Kramer DMZ 4001 bass

[dmccombe7]

Anyone ever had one or still does. Just curious to know what they are like. A few of my bass heroes back in 80's incl Neil Murray and Trevor Bolder used them for a bit. I remember liking the tone but how does the neck feel and what does it compare to ?

Quite fancy one but they are very rare.

Dave

[Shaggy]

Plenty of info online, eg:. http://www.vintagekramer.com/alum.htm

I have a 650B and a fretless 450B, essentially the DMZ series were very similar (alu necks on heavy walnut or maple bodies) but with the well known Di Marzio pickups rather than the chrome covered single coil Mighty Mite p/ups on the earlier models.

I love mine; distinctive looks and distinctive tone (quite "toppy" -think bass intro to Boomtown Rats "Rat trap" which was a 650B), and quality build - they were boutique range basses in their day.   Neck is roughly P profile, medium scale, and ultra stable as long as you don't use very heavy / high tension strings (in which case they've been known to bend!).  Necks not as cold on the hand as a Travis Bean - which is about the only other bass you can compare then to -(which I've also got) due to the wood inserts

Good luck, - there were a few alu-necked DMZ models recently on eBay, though not sure if there was a 4001

[dmccombe7]

Thanks for that. I've already seen the Vintage Kramer link you posted. 

I know the sound you are talking about on the Boomtown Rats and i remember him playing the Kramer.

I prefer the DM pick up sound on them. At the time i saw Trevor Bolder using one it was with Uriah Heep on the Conquest album tour and i still really enjoy that sharp clear precision like tone but it had something that made it a bit sharper than a normal P bass.

I've seen a few 450B  versions for sale but very rarely a DMZ4001. Its god to know hear your thoughts on the neck as that would be my bigger worry because of the aluminium neck. So many famous bass players had one around the 80's that i always figured they must have been pretty good basses or they simply wouldn't have sold.

Think i'm gonna keep my eyes open and if one pops up i might go for it instead of the P basses i've been looking at recently.

Dave

[Cato]

Probably not much help but I remember trying out a Trace Elliot combo with an aluminium necked split headstock Kramer during the early 90s. I couldn't tell you the actual model though.

I remember I was impressed with the bass, it certainly wasn't uncomfortable to play in any way. I seem to recall that it was probably  the heaviest bass I'd ever used up to that point and I was a bit surprised by the weight, but it wasn't back breaking, at least not to 18 year old me. I reckon I've played much heavier basses since.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Cato

[dmccombe7]

From what i've read the range of basses after the DMZ range had neck dive issues and many owners put lead weights inside the control cover stuck to the back of it. A bit like the ones you get to balance alloy wheels. Maybe that's why it felt so heavy.

The DMZ 4000 and 4001 range or earlier basses don't appear to have suffered from that problem.

Did you buy the TE combo ???

Dave 

[Cato]

5 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

From what i've read the range of basses after the DMZ range had neck dive issues and many owners put lead weights inside the control cover stuck to the back of it. A bit like the ones you get to balance alloy wheels. Maybe that's why it felt so heavy.

The DMZ 4000 and 4001 range or earlier basses don't appear to have suffered from that problem.

Did you buy the TE combo ???

Dave 

In the end I went with a 350 watt Hartke Head and a 4x10 Carlsboro cab.

Which may actually have weighed slightly less than the Trace Combo.

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Cato

[Shaggy]

7 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Thanks for that. I've already seen the Vintage Kramer link you posted. 

I know the sound you are talking about on the Boomtown Rats and i remember him playing the Kramer.

I prefer the DM pick up sound on them. At the time i saw Trevor Bolder using one it was with Uriah Heep on the Conquest album tour and i still really enjoy that sharp clear precision like tone but it had something that made it a bit sharper than a normal P bass.

I've seen a few 450B  versions for sale but very rarely a DMZ4001. Its god to know hear your thoughts on the neck as that would be my bigger worry because of the aluminium neck. So many famous bass players had one around the 80's that i always figured they must have been pretty good basses or they simply wouldn't have sold.

Think i'm gonna keep my eyes open and if one pops up i might go for it instead of the P basses i've been looking at recently.

Dave

I'd imagine the DMZ 4001 would be quite a bit more cutting with rather less bottom end than a standard P - alu Kramers have a really ringing sustain too.   Meant to say that they're ideally best played through a valve amp (to my ears) as can othwise sound a tad piano-like - I play mine through a Mesa Walkabout or Titan V12 and they sound massive and growly.....

The necks are a joy to play as well as being an iconic exercise in styling  - the ebanol boards on my two are barely marked after 40+ years.

[dmccombe7]

45 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

I'd imagine the DMZ 4001 would be quite a bit more cutting with rather less bottom end than a standard P - alu Kramers have a really ringing sustain too.   Meant to say that they're ideally best played through a valve amp (to my ears) as can othwise sound a tad piano-like - I play mine through a Mesa Walkabout or Titan V12 and they sound massive and growly.....

The necks are a joy to play as well as being an iconic exercise in styling  - the ebanol boards on my two are barely marked after 40+ years.

I use the Mesa Mpulse 600 into Mesa PH212 cab so i'm thinking its quite valve sounding but that's a handy thing to keep in mind. Any time i've heard and liked the tone was either thru Ampeg SVT or Hiwatt altho i can't remember what Trevor Bolder was using back then but i would guess it was a valve amp.

Dave

[3below]

3 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Anyone ever had one or still does. Just curious to know what they are like. A few of my bass heroes back in 80's incl Neil Murray and Trevor Bolder used them for a bit. I remember liking the tone but how does the neck feel and what does it compare to ?

Quite fancy one but they are very rare.

Dave

I have a DMZ401, bought from this forum at a price that I am still amazed at  , thank you to one BCer.  Great bass, really well built.  Never had any tuning stability issues even in a rapidly temperature changing venue. Plus points, the DiMarzio pickup, the way the bass almost 'plays itself'.  The strings respond back with great elasticity / boing.  Hard to describe but a pleasure to play, the string response is unlike any other bass I have in a good way. Clarity of notes is superb, no deadspots, even response over most of the neck.  It is, as Shaggy states, 'toppy' even with  TI flats.  Downsides, it is heavy and needs a good strap to prevent neck dive.  You will need to do a small (non visible, diy) mod to prevent string silks going over the bridge.  It is one of my keepers, in the late 70s / early 80s it was the bass I wanted but bought a USA Fender P as the cheaper alternative lol.

Edited March 26, 2019 by 3below

[dmccombe7]

What was the diy mod you mentioned ? not heard of that issue

Your response is also very positive and makes me want one even more now. 

[Shaggy]

Kind of surprised at the reports of neck dive, as I haven't noticed any?

The original bridge is similar to the Fender BBOT and a Badass fits with no hole modifications and just looks so "right" - I've done on both of mine (keeping originals of course!). May have counterbalanced in a small way, as a Badass 1 is a heavy chunk of brass!

[dmccombe7]

Think it was the XK series that had more of an issue with neck dive. Not heard anything on the DMZ 4001 series tho.

Was just listening to Trevor Bolder live using his various Kramer basses around the Conquest album release. He had the DMZ 4000 and also another similar style but with 2 white humbucker style pick ups fitted. No idea what model that was unless a custom version he's asked for. Prefer the 4000 sound he had

Dave

[dmccombe7]

Post some pics of your Kramer basses. That would be nice to see them all.

Dave

[3below]

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

What was the diy mod you mentioned ? not heard of that issue

Your response is also very positive and makes me want one even more now. 

Remove bridge, make the string holes deeper (avoid drilling through body), refit bridge. When stringing up, place spacer nuts / old ball ends on the strings. This moves the ball end back into the body, silks etc now behind bridge saddles,  Depends on what bridge the DMZ has, mine is BBOT fender style, others have Schaller (branded Kramer), have also seen Badass types fitted.

57 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

Kind of surprised at the reports of neck dive, as I haven't noticed any?

The original bridge is similar to the Fender BBOT and a Badass fits with no hole modifications and just looks so "right" - I've done on both of mine (keeping originals of course!). May have counterbalanced in a small way, as a Badass 1 is a heavy chunk of brass!

Mine does a bit despite the body weight. Largely but not totally cured by a wide grippy strap and forearm resting on upper bout cutout.  Having stopped my SG bass neck diving by putting Hipshot lightweight tuners on it I am going  to try some of the Schaller lightweight M4s.  I might try a quick change of bridge to a Badass (borrowed from a bass I have from you) and see if that helps.  I have also considered getting a replica body made with a longer upper horn.

Bonus feature of the DMZ4001 is the standard P size pickup.  Plenty of readily fitting alternatives available if the DiMarzio is not to your taste. 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by 3below

[Shaggy]

Very few basses I any GAS for now, but I've been hoping to stumble across an affordable Stagemaster Imperial for a while.......

[dmccombe7]

25 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

Very few basses I any GAS for now, but I've been hoping to stumble across an affordable Stagemaster Imperial for a while.......

When i did a google search yesterday i came across a black Stagemaster for sale somewhere but can't remember where. Black one didn't have the same class look as the one in your pic tho. Found it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202385384336

Dave

[3below]

Yet another on ebay  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1981-Kramer-Stagemaster-Bass-Aluminum-Neck-Rare-Vintage-Dimarzios/264251852748?hash=item3d86a347cc:g:cvgAAOSwHOlcYfRN  Not an Imperial and not as nice looking as the one you pictured.  USA location so much price creep with import duty & VAT.

[Shaggy]

13 hours ago, 3below said:

 I might try a quick change of bridge to a Badass (borrowed from a bass I have from you) and see if that helps.  

 

 

Just noticed that - was that the '75 AVRI Jazz?  Hope you're still liking that - I'm loving having the Steve Smith Custom back in my stable, still with the very nice TI flats you fitted......

33 minutes ago, 3below said:

Yet another on ebay  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1981-Kramer-Stagemaster-Bass-Aluminum-Neck-Rare-Vintage-Dimarzios/264251852748?hash=item3d86a347cc:g:cvgAAOSwHOlcYfRN  Not an Imperial and not as nice looking as the one you pictured.  USA location so much price creep with import duty & VAT.

They do crop up, and there was a very nice Stagemaster Standard recently FS on BC (in Wales too!) but it would have to be an Imperial.    I think the later ones have a double Jazz pickup at the bridge.

 

[Tom Kay]

On 26/03/2019 at 21:42, dmccombe7 said:

Think it was the XK series that had more of an issue with neck dive. Not heard anything on the DMZ 4001 series tho.

Was just listening to Trevor Bolder live using his various Kramer basses around the Conquest album release. He had the DMZ 4000 and also another similar style but with 2 white humbucker style pick ups fitted. No idea what model that was unless a custom version he's asked for. Prefer the 4000 sound he had

Dave

Hi Dave

I came across your post on here and thought I'd share this with you.

My family were friends of Trevor's and we own the Kramer DMZ 4000 as used on Uriah Heep's Firefly tour and the Conquest album and tour. Trevor had a Seymour Duncan Jazz pickup installed (after the Firefly tour I believe) along with an extra volume pot and mini switch. He also had it made fretless at some point. It's a great bass. Very comfortable to play and sounds fantastic. This one was the main Kramer Trev used when he was endorsing the company and has seen a couple of world tours. He actually had 11 of them at one point but said that this one was the best of the bunch. It still has his Gretsch strap on it which is locked on by what appear to be rubber amp feet. I recently had it in the studio when I was recording my bands last release. The first time it had been in a studio in nearly 40 years! 

[dmccombe7]

Thanks for sharing that with me. I was always a huge fan of Trevor from Bowie to Uriah Heep. Always thought his tone with the Kramers was excellent. Then again his Fender tone was excllent too but the Kramers had a bit more edge to them and they looked good.

When i saw him on the Conquest tour in Glasgow he had the one pick up version as it was first time i had ever seen one in the flesh. I still have the programme from that tour and i think there's a pic of Trevor playing the bass 

That's a fantastic piece of history you have there. Nice one.

thanks

Dave

Edited October 2, 2019 by dmccombe7

[4000]

I saw them on the Conquest tour. Would have been just before I started playing. Still have the programme. Big Heep fan here, although that was far from their best period. I was most impressed with Chris Slade’s Staccato drums though!

Played quite a few of the Alu-necked Kramers back in the day, including a Flying V. Loved the necks on them. Don’t remember them being remotely as heavy as the one Travis Bean I’ve played, but I could be wrong.

Edited October 2, 2019 by 4000

[dmccombe7]

I was a big fan of John Sloman from Lone Star days so having him and Trevor Bolder in one band it had to be god for me. Oddly enough Chris Slade's drums is the other thing that stood out for me that night. That i met the band before the gig of course. All really nice guys too John Sloman being exceptionally nice and easy to get along with. Trevor was actually quite shy and Mick was a gem too and happy to have a chat with fans.

Dave