Two of the very best 112 cabs available today?

[stevie]

7 hours ago, chris_b said:

It's a variable crossover not a volume control.

Would you back that up with some actual information?

[stevie]

3 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I was pointing out different cabs work in different ways. As an example, I’ve done two gigs at a club recently. First with the F122 and then with the CN212. Same amp. The gig with the CN212 went much better. I didn’t struggle with low end as much, and the tone out front was a lot more even. I just couldn’t get the F112 to sit properly in the mix and was more or less maxing out the amp. I don’t have the luxury of moving the cab around when Im on a tight 

knowing  your gigs helps make a  better choice of gear, and that’s my point. We don’t all gig in ideal situations. 

The F112 has a fairly extended bass response, which sounds beautifully fat and powerful on its own. It goes lower than most other bass cabs, but the price it pays is a lack of sensitivity - the normal tradeoff. It's quite common for players to find an extended low end troublesome in some playing situations.

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, stevie said:

The F112 has a fairly extended bass response, which sounds beautifully fat and powerful on its own. It goes lower than most other bass cabs, but the price it pays is a lack of sensitivity - the normal tradeoff. It's quite common for players to find an extended low end troublesome in some playing situations.

Yes, that’s my point. Not until I started gigging it did I find it wasn’t quite as suitable as I had hoped. Not knocking the cab at all but for the clubs we play the low end was more problematic than I had experience with my other cabs. 

[Al Krow]

Classic case for using a decent HPF to get the most out of that excellent cab? 

[stevie]

Or just use your tone controls.

[dave_bass5]

8 minutes ago, stevie said:

Or just use your tone controls.

Duh, i never thought of that 🙄

[dave_bass5]

45 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Classic case for using a decent HPF to get the most out of that excellent cab? 

Not really. There is noting to say the offending freq's are at the bottom of the range. A HPF wont help there.

And no, before anyone mentions it, switching to IEMs mid gig is also not an option 😉

[NancyJohnson]

10 hours ago, Pirellithecat said:

My ABM 600 through the BB2 using my PBass doesn't sound as good , that's for sure. 

For me at least, while Ashdown stuff was super reliable (I ran a small MAG set up (2x10 combo paired with a 1x15) and used a UK-built ABM rack head for a while), I would say that they needed a bit of help to get them to give me the clank.  They were very ponky, so this post stands up.

The preamps on their amps just don't drive so much and for the MAG I used a BassPOD into the effects return and the ABM with either a BDDI or whatever the rack version was (RPM/RBI, I forget).

[krispn]

18 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Not really. There is noting to say the offending freq's are at the bottom of the range. A HPF wont help there.

And no, before anyone mentions it, switching to IEMs mid gig is also not an option 😉

I was gonna say classic case for using the right cab for the gig. 

[Al Krow]

@dave_bass5you mentioned you were struggling with low end with the F112 more than the Berg, so the offending freq's must, by definition, be at the lower end? What am I missing here? 

You can obviously start cutting low end at whatever starting point you want with a variable HPF eg you can start at 80Hz with a 4 string to tighten things up (or 60 Hz with a 5 string) ie you don't need to just focus on the low end crud which something like a Thumpinator deals with, which cuts steeply from 28Hz.

@NancyJohnson have you just introduced a whole new term "ponky"? 😁

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, stevie said:

Would you back that up with some actual information?

 

Barefaced's specs indicate it's a crossover?

https://barefacedbass.com/product-range/Big-Baby-2.htm

[NancyJohnson]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

@NancyJohnson have you just introduced a whole new term "ponky"? 😁

It has it's roots when I was trying to describe the sound of my old not-functioning-properly GED2112 thing.  Whatever the fault was, it was very anti-clank and the word ponk just seemed to sum up how it sounded.  Ponk ponk ponk.

[Dood]

One of the biggest problems that is encountered over and over with cabinets that can "go low" isn't always the cabinet causing the problems. Especially if it is a premium made device designed to "go low". It's just reproducing what is being sent to it.

I seem to be the only person who mentions this yet it is SO obvious to me. I've said the same for years.

Al is right on the money concerning using a (variable) HPF as this can help fix a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Allow myself to..err.. explain.. myself. 

We know that many bass cabinets have a steep roll off in the lows. Let's use the 8x10 fridge as an example, a sealed cabinet that has a roll of starting around 50hz depending on brand etc. -That's actually handy as it acts as an HPF in its own right with respect to this example.

Here's the problem. Practically every active EQ on bass amplifiers uses a SHELVED bass control fo the lows. It may be centred at 80hz, but EVERYTHING is boosted below that point, including troublesome sub frequencies. But, as I pointed out above, that's less of a problem if the cabinet's shortcomings are actually helping keeping those sub frequencies at bay. (Even though that energy is being  wasted)

Enter a super-cabinet capable of reproducing much lower frequencies and that shelving bass control becomes a pain in the asinine. Too much low boost on the amp, pedals and bass swamps the stage with subs and the mids become less defined. Your drummer sat to the side of the cabinet at ear level will hate you. *

One solution? It is better to cut non-shelved frequencies (usually the mids) rather than boosting the highs and lows that are usually shelved. 

The Barefaced BB2 is a superb cabinet, but with anything, it's knowing whats going in to it as well as what it is capable of reproducing. 

*Mix Engineers often hate taking a post EQ signal from an amp DI (if the amp bass has been cranked in order for the bassist to make up for a cabinet's shortcomings), because what would then be sent, untreated to front of house (with big subs) is more work for them to reign in. I've tested the theory and although it was fun seeing subs drawing ungodly levels of current from the power supply, it simply was OTT for anything other than levelling buildings.

[dave_bass5]

24 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@dave_bass5you mentioned you were struggling with low end with the F112 more than the Berg, so the offending freq's must, by definition, be at the lower end? What am I missing here? 

You can obviously start cutting low end at whatever starting point you want with a variable HPF eg you can start at 80Hz with a 4 string to tighten things up (or 60 Hz with a 5 string) ie you don't need to just focus on the low end crud which something like a Thumpinator deals with, which cuts steeply from 28Hz.

@NancyJohnson have you just introduced a whole new term "ponky"? 😁

 Low end is not just one freq, could have been 93hz for all i know. My point was it really needs a notch filter and not just a HPF. I get what a HPF does, i have one (although didnt have it with me), plus do use one in the Helix when i use it, but cutting all the low end off want the ideal thing to do.

Maybe i should have said 'in the low end' rather than a blanket 'low end'.

Edited March 16, 2020 by dave_bass5

[Dood]

10 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

Barefaced's specs indicate it's a crossover?

https://barefacedbass.com/product-range/Big-Baby-2.htm

I also had it explained to me in person by the person who designed the control.

[Al Krow]

@Dood - thanks Dan, excellent & helpful post.

FWIW I've rarely found that boosting bass works when playing live, if anything I'm usually doing the opposite on either an active bass or amp EQ: cutting the bass a touch and typically giving the mids a nudge at 250 Hz (the latter more so with BF cabs than my Fearless F112). The one exception will be for slap bass where a mid cut / treble boost is more likely to be the order of the day.

12 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

It has it's roots when I was trying to describe the sound of my old not-functioning-properly GED2112 thing.  Whatever the fault was, it was very anti-clank and the word ponk just seemed to sum up how it sounded.  Ponk ponk ponk.

Gotcha "ponk" = "anti-clank" 😁

Edited March 16, 2020 by Al Krow

[Kiwi]

4 minutes ago, Dood said:

I also had it explained to me in person by the person who designed the control.

If you insist on using credibility around here, you'll spoil the fun for everyone.  

[stevie]

It is indeed a crossover, mcnach, but it's very unlikely to be a variable crossover, which is what the reviewer that Dave quoted earlier is describing. Everybody and their dog uses an L-pad on their bass cabs. When an L-pad is used, the crossover frequency does move slightly by dint of the fact that the level of the HF is being raised and lowered. But that's perfectly normal.

[Dood]

Just now, Kiwi said:

If you insist on using credibility around here, you'll spoil the fun for everyone.  

ahh... ok.. ummm, i forgot to add that he was shouting "wibble wibble!" with two pencils up his nose!

[stevie]

6 minutes ago, Dood said:

I also had it explained to me in person by the person who designed the control.

Are you going to reveal this inside knowledge?

[Kiwi]

Just now, stevie said:

Are you going to reveal this inside knowledge?

On the end of those pencils?  Eww.

[Al Krow]

17 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

 Low end is not just one freq, could have been 93hz for all i know. My point was it really needs a notch filter and not just a HPF. I get what a HPF does, i have one (although didnt have it with me), plus do use one in the Helix when i use it, but cutting all the low end off want the ideal thing to do.

Maybe i should have said 'in the low end' rather than a blanket 'low end'.

Ah I now get what you're saying i.e. it's a venue specific frequency that was causing the boominess. Absent a sound engineer who can have a listen whilst the band is playing live, and adjust on the fly taking account the number of 'bodies' in the audience etc., I don't know an easy fix other than a bit of trial and error and remembering what worked / didn't for the next time you're there.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Ah I now get what you're saying i.e. it's a venue specific frequency that was causing the boominess. Absent a sound engineer who can have a listen whilst the band is playing live I don't know an easy fix other than a bit of trial and error and remembering what worked / didn't for the next time you're there.

Yeah,. sorry if i wasn't clear. The point was i went back with the CN212 in Feb and barely touched the EQ on the amp (which as we know, are fixed freq's). Ive played that venue a few time over the years. Always had a bit of trouble with it, but the F112 was the worst. It was also lacking mid punch so a bit of a nightmare. Not the cabs fault, not really the venues fault, but the two just didn't work. Ive said it before but i found a similar issue at most of the venues i did with the F112. All wooden stages, so i had to get rid of it.

[Al Krow]

Interesting you found the F112 lacking mid punch. It has both a dedicated mid speaker and, if anything, a reputation for being strong in the mids. 

But not all marriages work and clearly this cab was not meant to be for you and your wooden stages! It's very happy to have come home 😊

[krispn]

@Al Krow do you favour other cabs over the F112 for a particular reason or is it simply a weight/size issue?