Thoughts on Compression!!! A ha.....

[The GroovyPlucker]

no I'm not from Norwich...

Anyway, I've never tried a compressor which sounded good, always ended up sounding wooly, maybe it's because I don't really know how to use them, quite likely that they were on a cheap(ish) multi fx board.

Anyhow, seeing as I'm now running a separates pedal board I decided to look into, saw Scott of Scott's Bass Lines using one and it seemed to work really well, then I saw a demo of this, MXR Bass Innovations Bass Compressor, and again it seemed great.

I'd be running a bass synth, with a deluxe big muff and a few other pedals, is it worth the outlay on the MXR? seems to be the best of them out there?

Cheers

Mark

[dodge_bass]

8 hours ago, The GroovyPlucker said:

no I'm not from Norwich...

Anyway, I've never tried a compressor which sounded good, always ended up sounding wooly, maybe it's because I don't really know how to use them, quite likely that they were on a cheap(ish) multi fx board.

Anyhow, seeing as I'm now running a separates pedal board I decided to look into, saw Scott of Scott's Bass Lines using one and it seemed to work really well, then I saw a demo of this, MXR Bass Innovations Bass Compressor, and again it seemed great.

I'd be running a bass synth, with a deluxe big muff and a few other pedals, is it worth the outlay on the MXR? seems to be the best of them out there?

Cheers

Mark

I’d always use a compressor with monitoring LED’s and as many parameters as possible. I use the Empress Compressor but this one is pretty good too. 

[itu]

Is there still some bassist who has not visited these pages? Do it now: http://www.ovnilab.com/

If the compressor is somewhat an odd animal, the parameters should be studied, like how attack affects the softness or tightness of the sound. It is good to start from the envelope:

ADSR = attack, decay, sustain, release.

[dannybuoy]

14 hours ago, The GroovyPlucker said:

seems to be the best of them out there?

Far from it! There are plenty out there regarded as 'better'. Personally I've been happiest with the TC Spectracomp, which also happens to be the smallest and cheapest by far from the ones I've tried.

[Sté]

Mine is the Keeley bassist:

 

[MartinB]

Keeley Bassist is superb. The other day I noticed I'd chipped the paint on mine, and just for a second I thought, "Oh no, the resale value!". Then I realised that this is the only pedal I can't imagine ever wanting to sell 😄

[Al Krow]

Let's make that three in a row for the Keeley.

It's very transparent so don't expect it to nicely colour your tone, it won't.

It's also a great limiter. One of the best. That's what it's ended up being on my board.

[The GroovyPlucker]

20 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Let's make that three in a row for the Keeley.

It's very transparent so don't expect it to nicely colour your tone, it won't.

It's also a great limiter. One of the best. That's what it's ended up being on my board.

better bet than the mxr then??

[Al Krow]

22 minutes ago, The GroovyPlucker said:

better bet than the mxr then??

They're both pretty transparent. 

It doesn't have the fancy lights that MXR has, if that's important for you. 

It has less control over parameters than the MXR has, unless you get the Keeley Pro version. 

But it knocks it out of the park when it comes to being a limiter. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

Two confessions:

1) Like @dannybuoy I'm also using a TC Spectracomp (not the Keeley) as my comp at the start of the chain.

2) If I was buying all over, instead of the Keeley I'd probably be tempted to get this:

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Al Krow

[bloke_zero]

It's probably one of those things where 'best' is pretty subjective - transparent is great unless you want the fat thick limited sound.

Personally I like to have a blend knob so you can squash if you want and then add the original back in parallel to keep some dynamics and transients that keep the timing sounding tight without 'smearing'.  That said, there is a hell of a lot to be said for something straight forwardly good sounding like the keeley where you don't have to fool about with too many settings.

[Osiris]

On 25/03/2019 at 22:12, The GroovyPlucker said:

 

Anyway, I've never tried a compressor which sounded good, always ended up sounding wooly, maybe it's because I don't really know how to use them,

Compression is topic that regularly crops up on here and there is great deal of misunderstanding about it as well as a few urban myths associated with their use. You really need to understand what a compressor does and how the various controls available to you do in order to get the best out of them. When used correctly they can transparently smooth your dynamics, or add some controlled squash, make the bass big, consistent and punchy sounding or even add some pleasing tonal colouration to your sound. When used incorrectly they invariably choke the living daylights out of your sound. 

If you want to get the best out of a compressor it's definitely worth the time and effort to do your homework first. 

One of the biggest misconceptions about compression is that people expect to hear it as an obvious effect like a distortion or a delay. You can set it to be an obvious effect but that is almost always going to be detrimental to your sound. Some folks set it up so they can hear it squashing their sound but by then you have usually gone too far. Less is more with effective compression. 

My advice would be to first and foremost do your homework. Read up online and see what the controls do and how people are using them. You might be better off trawling the sound engineering type forums rather than basschat if you want a more objective opinion on the subject!!! And it'd be wise to avoid any opinions that contain the usual gripes about compression killing your dynamics (which it does if you don't what to do with one) and the reasoning that some folks can completely control their dynamics with their fingers (which is to misunderstand the effective use of compression). 

As part of your homework, a great and cheap way to experiment with several different compressor types is to get the Zoom MS-60B multi-fx pedal. This unit has several different compression models in, each with their own flavour and all usable in their own way, my personal favourite is the model of the dbx 160 which is adds punch and a touch of darkness to your tone - just how I like it! Have a play with them and see what they individually offer. Play with extreme settings as well as more subtle ones in order to get a feel for what they are doing to your signal. Compression is usually more apparent in a band mix and at a reasonable volume than just messing about at home, so if you play with other musicians, take that opportunity to apply what you have learnt and use it in a real world situation.  

If you don't want to do your homework buy the TC Electronics Spectracomp as it does all the thinking for you and gives you a great, versatile compression pedal for a modest outlay!

[The GroovyPlucker]

i think this is my problem with compressors, never really tinkered with them, having said that I've not used more than one fx at a time before, well not often, not sure I will be doing anyway, more over wanted to smooth out my aggressive finger style a bit, but also tame any peaks when using fx such as distortion & synth, I may end up not going down the compressor route but I think it's handy to have one, also not sure where it will go in the chain of fx but that's another matter for another thread

[thodrik]

Keeley Bassist for me since it was pretty much announced in circa 2014. 

It can be very transparent if you want it to be. If you want to dial it up to 'slapville' it can do that as well. Also you can turn the compression off completely and use it as a volume boost/cut. 

Works great on guitars too. 

There are probably better/more flexible compressors available than the Keeley now. However, I don't get excited by compressors, tuners or power supplies. Not even a big shiny Darkglass compressor advert with dramatic and epic background music and copious amounts of backlight HD camera work gets me excited. When it comes to compressors, tuners and power supplies I just use what I have until it breaks. For example I had a Boss TU 2 for 18 years. It broke in February, upon which I immediately bought the Boss TU 3. 

Bass overdrives though? I average one every 18 months. 

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, thodrik said:

Bass overdrives though? I average one every 18 months. 

So what's your current "bit of dirt"?

Actually that's not completely off topic given that drive pedals will invariably add [something similar in outcome to but which is not in fact] compression 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Al Krow
See Jus Lukin's erudite email below!

[PaulWarning]

if you're using any sort of overdrive/ distortion then that compresses the signal as does valve amps, so like me you'll notice bugger all difference

[The GroovyPlucker]

if I go for one I may go with this cos of the small footprint.......Becos CompIQ

[thodrik]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So what's your current "bit of dirt"?

Actually that's not completely off topic given that drive pedals will invariably add compression 

My current 'bit of dirt' is the Darkglass B3K which is run almost at clean levels to mimic a Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver but without the inbuilt speaker emulation. I don't particularly 'love' the B3K but I started recording an album with a band in October and used the B3K on the first three tracks. I now feel obliged to record the rest of the album with the same pedal! After the album is done I will probably replace it as it was second hand when I bought it and the pots are and inputs are getting a bit scratchy and loose.

I bought an Alpha Omega on here a while back but 'hush hush' I don't really think that the pedal is worth the 'OMG!' hype it received on release. I got a good deal and it is a good pedal, but there is no way I would pay full retail price. I will keep it for a year to see if I find a way of fitting it in. 

Best dirt sound I have at the moment is the OD channel on the Mesa Big Block I bought recently. It isn't perfect (it could do with a separate three band control from the 'clean channel' EQ settings) however at the correct setting I far prefer the tone compared to either of the two Darkglass effects, mainly as it doesn't sound so much like an effect as a 'really loud amp being pushed into overdrive' (which it is!). 

My favourite ever bit of dirt pedal was an Aguilar Agro. Used that on every gig for about 6 years but ended up blowing a capacitor after a random power surge in a toilet venue somewhere on tour (either Aberdeen or Basingstoke). I got it repaired but it just isn't the same and the 'Engage' button is a bit sticky. Also, while it had a great tone, it lack a blend control or a basic EQ. I used to run the Aguilar with a Sansamp Bass Driver with the blend off and but adding in a bit off Bass on the Sansamp EQ. However the Sansamp I have is pretty much wrecked becaused it was used for even more gigs than the Agro!

Least favourite was probably the EBS Billy Sheehan original. It clean and overdrive settings were out of phase so the sound was always lacking bottom end. Considering it was marketed as 'the bass overdrive that didn't lose low end' I felt it was a bit of rip off. 

Boss ODB3 is still working after 20 years as well!

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 3, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Al Krow]

46 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

This has been my take on it for ages before I swore off compression topics. Glad someone is still flying the flag, Osiris!

I know I'll regret saying it, but to all those comments about overdrive and valve amps 'compressing' (not just in this thread, but everywhere for years), this is another misunderstanding which has been repeated until it sounds true. Valve amps and drive/distortion clip the signal, conpression turns it down. Before audible breakup, they sound similar. Draw a graph or look at a wave form and they look similar. They are, however, different actions, and compression has much more control over how the volume gain is reduced and when. It IS pedantic to point it out, and I've sworn off these kind of topics for exactly the same reason I may never mention this again, but the fact is that clipping and compression, while sharing some similarities, are almost, paradoxically, also diametrically opposed in what they actually are.

The same misinformation is trotted out so often that I think it is worth pointing out, not least so that proper use of compression gets a little more consideration by those who may be interested to dip into it.

Excellent thank you for that. I'll update my post to correct for this and disregard the nonsense on this point I've been fed from others for as long as I can remember  

[dannybuoy]

Also, a big thing when it comes to compression vs valves/overdrive is attack/release time.

A compressor has an adjustable delay before it clamps down on your signal. This means that your signal isn't just evened out, the initial peak can in fact be louder and more pronounced than it was before. With a multi band comp, you can apply this trick to the lows so that every note has a 'pop' to it, but have a faster attack time akin to a limiter to control the higher frequencies associated with aggressive playing.

Your valves won't do this, but a Spectracomp will!

Edited March 27, 2019 by dannybuoy

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

Also, a big thing when it comes to compression vs valves/overdrive is attack/release time.

A compressor has an adjustable delay before it clamps down on your signal. This means that your signal isn't just evened out, the initial peak can in fact be louder and more pronounced than it was before. With a multi band comp, you can apply this trick to the lows so that every note has a 'pop' to it, but have a faster attack time akin to a limiter to control the higher frequencies associated with aggressive playing.

Your valves won't do this, but a Spectracomp will!

I don't think anyone was ever saying that a valve amp or dirt pedal has all the finesse of a compressor, merely that valves and dirt bring an element of compression to the picture.

But apparently they don't compress at all they clip rather than compress, which merely is similar in effect to compression in terms of what we hear.

Compression can also be used to sustain a note and typically a dirt pedal does this as well. I have no idea how 'clipping' would do that though...

[dannybuoy]

Just pointing out the finer points that the 'I don't need compression' folk may not have considered. And clipping does indeed increase sustain, which is why your have a sustain knob on a Big Muff!

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 3, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[krispn]

@The GroovyPlucker The becos comp looks great (I haven’t used it but I’m familiar with the ‘dbx 160’ style comp which this appears to share a lineage with) and if you’re new to or returning to compression IMHO ‘LED monitoring’ is really useful to connect what ‘you’re seeing’ to what ‘you’re hearing’ and by default what the comp is doing in terms of attack and release.

The Spectracomp has been mentioned and it’s a good pedal but unless you’re editing via the TC app you may struggle to understand what’s happening due to the single controller knob on the pedal, no LED  monitoring and no indication of what parameters of the compressor are being controlled via the single knob. Deep diving into app opens up about 40+ tweak-able parameters which can get a bit over involved and over whelming. That being said the ‘Tone Prints’ do offer various options of compression with minimal fuss but if it’s not quite what you want you’re back to some deep editing via the app. You might find a set it and forget it setting which does enough of what you need but if you wanna understand a bit about what’s happening I’d suggest a pedal with LED monitoring and attack and release knobs. If you’re not bothered about the ins and out’s there’s already been some solid recommendations above.

As an aside...

The difficulty with understanding compression is that it can be both a tool and an effect depending on how it’s used and often, as others have said, this can cause problems especially if the controls are not fully understood. If you can afford a pedal which ticks all your boxes, the Becos certainly looks well featured and affordable, then it may be as good an option as anything else out there. 

As ever ovnilabs.com is the place to check out reviews and info.