Making double bass more like an 'electric'

[randythoades]

Very bizarre concept I know, particularly for this part of the forum, and I don't want to start an argument, just looking for some suggestions...

My current band (a modern slightly jazzy take on rock and roll, jive and swing) has just single guitar, drums and bass. The others prefer the sound of electric bass to really fill out that bottom end but I want to play the upright (partially because I prefer it, partially because I have on going shoulder issues which makes wearing an electric bass uncomfortable). So currently I play my Stagg EUB almost exclusively which allows me to boost the bass without the feedback which works for the most but I am struggling to replicate that with my actual upright and I would prefer to use it over the Stagg - I use steel strings (either Blast Cult Lowlifes or Spiro Weic)h and Krivo magnetic pickup - but it still sounds too 'double bass' like for them. They like the sort of sound that Lee Rocker used to have in the 80s with steel strings and magnetic pickup but I can't seem to work out exactly what he used or how he did it.

Would it help if I went up to a higher tension on the strings and played with a lighter touch? Would that create less of the finger noise that seems to make it sound more double bass like? Is there a less detailed magnetic pickup that I could try - or I can maybe build my own out of a P Bass pickup and build a support frame for it?

Cheers

[petebassist]

Have you tried to dial in a more electric tone with a preamp or pedal ? I use a KK Pure Preamp (mid, and treble controls plus an internal gain trimmer) to dial in a more acoustic tone if I play somewhere with a tinny PA, so something like basic EQ controls would enable you to get the tone you want.

[randythoades]

I tried one of the Fishman preamps, but this gave it more acoustic 'air' so I just started going straight into an amp, but I do have the Mesa Boogie Subway DI for my electric bass so I might give that a go (I go straight into PA with electric bass as we all used IEM). Strangely, I used a touch of reverb and TC Electronic Body Rez on my Stagg to make it feel less 'flat' and to dail out some of that piezo quack but didn't really consider using preamp on my regular upright.

I can't quite work out why my Stagg with piezo pickup can give that fat fretless bass sound but I can't get my upright to do the same. I am always loathe to boost bass and swamp the sound so maybe I need to cut some of the upper frequencies or high mids. Thanks, I will dig out my Subway DI and give it a go next week at rehearsal with a flat amp.

I suppose along similar lines, using my Ashdown head would give me a different approach than my Phil Jones so might take both. Back in the day an Ampeg SVT with 8x10 cab seemed to be the thing but I need to fit all my gear and a full PA into my car so need to keep my own rig quite small.

[TheRev]

In my experience, EUBs sound more fretless bass guitar like because they have more sustain/resonate less than a double bass, so to make a DB sustain more/resonate less, I'd use the Spiro weich, block up your f-holes, maybe stick something (bar towel?) between the tailpiece and top and then switch the Krivo for something less microphonic like a schaller magnetic pickup.

I bought a Kent Armstrong magnetic double bass pickup a while ago as it was going cheap - it's much more 'electric' sounding than the Krivo as it only picks up the string vibration and none of the body resonance.

 

You're welcome to give it  try if you want?   

Edited March 22, 2019 by TheRev

[randythoades]

Thanks for the offer Rev, much appreciated, I may well take you up on that offer. Where are you based?

I will try that idea of blocking up the f holes and damping the resonance first, sounds like a reasonable observation, it does definitely sound like it has far too much 'air'. I had a slimline bass from Thomann a couple of years ago but sold it on when I moved house and it certainly used to amplify better than my current squeeze, but it was half the depthc of a standard bass.

An acquaintance locally did have a Kent Armstrong pickup too a while ago which he didn't like so I may talk to him about what he didn't like.

[TheRev]

I'm in Bristol but I can post it to you if you want to try it.

I've just had a little play with it, because of this thread and it's actually quite nice. Very clean sounding and certainly 'sterile' compated to the Krivo, but I'd be happy to use it as a backup....which is why I bought it.

[Beer of the Bass]

I feel like some piezo pickups have more of that thick, compressed tone that's easy to work with but not so natural.  The K&K Bass Max or the inexpensive J-Tone "Big" pickups on eBay have that type of character. 

[randythoades]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will try these out at the next couple of rehearsals and see if anything works.

TheRev: I happened to catch up with the guy locally that had used the Kent Armstrong pickup and he didn't like it for exactly those reasons, a bit sterile, and not enough finger noise. He still had it so I am borrowing his to try, to save you posting one out (very much apprecaited by the way, a very kind and trusting off to make!). He also wants to keep it as a backup so if it works I will contact Armostrong and get one made.

Thanks for the input!

[Beedster]

Mag pickup, simple. Its sounding too much like a P-Bass is the reason I stopped using it (still have it sitting around somewhere) 

[randythoades]

Hi Beedster:

I have been using the Krivo magnetic pickup but it still sounds very double bass like to me, I still get those nice overtones, ambience and finger noise but I can't seem to dial in the big fat sound that I have in my head, but I can using the EUB. When I played a little while with a folky country band it was perfect, but this band seems to need / want a different tone. On TheRev's sggestion I am going to try out an Armstong pickup which I am led to believe is a bit less detailed and run just it into my normal electric rig to dial out some of the offending frequencies.

[Beedster]

Agreed, mine was a KA also, good luck mate. C

[Maude]

Compressor. 

We do a range of bizarre covers in bizarre styles. Long story but we were trying Dark Necessities by Red Hot Chili Peppers, I was struggling with the G string sounding weak as I couldn't get a decent pluck due to speed/amount of notes so I tried a compressor pedal that was to hand to help bring the weaker notes up to volume. It worked but made it very electric bass sounding. Maybe worth a try? 

[DanOwens]

I'd look at adding a bit of dirt, too. I can get my carved thumping beauty sounding like a P bass with a bit of drive.

Edited March 28, 2019 by DanOwens

[randythoades]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Update: Had my first rehearsal last night using some of the suggestions. Firstly I tried the Kent Armstong pickup into my regular Phil Jones bass rig - was ok, but not quite what I wanted, still sounded too detailed and double bass like, so then I went from my pedalboard preamp into a Carlsbro keyboard amp that was in the studio. A major step up closer to what I was after! I had to remove a lot of the low bass as it got very woolly very quickly, but it was a flatter sound just from my Mesa preamp DI and sounded both very 'electric' and punchy at the same time. I might try compressor as also suggested, just to smooth out the delivery, but the other guys were very happy with the sound so I didn't need to use my EUB at all.

So, thanks to all those suggestions, it has put me a lot closer than where I was a week ago.