from the off I may need a more powerful amp or a Twin for my needs but I would prefer to keep the baby, so...

I currently have an Ampeg PF500.  When I had both my PF210 and PF115LF, it sounded huge using the rig to its full potential but I couldn't be bothered to cart both around and ended up selling the 210 and was left with the solitary 115.  A recent session left me wanting.  Playing a 5er with some big subs wasn't yielding the results I wanted so I finally bit the bullet and went for the BB2.  My One10 with a TC BH250 sounds monster so figured this setup would deliver brown sounds aplenty.  For whatever reason, it's not.  So at 8 Ohms I'm getting 300w.  The recommended continuous according to the BF site is 600w.  Probably that, right...?

And to the point: recommended heads to go with?  I'd like to keep it portable as possible but also not stupid expensive.  That said, I'm liking the look of the new hybrid Fender Bassman heads which apparently deliver 500w @ 8 Ohms.  Rumble head only gives 400w.

I hear great things about Aguilar and Darkglass but I've still got the Baby to pay off on finance so need something that won't murder my fiscals.  Not to mention my gf stepped on my macbook yesterday and cracked the screen... huzzah!

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.

Andrew

[doomed]

Quilter Bassblock 800, mine into my 8ohm Four10 is phenomenally loud and not lacking in any way, you can either go straight in to the front or use a preamp and bypass the Quilter's own eq section by going into the xlr on the rear.

Edited March 9, 2019 by doomed

[Misowaki]

I've heard lots about these recently, will do more digging.  Thanks!

 

[chris_b]

Aguilar TH500, AG700 and a Thunderfunk amps have always given me a great sound through Barefaced 210's and 112's.

[Al Krow]

10 hours ago, Misowaki said:

So my new Baby arrived and it's a beaut!  Problem is, I'm not getting what I need out of it.
Alex at Barefaced is super responsive and always answers any questions but I guess he's not in the position of giving anything remotely resembling a definitive (because some tool could obvs come back and say 'but you said!' after they've been a tool).  He said from the off I may need a more powerful amp or a Twin for my needs but I would prefer to keep the baby, so...

I currently have an Ampeg PF500.  When I had both my PF210 and PF115LF, it sounded huge using the rig to its full potential but I couldn't be bothered to cart both around and ended up selling the 210 and was left with the solitary 115.  A recent session left me wanting.  Playing a 5er with some big subs wasn't yielding the results I wanted so I finally bit the bullet and went for the BB2.  My One10 with a TC BH250 sounds monster so figured this setup would deliver brown sounds aplenty.  For whatever reason, it's not.  So at 8 Ohms I'm getting 300w.  The recommended continuous according to the BF site is 600w.  Probably that, right...?

And to the point: recommended heads to go with?  I'd like to keep it portable as possible but also not stupid expensive.  That said, I'm liking the look of the new hybrid Fender Bassman heads which apparently deliver 500w @ 8 Ohms.  Rumble head only gives 400w.

I hear great things about Aguilar and Darkglass but I've still got the Baby to pay off on finance so need something that won't murder my fiscals.  Not to mention my gf stepped on my macbook yesterday and cracked the screen... huzzah!

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.

Andrew

Really weird that you should be getting a bigger sound with your 110 than the BB2 at 300W?

In fact with the bigger speaker size and additional driver displacement, I would be expecting it to be the other way around ie the volume from your BB2 to exceed the 110 by a margin (in the same way I’d expect a 410 to be louder than a 110). A capable cab shouldn’t require a monster amp to drive it.

Hmmm...if what you’re getting is common to BB2 owners, it will definitely make me think twice about upgrading my SC to a BB2.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Al Krow

[funkle]

The BB2 is a hugely capable cab. It can definitely deliver brown sounds. 

What are you missing in your sound? The BB2 is by its nature pretty clean sounding, although you can get a more ‘old school’ top end by turning the attenuator on the back so the highs are coming more from the cone than the compression driver. 

If you need big low end, then you want a lot of power. The BB2 will put out pretty much whatever you put into it. I tried a Tecamp Puma 900 (now Eich) and a GB Streamliner 900 with it. Both of those gave out a ton of volume/low end. I would think a GK MB 800 or GK MB Fusion 800 would absolutely wail through that cab as well. These are all second hand options...

Edited March 10, 2019 by funkle

[Misowaki]

8 hours ago, funkle said:

If you need big low end, then you want a lot of power. The BB2 will put out pretty much whatever you put into it. I tried a Tecamp Puma 900 (now Eich) and a GB Streamliner 900 with it.

Yeah, that's what I'm looking at really, need something that will feed it around 600w I thing. Looking at an Ampeg SVT 7 Pro atm... 600w @ 8 ohms with a valve a 12AX7 in the pre-amp...

Quilter looks good too but only 400w @ 8 Ohms.  Would love an Aguilar but to get something that delivers 600w takes me way over budget.  Probs gonna have to sell the Ampeg PF rig to fund this either way.

[Misowaki]

12 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Hmmm...if what you’re getting is common to BB2 owners, it will definitely make me think twice about upgrading my SC to a BB2.

I don't know if it's common to BB2 owners, not heard of anyone else with this problem the. Alex did tell me when I first enquired that the PF500 wasn't quite gutsy enough to drive it so I was definitely forewarned.  Don't let it put you off, just don't be like me; make sure you have a head that's will drive it properly. 

The BB2 is plenty loud with my PF head if I'm playing straight up, just don't think it's powerful enough to accommodate the Octabvre and that without clipping. It's the head that's at fault, not the cab.

[gjones]

I play through a PF500 and an ampeg 410 at a local venue regularly (it's the venues gear). The problem with the PF500 is that, if you want to play loud, you have to turn the gain up. If you turn the gain up it tends to sound pretty overdriven (which is fine if you want that sound). A few times I've brought my Gallien Krueger MB500 along to the gig and found I can get a much louder and cleaner sound out of the 410, than I could with the PF500.

A few months ago I bought a Barefaced Super Compact and even the GK MB500 wasn't powerful enough to drive it enough to compete, comfortably, with a loud drummer. So I went out and bought a GK MB800, which now gives me enough power to get the level of volume I need.

GK amps are very powerful and ridiculously cheap, secondhand.

 

 

[funkle]

Noticed my mistake with model number for GK heads. Corrected. Doh

[LukeFRC]

There's 101 different amps around 700w, and to be fair 500w would do you well so you *could* add them to your list. 

The main question @Misowaki I think is what kinda bass tone are you going for? And what kinda gigs are you using it for?

[Lozz196]

If looking at similar tone to the Ampeg I`d check out Aguilar Tonehammers or Ashdown RM range. I`ve had all three and both the Aguilar and Ashdown have a lot more volume on tap. The Aguilar is more driven sounding (you need to push gain to get it loud, but it`s a good loud), the Ashdown a lot fuller sounding.

[BanditSid]

_{I gig weekly with either one or two BB2 cabs and have used them with a GK MB800 initially then for the last 2 years with an MB800 fusion, the fusion is a better sounding amp for me but either will get the job done for you.}

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by BanditSid
Text too small

[BanditSid]

3 hours ago, Misowaki said:

Yeah, that's what I'm looking at really, need something that will feed it around 600w I thing. Looking at an Ampeg SVT 7 Pro atm... 600w @ 8 ohms with a valve a 12AX7 in the pre-amp...

Quilter looks good too but only 400w @ 8 Ohms.  Would love an Aguilar but to get something that delivers 600w takes me way over budget.  Probs gonna have to sell the Ampeg PF rig to fund this either way.

I have an Ampeg SVT7 Pro that I'm planning to sell if you are still looking for one.

[Misowaki]

2 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

There's 101 different amps around 700w, and to be fair 500w would do you well so you *could* add them to your list. 

The main question @Misowaki I think is what kinda bass tone are you going for? And what kinda gigs are you using it for?

I mainly play with flats, I like it full and thumpy with a bit of a punch.  Don't play much in the way of slap or scooped sounds.  I do like pedals though so needs to be something that can give me plenty of thump but also handle things like filters, chorus and sub octaves.  Think somewhere along the lines of Pino/Tim Lefebvre/Juan Alderete I guess.  But probably 75% Pino/Jamerson kinda tones.

[Misowaki]

3 hours ago, gjones said:

 

GK amps are very powerful and ridiculously cheap, secondhand.

 

 

My first real rig was a 2nd hand GK 400RB with matching 4x10 and I did love it but I somehow managed to kill it.  It was pretty knackered when I bought the whole thing tbf, only cost me £300 all in.  I would be up for trying GK again actually.  Thing is I don't see many of them around ridiculously cheap =D

Edited March 10, 2019 by Misowaki

[gjones]

2 hours ago, Misowaki said:

My first real rig was a 2nd hand GK 400RB with matching 4x10 and I did love it but I somehow managed to kill it.  It was pretty knackered when I bought the whole thing tbf, only cost me £300 all in.  I would be up for trying GK again actually.  Thing is I don't see many of them around ridiculously cheap =D

Just give it time. I've seen MB500s going for £250 recently and MB 800s going for around £350. 

[Misowaki]

Ah, time... a concept my mind is familiar with but my impulsiveness is not.  If the smaller rig sells before the head is replaced then I'll have to grab whatever I can afford!  Plus from the looks of things, the Fusion is the one for me.

[Al Krow]

14 hours ago, Misowaki said:

I don't know if it's common to BB2 owners, not heard of anyone else with this problem the. Alex did tell me when I first enquired that the PF500 wasn't quite gutsy enough to drive it so I was definitely forewarned.  Don't let it put you off, just don't be like me; make sure you have a head that's will drive it properly. 

The BB2 is plenty loud with my PF head if I'm playing straight up, just don't think it's powerful enough to accommodate the Octabvre and that without clipping. It's the head that's at fault, not the cab.

Cheers for that. But I still can't get my head around ANY amp sounding louder through a BF 110 than the BB2 just based on speaker cone size and greater driver displacement in the BB2.

[chris_b]

On 09/03/2019 at 17:59, Misowaki said:

So my new Baby arrived and it's a beaut!  Problem is, I'm not getting what I need out of it.

I currently have an Ampeg PF500.   For whatever reason, it's not.  So at 8 Ohms I'm getting 300w.  The recommended continuous according to the BF site is 600w.  Probably that, right...?

And to the point: recommended heads to go with?  I'd like to keep it portable as possible but also not stupid expensive.  That said, I'm liking the look of the new hybrid Fender Bassman heads which apparently deliver 500w @ 8 Ohms.  Rumble head only gives 400w.

You've gone from "woolly" to a razor sharp clarity, from a narrow, shallow sound to a wide, broad sound . . . .  I'm not surprised that a BB2 sounds different to your Ampeg 115 to the point that you're unsure what you're hearing. You've gone from one end of the sonic scale to the other. It's not unusual when you upgrade one link in the signal chain that you highlight weaknesses in the other links, but in this case IMO you've just got to learn how to use what you've got. Get familiar with the step change in sound quality.

I run my amps at 8 ohms all the time, that's 250 watts into my Super Compact and I have no problem filling the room. Alex suggests 150 watts as the lower end of the BB2 power requirements. I'd suggest your amp is fine and you're just on a steep learning curve. Maybe you need some help. Do you know anyone who can listen to your sound, or play while you listen?

[Misowaki]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Cheers for that. But I still can't get my head around ANY amp sounding louder through a BF 110 than the BB2 just based on speaker cone size and greater driver displacement in the BB2.

But I didn't say it was louder, I said it was a monster...

[Misowaki]

28 minutes ago, chris_b said:

You've gone from "woolly" to a razor sharp clarity, from a narrow, shallow sound to a wide, broad sound . . . .  I'm not surprised that a BB2 sounds different to your Ampeg 115 to the point that you're unsure what you're hearing. You've gone from one end of the sonic scale to the other. It's not unusual when you upgrade one link in the signal chain that you highlight weaknesses in the other links, but in this case IMO you've just got to learn how to use what you've got. Get familiar with the step change in sound quality.

I run my amps at 8 ohms all the time, that's 250 watts into my Super Compact and I have no problem filling the room. Alex suggests 150 watts as the lower end of the BB2 power requirements. I'd suggest your amp is fine and you're just on a steep learning curve. Maybe you need some help. Do you know anyone who can listen to your sound, or play while you listen?

I appreciate what you're saying, thing is I'm more talking about the power it needs to handle sub octaves. After looking into all this, it appears to me that in order for the driver to work efficiently with the added low end, the amp needs to have an appropriate amount of juice to keep it going.

For regular playing, yes, the amp is fine. To properly handle the extra lows I'm feeding it, I  need more power.

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, Misowaki said:

But I didn't say it was louder, I said it was a monster...

I stopped believing in monsters when I was six.

You'll need to elaborate  

[Misowaki]

 Okay, you're right.

One10 with a BH250, used for mostly clean playing with flats. Alt. Pop soul kinda stuff, whatever that means. Easily handles what I use it for. Would even use at a gig through PA as it's a decent monitor.

BB2 is for bigger gigs with effects. Same band with one subby synth moment. Another band that's more ambient electronic r&b kinda thing. 5 string plays well with BB2 and PF500, does the job but it doesnt like the Octabvre or my Manta Filter. I now believe it's the amp that is clipping over the cab. Hence, I need a bigger head 😃

[itu]

32 minutes ago, Misowaki said:

For regular playing, yes, the amp is fine. To properly handle the extra lows I'm feeding it, I  need more power.

I was thinking that your current amp is just fine, but if you want more of that lowest end, there is nearly no limit... Your choice is probably something like a 900 W class D amp. Flats and very low end means really big power levels. It is not very much louder, just different.