Has Scott Devine become insane ?

[No. 8 Wire]

13 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

The target audience is small, and so what do you do to generate more income when most of your target audience has likely already signed up as a yearly or lifetime member?

I think you may have hit on the reason for the external courses.  Also, the lifetime sub isn't offered anymore, so maybe that just wasn't long term sustainable.

[fiatcoupe432]

34 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

The important point here is that you can pay up to be a lifetime member, but this course costs a significant amount on top of that subscription fee. I think this highlights the inevitable business model he has to follow. The target audience is small, and so what do you do to generate more income when most of your target audience has likely already signed up as a yearly or lifetime member?

I imagine the site would be good for someone with the time, dedication (and money) to learn everything there is to be had, but  (as Michael League says in one of the free videos), the real lessons to be had are in going out and playing with musicians that are much better than you, and learning how to develop groove and feel. That said, if I wanted to learn to play fretless bass better, Gary would be someone I’d seek lessons with, because his touch, tone and intonation are impeccable.

Totally agree , 

also bare in mind that the £70 that you have to pay to GW is only once a month , he won't see you more than that as he gives you enough material to keep you going forever that makes £30 cheaper then some other teachers trying to take £25 an hour and do a lesson once a week

[bazzbass]

15 hours ago, HazBeen said:

SBL, firmly on my “ignore” list. 

his manner is annoying, and you have to sit through 10 minutes of crap to get to the point of the excercise

[Sibob]

6 hours ago, Bassislife16 said:

Janek Gwizdala available for 1-1 Skype lessons etc.

I believe that Janek is about £100 an hour, there or thereabouts. He does maybe 10 of those a year (maybe) and charges the amount he thinks will bring in the players who see’s the worth, but it’s expensive enough to curb thousands of enquiries.....basic business acumen, same reason that Fodera can charge what they can. They’re just people who have to manage their work/life balance whilst being highly in demand.

Si

 

[Sibob]

2 minutes ago, bazzbass said:

his manner is annoying, and you have to sit through 10 minutes of crap to get to the point of the excercise

That’s my experience of the free stuff, not the paid stuff. Makes sense.

Si

[bazzbass]

Just now, Sibob said:

That’s my experience of the free stuff, not the paid stuff. Makes sense.

Si

maybe Si, but it puts off people that may have been interested if they knew that

 

But yes, I don't think he is sitting at home crying into his pillow that Bazz hasn't subbed hehe

[Burns-bass]

Saw the trailer, looks good - lots of tasty shots of Aguilar gear. I can’t see there will be much here beyond the visualisation stuff he outlines in his frankly brilliant Fingerboard harmony book.

The irony of this is that often these guys learn their chops relentlessly gigging, comping theory as they progress. Ultimately, my view is that learning is better whenjoy if playing an instrument with people than technical mastery. The stuff Gary Willis plays is interesting but it’s hardly accessible and to most, probably quite unenjoyable.

Good luck to Scott. His whole demeanour and attitude is a show for the camera I’m sure. It’s his job to relentlessly hype his product. As for Gary, I assume a one off payment would replace the royalties book he might write for instance, so it’s likely he’s charging more than £70 per hour...

 

[Jack]

He's not for me personally but you can't argue with the fact that he's making a really good living from playing bass (and marketing...). We're all bass players, many here would like to earn that amount of money, be that famous and play full time.

 

It's bad form to charge on top of yearly subscriptions but I'm sure plenty of people will happily pay it. I'm not one of them.

[JamieMillsBass]

I'm a member.

The way I see it is that when you weed through all the commercial marketing tactics designed to make more money, at the bottom of it all is a very good online resource for bass players.  It won't replace one to one teaching, but I can't really afford that right now, nor do I have the time - so it's a good fit for me and I'm sure many others.  

The company itself has changed a lot over the past few years.  In the beginning it almost felt like a small community.  Now it's basically a corporation doing exactly what corporations do -  everything to maximise revenue.  There's nothing wrong with that in my eyes - Everyone needs to make a few quid.  As I said, when you weed through all that there's still a very good online bass guitar resource at the bottom.

I'd say they've weighed up forecasted revenue if they offered the course for free verses revenue from charging paying members and the 2nd option won out.  It's all calculated business now.

 

[Wolverinebass]

It is cheeky charging more if you're already subscribed. I'm sure folk will pay it. If it was something I felt I wanted to know I'd pay for it. No problem. However, I don't, so I won't. Whilst I've never met Scott, the marketing crap does seem to have went overboard not to mention the totally clickbait videos.

Whether it is rampant greed or if Gary Willis wanted some decent cash and production costs meant he had to charge, I'm sure it'll get resolved one way or another.

[Sibob]

Just to be clear, people are complaining at paying around £12 per video lesson with Gary Willis, on top of the the same again (around £11) per month for full access to all the other content in the academy.
I'm not saying you shouldn't complain, affordability and worth is totally subjective to an individual, but I do think it's important to break down the costs as opposed to simply getting angry at larger numbers!

Si

[BlueMoon]

Lifetime member here.

I do get tired of the constant e-mails though, which often just repeat the same stuff up to a certain cut-off deadline. But I did see that he now gives you an option to decline further e-mails on a certain topic. Like  the SBL strap "offer",  for example. If I recall that was where you needed to pay import tax from the U.S. No thanks.

[No. 8 Wire]

I've got no problems with Scott making money, seems very strange to begrudge a musician (especially a talented one) making money from supplying a service that is in demand.

I'm a lifetime member and I don't object to the external courses but I think it's a shame as it will change the dynamic of SBL.  A great attraction to me was the all inclusive nature of what SBL offered and the lifetime membership.  Without these things I could see less people staying on in future.

In fact the only course I'm disappointed is going to be external is the upcoming Nolly Getgood course.  I would love to do that but can't justify it over and above my SBL subs.  Also, there is no metal content in SBL at all, so I think that really would have been a great addition.  Also a missed opportunity to get younger (non-jazz) players into SBL, as this could attract them in.

Edited March 27, 2019 by No. 8 Wire

[Aidan63]

Scott hasn't been on here since June 6th last year when he posted or reacted to the thread about SBL, and he didn't come back to tell the story of the stolen bass recovery either - I guess he decided not to waste any time or emotional energy on here getting/dealing with negative reactions and concentrate on doing what he needed to in the 5 days a week he spends on SBL whilst also spending time with his family and moving home etc...

Talking with Mark at Bass Direct recently he said he doesn't come on here or other bass forums - I guess he meant TB, either, probably for the same reasons

given the vitriol that sometimes seems to pour forth on here I can understand why; it's partly why I don't do facebook instagram, twatter or other types of social media they are home to too many toxic people.  When I first came on here (from Google search looking for information) it seemed pretty chilled and friendly but I'm not so sure now and it seems a lot of good and interesting people no longer post here

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Aidan63
spelling

[JamieMillsBass]

7 minutes ago, No. 8 Wire said:

I've got no problems with Scott making money, seems very strange to begrudge a musician (especially a talented one) making money from supplying a service that is in demand.

I'm a lifetime member and I don't object to the external courses but I think it's a shame as it will change the dynamic of SBL.  A great attraction to me was the all inclusive nature of what SBL offered and the lifetime membership.  Without these things I could see less people staying on in future.

In fact the only choose I'm disappointed is going to be external is the upcoming Nolly Getgood course.  I would love to do that but can't justify it over and above my SBL subs.  Also, there is no metal content in SBL at all, so I think that really would have been a great addition.  Also a missed opportunity to get younger (non-jazz) players into SBL, as this could attract them in.

I didn't realise the Nolly course was going to be external either.  That's disappointing for me too.  Totally agree with you about that lack of rock/metal too. 

[HazBeen]

10 minutes ago, Aidan63 said:

Scott hasn't been on here since June 6th last year when he posted or reacted to the thread about SBL, and he didn't come back to tell the story of the stolen bass recovery either - I guess he decided not to waste any time or emotional energy on here getting/dealing with negative reactions and concentrate on doing what he needed to in the 5 days a week he spends on SBL whilst also spending time with his family and moving home etc...

Talking with Mark at Bass Direct recently he said he doesn't come on here or other bass forums - I guess he meant TB, either, probably for the same reasons

given the vitriol that sometimes seems to pour forth on here I can understand why; it's partly why I don't do facebook instagram, twatter or other types of social media they are home to too many toxic people.  When I first came on here (from Google search looking for information) it seemed pretty chilled and friendly but I'm not so sure now and it seems a lot of good and interesting people no longer post here

 

Everyone is free to come or go on BC, which is still and always will be one of the more open and friendly forums out there where within reason people are free to give opinion and disagree with things they see happening around them. 

[No. 8 Wire]

3 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

friendly

Not sure I'd describe your opening post in this thread as friendly...

[fretmeister]

His style annoys me a bit but a quick look at Companies House suggests he's got a good product that people like.

So good luck to him. Running a business is always about where the next cheque comes from because it feeds the family. Nothing wrong with that.

[stewblack]

I think it's reasonable to be a bit cross if you feel you have paid for something then get asked to pay again for it. 

[wateroftyne]

33 minutes ago, Aidan63 said:

Scott hasn't been on here since June 6th last year when he posted or reacted to the thread about SBL, and he didn't come back to tell the story of the stolen bass recovery either - I guess he decided not to waste any time or emotional energy on here getting/dealing with negative reactions and concentrate on doing what he needed to in the 5 days a week he spends on SBL whilst also spending time with his family and moving home etc...

Talking with Mark at Bass Direct recently he said he doesn't come on here or other bass forums - I guess he meant TB, either, probably for the same reasons

given the vitriol that sometimes seems to pour forth on here I can understand why; it's partly why I don't do facebook instagram, twatter or other types of social media they are home to too many toxic people.  When I first came on here (from Google search looking for information) it seemed pretty chilled and friendly but I'm not so sure now and it seems a lot of good and interesting people no longer post here

 

I think if you make a shed-load of cash by putting yourself out there (not in any way a criticism, btw), you have to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth. You can either engage with it, or completely ignore it. Both valid approaches, IMO.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, Sibob said:

Just to be clear, people are complaining at paying around £12 per video lesson with Gary Willis, on top of the the same again (around £11) per month for full access to all the other content in the academy.
I'm not saying you shouldn't complain, affordability and worth is totally subjective to an individual, but I do think it's important to break down the costs as opposed to simply getting angry at larger numbers!

Si

 

I hear you, and I agree that in the grand scheme of things it’s not expensive. It is however not £12 for a personalised, one-on-one lesson, but for (correct me if I am wrong) a pre-recorded “masterclass”. Nothing wrong with that, but with someone who is quite “niche” like Gary, maybe the £70 or so he charges for a private lesson may be money better spent? And as it would be with him, maybe that would focus the mind to actually get something worthwhile out of it. There are plenty of GW videos about teaching and playing on YT already, and as others have said, his original 90’s video plus the Fingerboard Harmony for Bass book (and his website!) cover much of his approach.

[HazBeen]

2 hours ago, No. 8 Wire said:

Not sure I'd describe your opening post in this thread as friendly...

But not unfriendly either. simply a statement of fact, without providing any reason or opinion as to why.

[Hellzero]

Looks like my complaint about the silly price of the Gary Willis masterclass worked a little bit :

And, because you’re a member of SBL, we’re giving you an extra $20 off when you use the coupon code GW20.

That said I followed some face to face(s) masterclasses of 4 hours or more for 25 to 50 €. And this was intensive teaching without any bullsh*t talk. I even attended a masterclass with Alain Caron for free as I was invited : I've never learnt so much in 4 hours with plenty to study for the next year(s).

The Steve Lawson course on fretless included in SBL is a 2 hours one and also very interesting.

So please tell me why are Steve Lawson's courses, lessons and seminars (way over 10 hours) included and why should I have to pay for a masterclass ?

That said, Scott is claiming to have over 25.000 subscribers which makes a minimum income of $2.500.000 USD for the subscriptions only...

He has, for sure, totally understood the American evangelists system or how to make easy money very fast. 

[Machines]

5 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

 

That said, Scott is claiming to have over 25.000 subscribers which makes a minimum income of $2.500.000 USD for the subscriptions only...

He has, for sure, totally understood the American evangelists system or how to make easy money very fast. 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08528890/filing-history

[No. 8 Wire]

10 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

But not unfriendly either. simply a statement of fact, without providing any reason or opinion as to why.

There's a lot more than just fact in there, and it's distinctly unfriendly. It doesn't bother me, but seems at odds with your liking of basschat because it is open and friendly.