Paul McCartney: Overrated or What?

[Fionn]

I know he played bass in what was arguably the biggest/ best known band of all time. I know that a few top players rate him for such strengths as ‘melodic sensibility’, ‘appropriateness’, etc, but why do I hear his name so often when ‘bass greats’ are being spoken of, always seeming to rank highly on these relentless ‘best bass players of all time’ lists that proliferate?

I would never argue that he wasn’t a fine musician, a good song-writer, and solid multi-instrumentalist, and I don’t find his bass playing to be offensive in any way.

... just a bit ‘meh’. 

He sounds to me like a guitarist playing bass typically does. I can’t hear any innovation or great imagination in what he did,  nothing special at all. He may have been a tuneful, solid player ... but I certainly don’t believe he’s one of the greats of the instrument. I believe him to be highly overrated in that regard.

Am I spectacularly missing something here? I’m interested to hear what folk have to say, McCartney fans especially. Give me food for thought. I’m always open to another perspective.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Fionn

[thebrig]

Whether he is one of the greats in terms of bass playing, I'm not really qualified to say, but I always admired his ability to play those melodic baselines and sing at the same time, something I always find hard to do. 🤔

[M@23]

Pretty much did whatever was required of the song in the early years, then right through to harmonising other instruments, playing up the dusty end, chords and melodies. Using the bass as a melodic instrument, in a rock/pop setting. 

Incredible bassist in my book, and hugely imaginative and certainly an innovator. 

 

[Hobbayne]

The bass work and sound on A Day In The Life nearly caused me to soil myself when I first heard it. However, by the time he got to Something, it sounded to me like he was just showing off.

[silverfoxnik]

Just now, M@23 said:

Pretty much did whatever was required of the song in the early years, then right through to harmonising other instruments, playing up the dusty end, chords and melodies. Using the bass as a melodic instrument, in a rock/pop setting. 

Incredible bassist in my book, and hugely imaginative and certainly an innovator. 

 

+1. Spot on.. 

And IMO, Macca was a master of striking the right balance between playing exactly what the song needed and making the bass line something of real interest that helped define the song. 

That to me, is so much more important than measuring a bass player's status/rank/greatness etc by qualities such as technical dexterity and virtuosity alone. 

Just my 2p worth of course and I know that there are many very strongly held and diverse views about this subject on this forum. 

Have a nice day folks.. 😊

[EssentialTension]

6 minutes ago, silverfoxnik said:

 

... And IMO, Macca was a master of striking the right balance between playing exactly what the song needed and making the bass line something of real interest that helped define the song ...

... and here's an example of that:

 

[gjones]

7 minutes ago, EssentialTension said:

... and here's an example of that:

 

Interestingly I heard this song on the radio the other day and thought exactly the same. The good thing about being the a bass player and the boss, is that you can whack the bass up in the mix and drown out the guitarist. By the way, that's the first time I've heard a Rikky sounding halfway decent live (but still think he should have kept the Yamaha)..

[Barking Spiders]

I'm not a big fan of either The Beatles, Wings or his solo stuff but I far prefer his way of playing to all the bass shredders out there. IMO if you don't have the tunes then all that technical stinky poo isn't worth cr@p. I've heard  Stanley Clarke, Geddy Lee, Jeff Berlin, Vic Wootten etc etc but none of the guys can hold a tune in a bucket IMO even though they are masters of technique.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Barking Spiders

[Bassassin]

I'm not a fan of either McCartney or The Beatles - probably because they have no direct influence on my musical DNA, I've always felt fairly indifferent.

However, it really bugs me (or "triggers" me, if we're gonna be all 2019 ) when this term "overrated" gets thrown around in relation to artists who are indisputable originators - absolutely pivotal and seminal in the evolution of both music as a creative & cultural force, and in the development of the role of the bass.

McCartney is one such - his influence, direct or indirect, is enormous, it's probably entirely reasonable to say that without him & his band, none of us would be playing the music we play now, wherever we sit on the musical spectrum, or however we personally feel about McCartney.

Fair enough to say you don't like him/them, or you think so-and-so would have done it better - but "overrated"? Look it up.

[chris_b]

I don't think he's a great technician on the bass. He doesn't either and was quoted in the early days as, "Just following Ringo's bass drum", but as a musician he played exactly what was required. Which is never a bad thing.

Then, when the Beatles went into creative overdrive his bass lines kept pace. He changed the way bass players thought about bass lines and empowered all of us to use our elbows and move right up to the front of the song.

I think you can talk about McCartney the bass player in the same breath as James Jamerson.  They were both imaginative, creative and important to the instrument and they released bass players from the 2/4 "hell" that had been their lot up to that point. They opened that door and made everything we know today, possible.

[HazBeen]

2 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

I'm not a big fan of either The Beatles, Wings or his solo stuff but as  I far prefer his way of playing to all the bass shredders out there. IMO if you don't have the tunes then all that technical stinky poo isn't worth cr@p. I've heard  Stanley Clarke, Geddy Lee, Jeff Berlin, Vic Wootten etc etc but none of the guys can hold a tune in a bucket IMO even though they are masters of technique.

Ehm, okay. We have gone from Macca to slating some of bass’ greats. You have probably only seen them shred..... incredible feel, timing and harmonic understanding in all the names you mention.

Back on topic, Macca is a great bass player with an “own” voice. Utter nob I hear from somebody who has met him, but great great musician.

[chris_b]

1 minute ago, Bassassin said:

I'm not a fan of either McCartney or The Beatles - probably because they have no direct influence on my musical DNA. . .

But I believe they do.

They influenced the guys who influenced the guys who influenced you. There is a direct line between the Beatles and everyone playing today.

[Bassassin]

1 minute ago, chris_b said:

But I believe they do.

They influenced the guys who influenced the guys who influenced you. There is a direct line between the Beatles and everyone playing today.

That - if you read my post, is my entire point. And why the sentence you quoted contains the word "direct".

 

[Mykesbass]

Not a fan of the Beatles, but he has come up with some wonderful bass lines and his playing has been hugely influential on much rock and pop that has followed. @HazBeen I know someone who met him and came away with the complete opposite experience. Like all of us, he probably has good and bad days!

[Barking Spiders]

3 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I don't think he's a great technician on the bass. He doesn't either and was quoted in the early days as, "Just following Ringo's bass drum", but as a musician he played exactly what was required. Which is never a bad thing.

Then, when the Beatles went into creative overdrive his bass lines kept pace. He changed the way bass players thought about bass lines and empowered all of us to use our elbows and move right up to the front of the song.

I think you can talk about McCartney the bass player in the same breath as James Jamerson.  They were both imaginative, creative and important to the instrument and they released bass players from the 2/4 "hell" that had been their lot up to that point. They opened that door and made everything we know today, possible.

Yep, in terms of influence on bass playing, PM is definitely among the top 10 along with Jamerson, Entwhistle, the P-Funk players and a few others.  

[Norris]

To gain some perspective you need to look what preceeded him. He was truly an innovator in bringing the bass to the fore rather than standing at the back playing root & fifths. Forty odd years later it's not always easy to realise the influence he has made on bass playing. Most of his bass lines are sublime and are just what the songs needed. To do that as well as singing is truly a feat.

I can't say I listen to the Beatles or Wings very often, but to say he is overrated is to do him a disservice 

[Bassassin]

4 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

Yep, in terms of influence on bass playing, PM is definitely among the top 10 along with Jamerson, Entwhistle, the P-Funk players and a few others.  

And Entwistle (a big influence of mine when I first picked up a bass) claimed McCartney as an influence. So it goes on...

Edited March 16, 2019 by Bassassin
random dyslexic moment

[Al Krow]

Try playing an innovative bass line (contrast the Beatles with the standard four chord rock n roll numbers that preceded) AND singing lead and harmony vocals at the same time.

And then writing that material yourself.

And in the process coming up with some immortal songs and the occasional all time best album!

Okay I really wish he would hang his boots up now on the writing front 'cos his recent material has, how shall I put it, not been memorable! But being truthful, I'd be happy to be able to do any one of the things I've listed above 1/500th as well as he did. 

 

 

[Happy Jack]

I wonder if electrician's forums have similar threads. You know: "That Edison guy, I don't get it, what was so special about him? And don't get me started on bloody Marconi."

Presumably mathematicians have forums where very average modern-day number-crunchers debate the lack of originality in the work of Fourier and Bernoulli.

Yawn.

 

[petebassist]

1 hour ago, Fionn said:

Am I spectacularly missing something here? I’m interested to hear what folk have to say, McCartney fans especially. Give me food for thought. I’m always open to another perspective.

I guess he's been a professional musician since the 1960s and at the very top end of the business so he must be doing something right, and even if you're just talking about his bass playing, I've have him in my band any day 😉. 

[chris_b]

Just now, Happy Jack said:

I wonder if electrician's forums have similar threads. You know: "That Edison guy, I don't get it, what was so special about him?

Didn't Edison take all the credit for the inventions of the guys who worked for him? Just saying!!!!

[Happy Jack]

There you are! What did I tell you?

[yorks5stringer]

'Overrated or What'? I'd  go for WHAT?

He's still writing and performing 50 years after his heyday: compare that to his contemporaries  and whilst there has been  a drop -off compared to his earlier stuff he's still a legend. He also has a back catalogue to 'live and let die for' too..

Here's one of my faves, listen to the vox

 

[tauzero]

5 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Didn't Edison take all the credit for the inventions of the guys who worked for him? Just saying!!!!

Pete Best played all the Beatles bass lines.

[Al Krow]

22 minutes ago, petebassist said:

... and even if you're just talking about his bass playing, I've have him in my band any day 😉. 

I'm not sure I would, I suspect my band-mates would almost certainly ask me not to bother turning up to any more gigs.

Particularly if he starts getting the beers in at the end of the set.