Two of the very best 112 cabs available today?

[Kiwi]

17 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Interesting you found the F112 lacking mid punch. It has both a dedicated mid speaker and, if anything, a reputation for being strong in the mids. 

But not all marriages work and clearly this cab was not meant to be for you and your wooden stages! It's very happy to have come home 😊

I was present when we tested my F112 against a BB2, Schroeder etc at the 2015 SEBassbash.  What I heard against all the other cabinets reinforced and validated why it was such a great purchase.  It was the smoothest and cleanest sounding cab...and this was from a good 12-15 rows back from the stage.  

Point is, cab comparisons often rely on what someone is used to hearing both in terms of bass and amp.  My context is a backline which is articulate and clean...faithful if you will.  So I can plug in a range of basses and not find myself having to boost frequencies between instruments to hear myself.  I've played through some backlines at Bassbashes and struggled to hear myself with all the woolly, unfocussed low end and lo-fi high end.  If I had that at a gig, I'd be struggling.  What I learned from that was different players are aiming for different things.  Some want to immerse themselves in lo fi flub, others want pick attack to compete with guitars and yet others want the instrument and nothing but the instrument to shine through.

I think it's very important to tailor amp to bass.  Some amps suck the midrange out like SWR SM400 and the Eden WT800.  So playing mid scooped basses ends up in a situation where it's next to impossible to hear anything but tick and woof in the on stage mix...AND SOME GOSPEL PLAYERS like that. I would like to see how well they manage fretless though.  However SWR amps sound great with mid rangey basses like Status or Modulus.  

For a while I was playing Smiths and played them through one of the most aggressive, growliest rock amps out there, a GK RB700.  The Smith was all about scooped mids, full (sometimes flabby) lows and mellow highs, the GK was all about pick attack and midrange.  It sounded fantastic because they complimented each others shortcomings so well. 

[Al Krow]

22 minutes ago, krispn said:

@Al Krow do you favour other cabs over the F112 for a particular reason or is it simply a weight/size issue?

The F112 is a more articulate, balanced and capable cab than my BF SC, but it is double the weight despite being approx the same size. The BB2 is nearer the F112 in terms of hitting the mark sonically but closer to the SC in weight, so potentially a really good compromise. 

So, yes, primarily portability in terms of why the SC, which is still a very good cab indeed and an undoubted step up from my predecessor Markbass cab it replaced, has hung around so long in my set up. And it's plenty 'good enough' for rehearsals and gigs. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Al Krow

[dave_bass5]

24 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Interesting you found the F112 lacking mid punch. It has both a dedicated mid speaker and, if anything, a reputation for being strong in the mids. 

But not all marriages work and clearly this cab was not meant to be for you and your wooden stages! It's very happy to have come home 😊

To be fair i found the cab lacking in mids on a solid floor as well. Ill file it with the BB2 in the 'just not my thing' category, and also put it down to my pick playing.

Would you ever consider gigging it again (i believe its only had one?)at a gig were you weren't just using it as a stage monitor? Might give you more of an idea of what it can and cant achieve, and how the  Fletcher–Munson curve effects it once its out of your basement. I do get that its a home cab only for you though.

Edited March 16, 2020 by dave_bass5

[Kiwi]

2 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

To be fair i found the cab lacking in mids on a solid floor as well. Ill file it with the BB2 in the 'just not my thing' category, and also put it down to my pick playing.

Would you ever consider gigging it again (i believe its only had one?)at a gig were you weren't just using it as a stage monitor? Might give you more of an idea of what it can and cant achieve. I do get that its a home cab only for you though/

Have you considered a GK RB700 1x15 combo?  They have a tiltback feature like the F112 if that's helpful.

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Would you ever consider gigging it again (i believe its only had one?) at a gig were you weren't just using it as a stage monitor? Might give you more of an idea of what it can and cant achieve, and how the  Fletcher–Munson curve effects it once its out of your basement. I do get that its a home cab only for you though.

I'll do you a deal - I'll gig it the very next time you decide to come to hear us play and don't pull out at the last minute 😁

You can then report back what the audience is hearing and also how crap I am on bass!

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, Kiwi said:

Have you considered a GK RB700 1x15 combo?  They have a tiltback feature like the F112 if that's helpful.

No, although i do use a GKMB800.

Thats another thing. I thought the tilt back idea was a good one, but as all my gigs rely on me producing the out front sound as well as on stage, pointing the cab at my ears was painful. The F112 is very clear at close quarters.

My comments come from me listening at distance though, not close up. Close up everything was nice and punchy. Maybe a bit too clear, but i could hear every note and string noise.  Walk out in the room and i felt a lot of that just disappeared/got covered up by the band. I couldnt really boost the top end as it was bright enough at my playing position.

[dave_bass5]

7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I'll do you a deal - I'll gig it the very next time you decide to come to hear us play and don't pull out at the last minute 😁

You can then report back what the audience is hearing and also how crap I am on bass!

Let me know when you are playing at the pub in BG again and ill make more of an effort 🙂

The thing is, im not suggesting the cab is rubbish at all, quite the opposite, it sounds amazing. it just didn't work for me with the band, and i really do put that down to how i play and that i prefer a more coloured cab.

Edited March 16, 2020 by dave_bass5

[Kiwi]

5 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

No, although i do use a GKMB800.

Thats another thing. I thought the tilt back idea was a good one, but as all my gigs rely on me producing the out front sound as well as on stage, pointing the cab at my ears was painful. The F112 is very clear at close quarters.

My comments come from me listening at distance though, not close up. Close up everything was nice and punchy. Maybe a bit too clear, but i could hear every note and string noise.  Walk out in the room and i felt a lot of that just disappeared/got covered up by the band. I couldnt really boost the top end as it was bright enough at my playing position.

Two thoughts: 
1) Have you got a compressor in your backline?  For someone with a pick, I'd expect a bit of compression to avoid icepick in ear type experiences.
2) Are you using your cab without PA support?  Then yeah, the F112 would be too honest out front I guess unless you swapped the amp for something a little vintagey-ier, maybe with tubes.  Or you could go for a 2x12 I guess and lose the tweeter completely if you have PA support.

Or maybe get a tube compressor, but it will probably need to sit with the amp as most pedalboard power supplies won't be powerful enough to work with it.

[dave_bass5]

Just now, Kiwi said:

Two thoughts: 
1) Have you got a compressor in your backline?  For someone with a pick, I'd expect a bit of compression to avoid icepick in ear type experiences.
2) Are you using your cab without PA support?  Then yeah, the F112 would be too honest I guess unless you swapped the amp for something a little vintagey-ier, maybe with tubes.  Or you could go for a 2x12 I guess and lose the tweeter completely if you have PA support.

Or maybe get a tube compressor, but it will probably need to sit with the amp as most power supplies won't work with it.

No, not using a comp (then, i am now, and have done over the years no and off). Never needed it in the past. Saying that, i did experiment with comps in the Helix at the time, but never really got on with them.

Never use PA support. Tried a MB800, Quiter BB800, settled on a Fender Rumble 800D (which, being the most vintage proves your point). In fact im sticking with that head for now, pairs really well with my CN212.

[funkle]

I’ve owned, played, and gigged most of the cabs in discussion here. 
 

the F112 has a huge low end (Which extends lower than nearly any other bass cab) which can swamp the mids live. You either turn down the bass or boost the mids, with hand position, pickup choice, effects, EQ, etc. But the F112 puts out a lot more energy in the 50-80Hz range than most cabs. It can and will seem mid shy depending on the signal fed to it, in the live situation. At home it is extremely even through all frequencies but has the pronounced low end. 

The Berg CN112 is not the same as the CN212. The 212 would handle I think any gig capably, within its volume limits. The CN112 is noticeably a fraction bass shy at home, but otherwise even sounding driver. I never quite gelled with the tweeter. The 212 combo improves the bass output. Either cab excels on the gig in terms of audibility as the mids are prominent by comparison to the bass region. But they can sound bass shy at home and boosting on EQ doesn’t replace all of that. Great cabs. 

The BB2 has a crossover that allows more signal to be fed to the 12” driver rather than the horn as it is turned. So at one end of the turn, the horn gets fed all high frequency info, and the other end, all HF info sent to the 12” driver with the other signal. It doesn’t just act like a volume control on the HF driver. 
 

 

[dave_bass5]

6 minutes ago, funkle said:

I’ve owned, played, and gigged most of the cabs in discussion here. 
 

the F112 has a huge low end (Which extends lower than nearly any other bass cab) which can swamp the mids live. You either turn down the bass or boost the mids, with hand position, pickup choice, effects, EQ, etc. But the F112 puts out a lot more energy in the 50-80Hz range than most cabs. It can and will seem mid shy depending on the signal fed to it, in the live situation. At home it is extremely even through all frequencies but has the pronounced low end. 

The Berg CN112 is not the same as the CN212. The 212 would handle I think any gig capably, within its volume limits. The CN112 is noticeably a fraction bass shy at home, but otherwise even sounding driver. I never quite gelled with the tweeter. The 212 combo improves the bass output. Either cab excels on the gig in terms of audibility as the mids are prominent by comparison to the bass region. But they can sound bass shy at home and boosting on EQ doesn’t replace all of that. Great cabs. 

The BB2 has a crossover that allows more signal to be fed to the 12” driver rather than the horn as it is turned. So at one end of the turn, the horn gets fed all high frequency info, and the other end, all HF info sent to the 12” driver with the other signal. It doesn’t just act like a volume control on the HF driver. 
 

 

Put waaaay better than i did. Thanks for that post.

[Al Krow]

HEALTH (WALLET) WARNING ABOUT STARTING THREADS LIKE THIS (note to self)

If you scroll back to the OP a year back I had neither of the two cabs I was asking for your views on.

[stevie]

37 minutes ago, funkle said:

The BB2 has a crossover that allows more signal to be fed to the 12” driver rather than the horn as it is turned. So at one end of the turn, the horn gets fed all high frequency info, and the other end, all HF info sent to the 12” driver with the other signal. It doesn’t just act like a volume control on the HF driver.

What are you basing this on, Pete?

[stevie]

Answering my own question:

"With the HF control at max you hear everything upwards of ~3kHz coming from the tweeter. Turn the HF control down and the crossover point gradually shifts upwards so more of your tone comes from the 12” driver, giving a wide variety of sonic options." From the Barefaced manual.

Still doesn't make it a "variable crossover". Unless someone can provide a circuit diagram or a photo of the crossover, or explain how a variable crossover can be implemented passively at a reasonable cost, I'll stick with my original assumption. Those who believe in magic are welcome to do so.

[Dood]

38 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

HEALTH (WALLET) WARNING ABOUT STARTING THREADS LIKE THIS (note to self)

If you scroll back to the OP a year back I had neither of the two cabs I was asking for your views on.

Haha, yes, BassChat has ended up costing me a whole bunch too! 

[funkle]

25 minutes ago, stevie said:

What are you basing this on, Pete?

It’s on the BF website and it’s how it audibly worked when I owned one. I found it interesting to hear how highs were presented differently through the horn and through the 12” driver. The 12” driver doesn’t go anywhere near as high as the horn but it goes prob around 3-4K and it sounded very old school. 

[funkle]

Ah @stevie you found the bit on the website. Good. You can interpret it better than I can. 

[dave_bass5]

18 minutes ago, stevie said:

Those who believe in magic are welcome to do so.

That covers a lot of members on here then 😂

[Al Krow]

35 minutes ago, fabbabass said:

How does the Fearless compare? I have a BB2, but am intrigued by the reviews of the Fearless cabs.

Pulling you onto this thread if I may.

I've actually now got both a BB2 and a Fearless 112 - one of the pitfalls of starting a thread eh? 😁 I've not, unfortunately, had a chance to try the BB2 out in anger yet as I literally bought just a few days before the national lockdown was announced back in March - so I would recommend you check the opening posts for some really good comparisons - particularly @funkle's.

And you'll have probably seen that there is a vgc F112 on for a great price in the FS - I've been very tempted to get it myself as a pairing for my existing F112, but I suspect there won't be too many occasions with my bands that would justify having a pair of them on stage! 

[dave_bass5]

Ive gigged both a F112 and BB2. Didnt really get on with either in the end, but in hindsight the BB2 seemed fuller and thicker. 

I felt the F112 was too clear. Definitely not flat, and with quite a big low end, but didnt have the overall ‘girth’ the BB2 had (and i never felt either had the girth of a more radial cab). It had the clarity, and mid ‘poke’, but didnt seem to sit in the mix well. It was always a bit to clear.  I didnt like the BB2 much as that too has quite a big. low end, which i felt dominated the other freq’s, but looking back, threw BB2 seemed to sit in the mix better. 

I did have a good enough tone with both at gigs, but i never found either to be what i was really looking for. Given the choice, I’d go for the BB2, if for nothing else its so much lighter and easier to carry. 

[Al Krow]

On 12/10/2020 at 23:33, dave_bass5 said:

I felt the F112 was too clear.

Definitely not flat, and with quite a big low end...It had the clarity, and mid ‘poke’,

...the BB2, if for nothing else its so much lighter and easier to carry. 

All of the above points I agree with - except that they are all positives for me! I love my cabs to have clarity and articulation and the F112 delivers this in spades (and I'm sure the BB2 will too). Here's a clip I've posted elsewhere of the F112 in action, live - have a listen through decent headphones if you can - I thought the bass cut through / sounded fine in the mix?

Edited May 9, 2021 by Al Krow

[Jazzjames]

On 13/10/2020 at 08:25, Al Krow said:

All of the above points I agree with - except that they are all positives for me! I love my cabs to have clarity and articulation and the F112 delivers this in spades (and I'm sure the BB2 will too). Here's a clip I've posted elsewhere of the F112 in action, live - have a listen through decent headphones if you can - I thought the bass cut through / sounded fine in the mix?

 

Cab sounds good.

 

FYI the 5th note of the main riff should be a b5 (Bb) not a 5 (B) like you guys are playing it.

[dave_bass5]

I’m guessing the camcorder and PA have a lot to do with how the bass sounds in that recording, but it does sound good whatever. 

[Al Krow]

8 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

I’m guessing the camcorder and PA have a lot to do with how the bass sounds in that recording, but it does sound good whatever. 

Yeah, shame you weren't there (a) to hear it in person and (b) to do us a much better video recording with your talented photography and videographer hat on! 

[dave_bass5]

Just now, Al Krow said:

Yeah, shame you weren't there (a) to hear it in person and (b) to do us a much better video recording with your talented photography and videographer hat on! 

Although ive said i didnt get on with it, the 3 gigs i did with it weren’t  too bad, although i still think on a crappy hollow stage its not an ideal cab to use, even with a Gramma pad. Took a lot of EQ’ing. 

When this mess is all over ill get to one of your gigs and will do you proud 👍