Bass wireless systems

[martthebass]

13 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Another Smoothhound fan here! 

The back panel issue you refer to - is that the plastic battery cover on the transmitter? 

It is Al. Very careful now when I change batteries, always do it at home and not in a rush on a gig.

[Vinny]

I've been telling all and sundry that ever asked me to go and buy a Smooth Hound (even after I managed to destroy mine into a squillion bits) and was about to get another one when the G75 offers came up. Different world! 

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Vinny said:

I've been telling all and sundry that ever asked me to go and buy a Smooth Hound (even after I managed to destroy mine into a squillion bits) and was about to get another one when the G75 offers came up. Different world! 

Interesting! I'm a massive fan of Smoothhound and have just bought a back up set from a fellow BCer. But always interested to hear about great quality gear. What are you finding is better about the G75 and how does it compare in price to the £149 new of the Smoothhound? 

[Vinny]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Interesting! I'm a massive fan of Smoothhound and have just bought a back up set from a fellow BCer. But always interested to hear about great quality gear. What are you finding is better about the G75 and how does it compare in price to the £149 new of the Smoothhound? 

It was a whole tenner dearer than the SH, which I'd only have spent on chocolate raisins and vimto. I never had any drop-outs or latency problems with the SH and was happy with the sound of it, the only things I ever had a gripe with it were; 

The receiver unit being lighter than the average moth meant I had to wedge it under my amp handle to stop the 1/4" jack cable throwing it round all over the place. Yeah - I'm actually complaining it's too light!

The power supply being the correct way round for everything but music use, (as some joker decided that the polarity had to be bass-ackwards on FX pedals) so it always needed it's own plug. What with no two wall-warts being the same way round or shape to fit in extension leads together, it took a fair bit of electrical tetris to run it with the setup I had, (SH, tuner pedal, drive pedal, DI box to PA/combo amp) the pedals were on their own 9v wart, the SH on one and the DI box on another (12v!!) transformer, and a plug for the combo all added up to taking forever to find an extension lead that they'd all fit in.

The SH is also not what you'd call 'road ready'. I rather embarrassingly proved it, too! 

All of which is actually pretty minor and the simple thing to do is to stop moaning and use a great-performing lil unit. Certainly couldn't moan about the battery life on the Hound, the only annoyance on that front was the dead battery warning on mine was never any more than 30 seconds til it expired. 

The G75 base unit weighs about the same as a full pint in one of those old faceted glasses with a handle on. It's going nowhere, even with a bunch of cables in it, and it can have a lot - it works as a DI box with XLR out (with ground lift), 2 seperate 1/4" outputs and a dedicated tuner out, even with a built-in tuner. It even has a 1/4" aux input that I haven't used yet. So that's the DI box, tuner and 2 warts left in the case, leaving me with a signal chain of a G75 and a drive pedal. The screen counts down in hours and minutes the remaining battery life, and I got 43 minutes of use while deliberately ignoring the flashing dead battery lightshow. The fuel gauge starts at 8 hours on alkalines, and after 2 pairs used I've no reason to doubt it. It won't even switch on with NiMHs in, though. 

I've no intention of finding out, but I genuinely believe the transmitter would have a good chance of surviving a small car driving over it. She's got some gravity on her! It can take any 1/4" guitar lead, but the supplied one even screws in to the top of the unit. That leads me to the only fault with the whole show, the tranny clip! Seriously, it looks like some one cobbled one up from some bent fusewire. Stuck a fingertip under it to get it over a strap end and it pinged off into the corner of the room. Then straight back in the box. I'll have to invest in one of those holster thingies, but until then it can live in a pocket. 

I'm still a fan of the Smooth Hound, if I ever feel the need for a home-use-only wireless I'll probably get another one.  You know that feeling of owning a perfectly capable 1.4 hatchback that'll serve you well? That's the Smooth Hound. The G75 is like being handed the keys to a dirty big V6 that someone else filled up.

TLDR - try a G75.

[uk_lefty]

Great, I'm now craving chocolate raisins and vimto!!!

My only issue with the G75 from very limited use is that in the rehearsal room it just would not work. No obvious explanation except my guitarist had a G30 very nearby. I think I wasn't changing channels correctly or something. I took it home and it worked perfectly. However, the power cable for the receiver unit is a micro usb on a short cable. Even on top of a small 15" combo that's not got the length to get to a power socket, I don't quite get it, I'd prefer a kettle lead sized socket because you can buy kettle leads by the metre on Amazon and I have a lot of metres worth for gigging purposes. When I gig this in a few weeks time it will have to be on top of two Ashdown cabs and a head so I'm going to probably gaffer tape a four gang extension lead to the back of one of the cabs so that I can power it up. Other than that it works great. I set it up in my spare bedroom, walked downstairs playing bass all over the house and got half way down the garden before the signal got interrupted by my wife telling me to stop pratting around.

[Al Krow]

@Vinny - thanks for that.

Reverse polarity - yup, what was Chris smoking when he decided to do that? 😂 

He sells these polarity reversers for £1.99 (or can be had from Amazon etc)

In terms of being light being a 'problem' - well I've dealt with that with a bit of velcro on top of my amp if I'm using the SH with no other pedals (and obviously the same solution if it's going on a pedal board).

So if you're not saying that the G75 is significantly better in terms of connectivity or latency, then I can rest easy with my SH gear  

[stewblack]

8 hours ago, Vinny said:

It was a whole tenner dearer than the SH, which I'd only have spent on chocolate raisins and vimto. I never had any drop-outs or latency problems with the SH and was happy with the sound of it, the only things I ever had a gripe with it were; 

The receiver unit being lighter than the average moth meant I had to wedge it under my amp handle to stop the 1/4" jack cable throwing it round all over the place. Yeah - I'm actually complaining it's too light!

The power supply being the correct way round for everything but music use, (as some joker decided that the polarity had to be bass-ackwards on FX pedals) so it always needed it's own plug. What with no two wall-warts being the same way round or shape to fit in extension leads together, it took a fair bit of electrical tetris to run it with the setup I had, (SH, tuner pedal, drive pedal, DI box to PA/combo amp) the pedals were on their own 9v wart, the SH on one and the DI box on another (12v!!) transformer, and a plug for the combo all added up to taking forever to find an extension lead that they'd all fit in.

The SH is also not what you'd call 'road ready'. I rather embarrassingly proved it, too! 

All of which is actually pretty minor and the simple thing to do is to stop moaning and use a great-performing lil unit. Certainly couldn't moan about the battery life on the Hound, the only annoyance on that front was the dead battery warning on mine was never any more than 30 seconds til it expired. 

The G75 base unit weighs about the same as a full pint in one of those old faceted glasses with a handle on. It's going nowhere, even with a bunch of cables in it, and it can have a lot - it works as a DI box with XLR out (with ground lift), 2 seperate 1/4" outputs and a dedicated tuner out, even with a built-in tuner. It even has a 1/4" aux input that I haven't used yet. So that's the DI box, tuner and 2 warts left in the case, leaving me with a signal chain of a G75 and a drive pedal. The screen counts down in hours and minutes the remaining battery life, and I got 43 minutes of use while deliberately ignoring the flashing dead battery lightshow. The fuel gauge starts at 8 hours on alkalines, and after 2 pairs used I've no reason to doubt it. It won't even switch on with NiMHs in, though. 

I've no intention of finding out, but I genuinely believe the transmitter would have a good chance of surviving a small car driving over it. She's got some gravity on her! It can take any 1/4" guitar lead, but the supplied one even screws in to the top of the unit. That leads me to the only fault with the whole show, the tranny clip! Seriously, it looks like some one cobbled one up from some bent fusewire. Stuck a fingertip under it to get it over a strap end and it pinged off into the corner of the room. Then straight back in the box. I'll have to invest in one of those holster thingies, but until then it can live in a pocket. 

I'm still a fan of the Smooth Hound, if I ever feel the need for a home-use-only wireless I'll probably get another one.  You know that feeling of owning a perfectly capable 1.4 hatchback that'll serve you well? That's the Smooth Hound. The G75 is like being handed the keys to a dirty big V6 that someone else filled up.

TLDR - try a G75.

Best review of anything, ever. 

[Vinny]

2 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

Great, I'm now craving chocolate raisins and vimto!!!

My only issue with the G75 from very limited use is that in the rehearsal room it just would not work. No obvious explanation except my guitarist had a G30 very nearby. I think I wasn't changing channels correctly or something. I took it home and it worked perfectly. However, the power cable for the receiver unit is a micro usb on a short cable. Even on top of a small 15" combo that's not got the length to get to a power socket, I don't quite get it, I'd prefer a kettle lead sized socket because you can buy kettle leads by the metre on Amazon and I have a lot of metres worth for gigging purposes. When I gig this in a few weeks time it will have to be on top of two Ashdown cabs and a head so I'm going to probably gaffer tape a four gang extension lead to the back of one of the cabs so that I can power it up. Other than that it works great. I set it up in my spare bedroom, walked downstairs playing bass all over the house and got half way down the garden before the signal got interrupted by my wife telling me to stop pratting around.

I haven't used the USB on mine at all, I run it on the 9v as extending the cables on them is daft easy, and I already had one. I also simply don't trust micro USB sockets to hold any cable weight. 

[EBS_freak]

59 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So if you're not saying that the G75 is significantly better in terms of connectivity or latency, then I can rest easy with my SH gear  

The latency of the G75 is sub 1.5ms... so it's actually pretty much top of the tree in terms of latency out of all the digital wireless systems out there. I would say it's significantly better... or in other words, leaps and bounds better. Or to put it another way... the G75 has pretty much half the latency of the tour grade digital wireless systems (although alot of those are running encryption also).

[M@23]

I've just got a G75 (birthday yesterday 😁) 

Very impressed so far, the build quality is great and the transmitter is sleek. 

It has a scan feature, where you can view 16 channels and the interference on each. It continually scans too, so you can watch it for a few seconds and get a good picture of what's what. 

[Woodinblack]

It looks interesting. I have only once had a problem with the Sh when I forgot to change the batteries and it died - its hard to see it is going to do that. My only problem with it is that it is a bit frail really - the battery compartment is sort of held on with tape and I think the jack plug would be coming off if it wasn't always tied together.

But fundamentally, it works, so I have no need for a new one for now. However, that is a good deal for the 75, if you have room for that base unit!

[Al Krow]

48 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

It looks interesting. I have only once had a problem with the Sh when I forgot to change the batteries and it died - its hard to see it is going to do that. My only problem with it is that it is a bit frail really - the battery compartment is sort of held on with tape and I think the jack plug would be coming off if it wasn't always tied together.

But fundamentally, it works, so I have no need for a new one for now. However, that is a good deal for the 75, if you have room for that base unit!

+1 ^^

I see what you mean about room for that bass unit! Defo not for me...

[b7l4s]

Another Smooth Hound user here. It works for me, and I've never experienced any drop outs or interference. I don't think I've used a cable (on all but one bass that has a sloppy worn out socket) since getting it, even practicing at home. The iffy bass is OK if you wrap the cable around the strap button but obviously that isn't an option with the SH transmitter. I can understand why the Smooth Hound isn't for everybody, but the smallness and lightness are exactly why I like it.

[uk_lefty]

1 hour ago, Vinny said:

I haven't used the USB on mine at all, I run it on the 9v as extending the cables on them is daft easy, and I already had one. I also simply don't trust micro USB sockets to hold any cable weight. 

Good tip. I've not spent enough time with it yet but will have to this weekend in prep for a gig early June

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

The latency of the G75 is sub 1.5ms... so it's actually pretty much top of the tree in terms of latency out of all the digital wireless systems out there. I would say it's significantly better... or in other words, leaps and bounds better. Or to put it another way... the G75 has pretty much half the latency of the tour grade digital wireless systems (although alot of those are running encryption also).

You and I differ on this (as we know!) But I wonder if that is just down to our different set ups?

We're both agreed that latency doesn't really get noticed until around 20ms. So if my SH has an 8ms latency it won't be an issue when used alone and it certainly has not been in the couple of years I've been happily using one (even more so since Chris just sent me a completely free of charge (including no P&P!) replacement battery cover, which arrived this morning!  ).

But even with a pedal board, it seems to me that latency is only really an issue if there is some syncing going on with another signal that is being triggered at exactly the same time (so you end up with an unwanted slap back). Otherwise human reaction time from taking a decision to play, to our fingers actually hitting the strings is way slower than 30ms and yet we somehow all manage to keep in time with our bandmates - so we are all clearly very capable of managing to compensate in real time for this human latency. Another few ms from a pedal board will just be absorbed into that real time processing we are all clearly capable of doing.

However my bands are using good old fashioned bass and lead guitar backline, with vocals and acoustic going separately through the PA. I wonder if your latency concern is something that impacts IEM users much more, which is where you are coming from, and therefore is an additional factor for them to particularly consider / be aware of?

Edited May 24, 2019 by Al Krow

[jimmy23cricket]

Does the G75 work with pedal boards?

 

[Al Krow]

On 11/03/2019 at 10:50, BrunoBass said:

I have the Xvive - I'm not that impressed, they haven't died on me but they drop out a lot, to the point where I won't use them anymore.

Sadly my experience of the Xvive too. I was really hoping it was going to be a runner given what a compact design it is.

[Al Krow]

@hiram.k.hackenbacker - love it! Responding in kind shortly...  

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Al Krow

[stewblack]

So what do you guys do via a vis pedal boards? Receiver on the amp and use two long leads and the effects loop? Receiver at the pedal board and one lead back to the amp? Two different wireless transmitters /receivers one between bass and pedal board in and one between pedal board out and amp? 

Does it matter? 

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, stewblack said:

So what do you guys do via a vis pedal boards? Receiver on the amp and use two long leads and the effects loop? Receiver at the pedal board and one lead back to the amp? Two different wireless transmitters /receivers one between bass and pedal board in and one between pedal board out and amp? 

Does it matter? 

Wireless receiver at start of pedal board (takes the place of the lead from the bass).

Lead from final pedal in the chain --> amp in the normal way.

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

😀 - lunch box courtesy of Tesco BTW. They come in a Russian Doll type multi pack. I use this one for the base unit. The big one for the transmitters/plug/cables. The small one for batteries. All stow away nicely.

My pics now uploaded for comparison immediately below yours.

Can't fault your choice of amp, though...😂

[EBS_freak]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

You and I differ on this (as we know!) But I wonder if that is just down to our different set ups?

We're both agreed that latency doesn't really get noticed until around 20ms. So if my SH has an 8ms latency it won't be an issue when used alone and it certainly has not been in the couple of years I've been happily using one (even more so since Chris just sent me a completely free of charge (including no P&P!) replacement battery cover, which arrived this morning!  ).

But even with a pedal board, it seems to me that latency is only really an issue if there is some syncing going on with another signal that is being triggered at exactly the same time (so you end up with an unwanted slap back). Otherwise human reaction time from taking a decision to play, to our fingers actually hitting the strings is way slower than 30ms and yet we somehow all manage to keep in time with our bandmates - so we are all clearly very capable of managing to compensate in real time for this human latency. Another few ms from a pedal board will just be absorbed into that real time processing we are all clearly capable of doing.

However my bands are using good old fashioned bass and lead guitar backline, with vocals and acoustic going separately through the PA. I wonder if your latency concern is something that impacts IEM users much more, which is where you are coming from, and therefore is an additional factor for them to particularly consider / be aware of?

I defo don't agree that latency doesn't really doesn't get noticed until around 20ms! Tolerances on IEMs usually top out at 10ms... some people are lower.

I just don't understand why people would choose to add latency when a wireless unit is meant to be a cable replacement (with sub sub sub sub sub ms latency?)

 

[Al Krow]

10 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I defo don't agree that latency doesn't really doesn't get noticed until around 20ms! Tolerances on IEMs usually top out at 10ms... some people are lower.

I just don't understand why people would choose to add latency when a wireless unit is meant to be a cable replacement (with sub sub sub sub sub ms latency?)

Happy to go with 10ms if that's the better number.

But it's not a choice of deliberately adding latency for the sake of it. It's about what your live sound & performance priorities are.

Compact and ease of use are right up there for me e.g. taking up minimal pedal board space is a big plus factor which more than offsets any latency concerns for me (I don't have any latency concerns with the SH btw).

It's a bit like saying why would anyone choose a D class over a full blooded valve amp or AB class amp when the latter sound better? Well actually the answer is the same, compact (lightweight) and ease of use...

Edited May 24, 2019 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

In the grand scheme of things, in relation to the total amount of gear I take with me to a gig, the difference in size between these two is negligible as far as I’m concerned. No arguments from me if it works for you. I’ve never tried one, so I can’t really comment. I did look widely into latency when I was shopping around and I’m fairly sure the G75 was quoted as one of the best. Accepted what others have said regarding regarding latency, but the G75 does exactly what I want, is built solidly (transmitters packs look bombproof as previously mentioned) and was well priced.

👍

Yup - if it's working for you and you're loving it, what's not to like?

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Wireless receiver at start of pedal board (takes the place of the lead from the bass).

Lead from final pedal in the chain --> amp in the normal way.

@stewblack here you go - what it looks like on my home board set up.  The Smoothhound is on bottom right of the board. 

Also illustrates why I'm such a fan of compact - definitely no space for anything G75 sized to fit comfortably!

And no guitar leads whatsoever(!!) which I'll have to admit kinda feels incredibly decadent for home use, but definitely better than sitting in a drawer as a back up for my gigging SH  

Edited May 24, 2019 by Al Krow