What preamp? Needs more punch.

[cLepto-bass]

So I own an older JM model Sandberg 5 string which I love. However, in recent months I have become slightly uninspired by the rather softer tones I am getting from the subtle Glockenklang preamp. In a nutshell I am after something more immediate, aggressive and attacking which will suit a new musical project I am on the cards (think typical Warwick punch/edge). Everybody seems to wax lyrical about the East preamps so they is definitely on my radar but I am curious to  know of anyone's opinions regarding other preamps that might be able to give me that aggressive tone I am looking for. I am particularly interested to hear from those who might have already partnered their Delano pickups with aftermarket preamps.

As always, all insight is greatly appreciated.

[Dan Dare]

Rather than modify the instrument, why not consider a pedal/external pre? You'll have to do some research/trying out - only you know the sound you're after. That way, you can use the Sandberg as it is when you don't want the more aggressive approach.

[dyerseve]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

Rather than modify the instrument, why not consider a pedal/external pre? You'll have to do some research/trying out - only you know the sound you're after. That way, you can use the Sandberg as it is when you don't want the more aggressive approach.

this or put some new and/or different strings on it

[dannybuoy]

Definitely worth considering the pedal route. With swapping the preamp you are generally just swapping one clean EQ circuit for another one with slightly different characteristics. But a pedal like the TC Spectradrive will bring multiband compression to the table, that by itself adds a lot of punch and sparkle, a 3 band EQ and overdrive. You might not have considered overdrive, but you do mention aggression, and very mild drive settings can bring out some nice harmonics without sounding obviously distorted. 

[Al Krow]

Sounds like you've pretty much ended up where I did, with your tone-quest.

My solution was to trade in my Berg with its Delanos (it was actually a rather lovely TM4) and get an Ibby SR Premium with big Nord single pups and on-board 3 band EQ to deliver that typical Warwick punch / edge - and as a former Warwick German $$ 5er owner I know exactly what you're referring to!  

I suspect it's the pups rather than the EQ that you need to swap out if you want that Warwick growl. I'll need to defer to other Berg owners if they can recommend pups that can be swapped in, ideally without needing to gouge out your bass, and which can deliver the tone you're after. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Al Krow

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

suspect it's the pups rather than the EQ that you need to swap out if you want that Warwick growl.

might be the preamp - the eq points are quite different to a lot of others and it seems to have a compressed character to it. 

[Guest Marcoelwray]

Good to know, Delano offers a buffer without equalizer, just to boost your signal with 18V.

I don't really like John East preamps because of the colorful and compressed sound getting out of these, but it's just my opinion.

I'm not sure but in the Sandberg equipped with Delano's, isn't that the Alnico ones? Because that might be the most expensive way but a new and fresh set of pickups could provides you a better tone, better punch, better growl, after all, the preamp can't make a sound that doe'snt exists in the first place... And, again, it's IMHO, but after reading you three times, I think you are spoiled of the pickups.

There is the option to put a MEC preamp in it, but I doubt you'll be able to get that punch you need.

Just exploring the possibilities here, if you need some advices on Delano's pickups, don't hesitate to contact me  

[LukeFRC]

If it’s a Warwick punch you’re trying to get the preamp points are:

MEC 2-band
Bass: 100 hz
Treble 2.5K hz

MEC 3-band
Bass: 100 hz
Mid: 800 hz
Treble: 8.5K hz

i think someone meantioned you had a helix - see if you can eq in the punch - I’ve done this recorded my Warwick bass straight to jack and then used GarageBand to try and recreate some of how the preamp is working. Playing with a boost at that 100hz point and the 2.5k for me, got me into the right kinda territory for a typical Warwick sound 

[Guest Marcoelwray]

BTW, I have a Shack programmable (dipswitches) preamp with Q factor for frequencies. It's quite big but it's the best solution to find the frequencies you need.

I can sold it for you for not much, before spending money in something you will not be sure about.

[Cuzzie]

Is it a standard jazz plate on the TM bass?

if so there are more options than J East - which I did not like.

New pups and change of strings will defo bring extra to the table, Sandberg black labels are the nuts

[itu]

On 03/04/2019 at 18:41, Marcoelwray said:

I don't really like John East preamps because of the colorful and compressed sound getting out of these, but it's just my opinion.

I think that every time I use singlecoil (J) pickups in lo-Z ("active") environment, the sound is compressed compared to humbuckers. It may be so that the preamp enhances the experience.

[Guest Marcoelwray]

4 minutes ago, itu said:

I think that every time I use singlecoil (J) pickups in lo-Z ("active") environment, the sound is compressed compared to humbuckers. It may be so that the preamp enhances the experience.

That is weird. Soon I'll try the Delano Sonar Xpure... Just a buffer without EQ. Give boost without touching the sound. Works on 9V but uses two 18V batteries, it will last until your two batteries are 4.5V... I do not know the exact mechanism but it's quite clever.

As I previously said and @Cuzzie too, changing the pickups is quite radical but certainly the most effective solution.

[Cuzzie]

That’s cool - the wiring is tight but well done in there on the Delano preamp, but I would argue no less radical than changing the pre-amp!

[Guest Marcoelwray]

9 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

That’s cool - the wiring is tight but well done in there on the Delano preamp, but I would argue no less radical than changing the pre-amp!

agreed! And as for the "Warwick kind of sound" I absolutely recommand Delano JMVC FE/M2, punch, power, even in passive mode, still Jazz sound, growly...  But there is the problem; isn't that already these on neck ? That bass should growl as hell... I don't know what is the MM style pickup on the bridge tho... AlNiCo? Fe? Dual or Quad?

Hence my best idea so far (for the pickups, because I can't believe that a Glock preamp couldn't be effective) ; put Nordstrand J Blades on that ! you will destroy the walls.

[cLepto-bass]

Many thanks to all those who have provided some excellent insight. I just thought I would provide a update and address one of the interesting points which a few of you raised.

For clarity, I thought a bit more context might be useful. So basically, I love the sound of the MM style bridge pickup (both in dual and single coil arrangement) - it is everything I would ask for for a pickup in that position. What I have come to realise is that I am mostly disappointing with the J style neck pickup. As the blend knob is turned towards the neck pickup all the gutsy, potent aggressive sound of the MM pickup is lost and replaced by a less defined, almost flabby and less precise tone - this is the sound that I am currently unhappy with and wish to have amended. 

A few of you mentioned about replacing the pickups and I am beginning to suspect that this might be a more suitable approach. In light of that, does anyone have any recommendations on suitable J style pickups that might provide more of that aggressive and grunty sound (must be available in 5 string). 

 

[Cuzzie]

Sandberg black label

[mybass]

These look interesting. Bass direct have a host of stuff in their pre-amp page.....http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Tone_styler_BAss.html

 

[cLepto-bass]

4 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Sandberg black label

I am having trouble finding anything out about these. Any idea where they can be purchased?

[Guest Marcoelwray]

Nordstrand J blades.

[dannybuoy]

Or route it out for a matching MM pickup!

[Cuzzie]

https://www.rockinger.com/index.php/en/Sandberg-T4-Alnico-Pickups/c-WG106/a-SG01N-SG01B

 

they may have 5s or be able to get them or try Sandberg direct

[moley6knipe]

Another vote for Nordstrand. One of the J blades should fit - not tried one in person but own an Ibby with Nord Big Singles, very agressive sound if you want it!

Edited April 9, 2019 by moley6knipe

[Guest Marcoelwray]

The only thing with J blades is, IIRC, they don't make a closed cover. So you will have 2 different poles... Just an aesthetic matter.

 

[chris_b]

I'd suggest an East Unipre with Bart split coil pickups.

Or an out board preamp, such as the EBS MicroBass II Preamp Pedal.

[cLepto-bass]

On 09/04/2019 at 11:44, Marcoelwray said:

Nordstrand J blades.

So it turns out that the J blades are slightly larger than the pickup cavity already routed into the body. Its not the end of the world but a bit beyond what I can be bothered to attempt or pay to get done right now. Gutted.

 

On 09/04/2019 at 18:57, Marcoelwray said:

The only thing with J blades is, IIRC, they don't make a closed cover. So you will have 2 different poles... Just an aesthetic matter.

 

That is not a concern for me. All my basses are work horses, not design pieces. But thanks for the insight.