Two of the very best D class amps available today?

[Cuzzie]

Tech21 dUg Ultrabass 1000

[Osiris]

10 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Agreed these threads are not for everyone. If they don't work for you then that's cool.

 

But that's not the point of what I am trying to understand! 

I do occasionally read these type of threads but what I want to understand is when someone states that Product X is the best bass/amp/pedal/whatever few people actually say why, or explain how they arrived at that conclusion. And that's what I want to understand. Maybe it's the scientist in me but when someone makes a claim I want to see the evidence in support of that claim, to test the validity of it. Otherwise it's just an unsubstantiated opinion. As Christopher Hitchens once said "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence". 

As I said in my previous post, I have no doubt that the two amps you have chosen are great. But why those particular two? What were your selection criteria? Why didn't you include some of the other suggestions in this thread? How and why are these the best? 

I'm not trying to be difficult, no more than usual anyway, and I appreciate that this is all a bit of fun and that maybe I'm just over thinking the whole thing. I just want to know why and understand some of the claims. 

I'll just sign of by saying that the Mini Metro is the greatest car of all time. 

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

Tech21 dUg Ultrabass 1000

Well that's the second time you've mentioned this bad boy on this thread, so it's clearly no laughing matter. 

These have been out for a couple of years now, did you get one in the end or does your dUg pedal deliver the essence of this in pedal form for you? 

[Cuzzie]

😁

I am the full dUg

[ped]

Who on earth is this dUg character I keep hearing about 

[Cuzzie]

dUg Pinnick offa Kings X, KXM, Pinnick Gales Pridgeon, Grinder Blues, Supershine, Poundhound to name a few. Purveyor of a 12 string bass as well.

One of the greatest rock tones you’ll ever hear and will stand shoulder to shoulder with someone like Glenn Hughes as a bassist/vocalist of some repute and a massive influence to a whole generation of players and bands.

For a short description.

The amp is brutally phenomenal and the DP3X pedal is absolute gold dust and won a plethora of awards last year for best or top 3 pedals released

Unashamedly, I am a massive fan and coincidentally would claim to be a middle aged spread Lardy version of him without the talent.

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Cuzzie

[ped]

Ah right thanks. I’ve never listened to those bands 👍🏻

[Cuzzie]

Happy to help, it’s not everyone’s cuppa but for Kings X check out the Album Out of the Silent planet - the song ‘Power of love’ you get a real sense of the tone and ‘what is this’

Dogman album ‘Black the sky’ and most the album is deep and gnarly.

One of the original bi-amping few which now the head does in a tiny box albeit slightly heavier than @Al Krow‘s weight limit

[ped]

As long as it’s not punk I’ll give it a spin 😎

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, ped said:

Who on earth is this dUg character I keep hearing about 

Haha, glad I'm not the only person to regularly ask that question 😂

Edited March 21, 2019 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

not Sure who that reflects better or worse on?!

[Al Krow]

Just now, Cuzzie said:

not Sure who that reflects better or worse on?!

Oh I'm sure dUg (rightly!) doesn't give a flying F that this particular unheard of bassist (me) is not his groupie. 

[Cuzzie]

I was talking about you and ped!!!!

And I suppose me too!

Edited March 21, 2019 by Cuzzie

[afterimage]

On 20/03/2019 at 22:24, Al Krow said:

Good man. What are you pairing it with in terms of bass and cab?

How would you describe the tone?

It's paired with a HDN 2x12

I was going for a single cab  but ended up importing from Germany

The tone is very clear   and articulate you have a excellent EQ section on  the Bamp

 

 

[Al Krow]

@Dood another great review, thanks.

There's almost too much going on with this amp in terms of functionality (including semi-parametric across all EQ settings) but I suspect with a bit of time invested folk will be able to pretty quickly get their head around it and save favourite settings to preset for quick access.

My only niggle is that it boasts of being 700W @ 4 ohms, but doesn't give an 8 ohm power rating. So I presume its 350W at 8 ohms, which would rule it out for me particularly if I was having to part with £1,200. Would have the welly to drive the low end of a quality Fearless F112 cab? It seems to be missing a key ingredient of any quality amp which, for me, is simply to amplify with headroom to spare. 

[Al Krow]

On 21/03/2019 at 06:50, Osiris said:

But that's not the point of what I am trying to understand! 

I do occasionally read these type of threads but what I want to understand is when someone states that Product X is the best bass/amp/pedal/whatever few people actually say why, or explain how they arrived at that conclusion. And that's what I want to understand. Maybe it's the scientist in me but when someone makes a claim I want to see the evidence in support of that claim, to test the validity of it. Otherwise it's just an unsubstantiated opinion. As Christopher Hitchens once said "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence". 

As I said in my previous post, I have no doubt that the two amps you have chosen are great. But why those particular two? What were your selection criteria? Why didn't you include some of the other suggestions in this thread? How and why are these the best? 

I'm not trying to be difficult, no more than usual anyway, and I appreciate that this is all a bit of fun and that maybe I'm just over thinking the whole thing. I just want to know why and understand some of the claims. 

I'll just sign off by saying that the Mini Metro is the greatest car of all time. 

You make some very fair points, dear chap.

Why did I choose these particular two amps for comparison? 

Well first off, I'm not assuming that they are the best D-class amps - hence the question-mark in the thread title.

But to answer your Q: IMO they look great both in terms of design and feature set, they're very current, and if money was no object then I'd be tempted to get one or t'other. I also thought it would make for an interesting thread that could potentially be informative to me and others.

I'll just sign off, if I may, by saying you have very poor taste in cars.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Al Krow

[Dan Dare]

On ‎22‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 21:36, Al Krow said:

I'll just sign off, if I may, by saying you have very poor taste in cars.

You're both wrong. The Morris Marina was the best car ever made 😁. I know. I had three of them.

[scrumpymike]

26 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

You're both wrong. The Morris Marina was the best car ever made 😁. I know. I had three of them.

Presumably 3 at the same time to ensure you stayed mobile 😉

[Dragonlord]

On 22/03/2019 at 23:28, Al Krow said:

@Dood another great review, thanks.

There's almost too much going on with this amp in terms of functionality (including semi-parametric across all EQ settings) but I suspect with a bit of time invested folk will be able to pretty quickly get their head around it and save favourite settings to preset for quick access.

My only niggle is that it boasts of being 700W @ 4 ohms, but doesn't give an 8 ohm power rating. So I presume its 350W at 8 ohms, which would rule it out for me particularly if I was having to part with £1,200. Would have the welly to drive the low end of a quality Fearless F112 cab? It seems to be missing a key ingredient of any quality amp which, for me, is simply to amplify with headroom to spare. 

It does give an 8 ohm power rating, and it is indeed 350W (just check out the product page https://bergantino.com/product/bamp/ ). BTW you can also choose the Q on the parametric EQ for each band among narrow/medium/wide. I know it can seem a little intimidating, but the cool thing is that you can basically ignore the menus and use it like a "plain" amp. But I love the extra options and it also has a very good parallel compressor. And the overdrive/distortion/fuzz are getting better and better with each update! I have mine paired with an Audiokinesis TC212 and couldn't be happier. The only amp that put me to thoughts is the new Forte HP, but I'll wait to see if they make a B|Amp HP as well, I'm spoiled by all the options the B|Amp offers. If 350W@8ohm seems low, just go with the Forte HP. I'm sure the WD800 is an amazing amp as well though (but, same power section as the B|Amp AFAIK).

[HazBeen]

2 words A/B class

.... I would have expected Jules Monique on the shortlist. What a great sound. But to be fair, the Mesa and Bamp deserve a spot (although I would say the D800+ should be on, the WD is still largely unproven).

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, Dragonlord said:

It does give an 8 ohm power rating, and it is indeed 350W (just check out the product page https://bergantino.com/product/bamp/ ). 

I have to smile.

So 700W @ 4ohms = 350W @ 8 ohms.

Simples, right?

So when I suggested earlier today that 500W @ 4 ohms = 250W @ 8 ohms, I got told that wasn't the case... it would be more like 350W @ 8 ohms

13 hours ago, xgsjx said:

Sorry Al, this likely isn't the issue.  Watts work in an "up to" kind of way.  With an 8Ω cab attached to a 500w amp, the amp will send up to 350w, but that's if the amp is being fully pushed.  

So I have no idea who to be believing on this stuff, the manufacturers or more-expert-than-me BC'ers? 

[xgsjx]

17 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I have to smile.

So 700W @ 4ohms = 350W @ 8 ohms.

Simples, right?

So when I suggested earlier today that 500W @ 4 ohms = 250W @ 8 ohms, I got told that wasn't the case... it would be more like 350W @ 8 ohms

So I have no idea who to be believing on this stuff, the manufacturers or more-expert-than-me BC'ers? 

With amps, it’s usualy the case that 8 ohm = @  2/3 of the watts of 4 ohm.  There may well be exceptions though. 

With most manufacturers, the guys putting the specs isn’t always the same as the guys who make/design things. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by xgsjx

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

With amps, it’s usualy the case that 8 ohm = @     2/3 of the watts of 4 ohm.  There may well be exceptions though. 

Here's an example to support your thesis.

The DG M900 puts out > 900W at 4 ohms.

There is a 2ohm selector switch which effectively cuts the power output to the cab. The DG spec states:

• "Min-Load: Press when using a 2Ω load. You can use this control to lower the output if your 4Ω cabinet is not able to handle more than 500W (you can also get 350W with an 8Ω cabinet in this configuration)."

It's the bit in brackets that I'd never really taken on board before, but completely ties in with what you're saying.

So scaling up, my DG M900 will put out around 950W through a 4 ohm cab and around 600W through an 8 ohm cab. Nice  

[Dragonlord]

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I have to smile.

So 700W @ 4ohms = 350W @ 8 ohms.

Simples, right?

So when I suggested earlier today that 500W @ 4 ohms = 250W @ 8 ohms, I got told that wasn't the case... it would be more like 350W @ 8 ohms

So I have no idea who to be believing on this stuff, the manufacturers or more-expert-than-me BC'ers? 

From what I understand, those specs are to be taken with a grain of salt to some extent. I've read that it's usually not exactly half the power at twice the resistance. It could be like 680W@4 ohm and 378W@8 ohm, and the manufacturer will say 700/350 for simplicity (Bergantino already having 8 ohm cabs rated at 350W when the B|Amp was released could also have something to do with it - just guessing). Then there is the amount of distortion the manufacturers feel OK with. For example, the B|Amp, WD800 and your DG M900 all have the same ICE power amp. IIRC, Bergantino publishes power ratings with 1% distortion, whereas Darkglass allows 20% distortion or something like that. So the same power module can give more watts, but not at the same quality after some point.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Dragonlord

[xgsjx]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Here's an example to support your thesis.

The DG M900 puts out > 900W at 4 ohms.

There is a 2ohm selector switch which effectively cuts the power output to the cab. The DG spec states:

• "Min-Load: Press when using a 2Ω load. You can use this control to lower the output if your 4Ω cabinet is not able to handle more than 500W (you can also get 350W with an 8Ω cabinet in this configuration)."

It's the bit in brackets that I'd never really taken on board before, but completely ties in with what you're saying.

So scaling up, my DG M900 will put out around 950W through a 4 ohm cab and around 600W through an 8 ohm cab. Nice  

The other thing to take into account is the watts from the amp is not a constant. If you plug a cab into your amp & play nothing, then you have a minimal amount of watts going to the cab. You can plug any wattage of cab into your amp & it be fine... Just use your ears & don’t start at high volume with a new amp/cab until you know it’s limits (the signal from your bass will also have an impact on this too).  

Alex of Barefaced once said that he blew a larger watt rated driver with a relatively small amp.  Watts in a speakers rating are the thermal measurement for the voicecoil (how much heat it can take).