Scooping Mids on a gig pros & cons

[jazzyvee]

Virtually every gig I go to these days the bass player has a tone that sounds like it has scooped mids.
I'd just like to know what you guys think the reason is for this?
What are the pros and cons of scooping mids  in a gig situation?

Is it just a current fashion amongst players or bass makers to use that tone or heaven forbid or maybe just that I have a lost the mids in my hearing? 🙂

 

Cheers 

[EliasMooseblaster]

I would guess there are two forces at play:

1. yes, it probably is quite fashionable at the moment. I've seen a lot of "smiley face" EQs at gigs when I've been close enough to see the amp.

2. sound engineers in a hurry, dealing with a multiple-band bill, may find it easier to cut the midrange from the bass to mix the sound during a 30-second line-check, especially if they have to keep two guitarists and a singer happy with the foldback.

Edited to add: I'm very much pro-mids myself - partly because I feel that's where a lot of the "character" of the bass comes through, but also from years of playing in single-guitar bands, where I have a lot more sonic space to fill.

Edited April 1, 2019 by EliasMooseblaster

[thodrik]

Oh no, someone is scooping the mids! Someone call the bass guitar forum police! One should always run the EQ on an amp 'flat' and should only play through a FRFR cab and only adjust the EQ the suit the particular ambience of the room. 

Seriously though, I would agree with the post above. I would also add that a lot of amps have an inbuilt 'character/pre shape' settings which when engaged result in a mid cut. On a three band gig with one shared bass amp (probably belonging to the headlining act) the other bass players may not want to mess with the settings. Bass EQ and overdrive pedals such as the Sansamp Bass Driver also have an inherent mid cut. Two pick up basses like a jazz bass also have a gentle mid cut when both pick ups are engaged. Active basses also often have Bass and Treble settings but no mid setting. 

So a rig could feature a bassist:

1. playing an active Jazz bass with bass and treble boosted; running into;
2. a Sansamp Bass Driver with bass and treble boosted; running into
3. A Trace Elliot amp with the pre shape engaged and a smiley face EQ; through
4. An old 4x10 that has an inherently scooped built in sound; and
4. A sound engineer who is cutting mids 'to give a bigger sound'. 

All of the gear I have detailed above can be used to generate a great sound with tonnes of mids. However once you start stacking EQs on top of each other it is easy to lose any interpretation as to what a 'flat sound' actually is. In a gigging situation when the bassist isn't using their own gear, the soundman doesn't know the band and the inherent time constraints of set ups, I'm not surprised that there is a lot of scooping going on. 
 

[Lozz196]

I do the mid-scooping but I have a very specific sound, a lot of high end, and a good bit of gain when digging in (which is all the time), think Duff/Lemmy/JJ etc. As we are a 3 piece I need to fill out the sound when the guitar is soloing, but also as the guitar is an overdriven/distorted Les Paul, similarly keep out of the way of durging when chords are played.

It’s not my automatic choice for a bass sound, it’s the one that fitted best with the guitar and style of music, as we tried a good few other sounds as well. I’m not one of those players with a sound they take with them, I try to get the best for whatever band I’m in at the time. And given the number of comments I get I think we’ve managed it, which I have to admit is very gratifying. Certainly the only band where anyone’s ever mentioned my bass sound up til now.

 

[spencer.b]

People do it cos it's easy to get a smooth tone and bluff notes a bit but it's cowardly , be strong brothers ,leave those mids in and play with conviction and finesse!

[dannybuoy]

Certain instruments and mixes suit scooped mids.

If I'm playing with my P with flats to some blues, RnB or classic rock, I like a lot of fat low mids, not too much deep lows, and barely any highs. Especially important to steer clear of the upper midrange if there are high pitched vocals or horns to contend with.

With my last band that featured some heavy downtuned guitars, experimenting with headphone mixes showed that a scooped pickup setting (both pickups up full) and scooped / distorted preamp (Darkglass B7K or Sansamp) made the bass leave a nice hole for the guitars to sit in rather than battle them for the same frequencies. Yet it wasn't lost in the mix as the low end was very present and the distorted top end cut through above the guitars.

[Stub Mandrel]

<DUCKS>

Actually the reality is closer to this:

 

[Cato]

I like the naturally scooped tone of a Jazz or PJ with both pickups on full.  I might even boost the bas and treble a bit on an active onboard preamp to accentuate that tone, but I pretty much always run the amps with as neutral an EQ or tone shaping section as possible.

As others have said we almost have too many tone shaping options in the chain these days. If I find a tone I like on the bass I'm not going to improve on it by fiddling with the amp as well.

[Cato]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

<DUCKS>

Actually the reality is closer to this:

 

Has th e EQ on the amp in that top picture been set like that for tone purposes or just to make the whole stack look like a smiling happy robot?

Edited April 1, 2019 by Cato

[Stylon Pilson]

8 minutes ago, Cato said:

Has th e EQ on the amp in that top picture been set like that for tone purpose or just to make the whole stack look like a smiling happy robot?

A smiling happy robot with a fine pair of jugs, no less.

S.P.

[Stub Mandrel]

2 minutes ago, Stylon Pilson said:

A smiling happy robot with a fine pair of jugs, no less.

S.P.

Indeedy do-dah!

[leschirons]

These bassists playing with mid cut smiley face EQ, just out of curiosity, did they all have short fair hair,  red braces and a Status/Alembic /Jaydee bass?

[Happy Jack]

Come on over baby, whole lot of stacking going on ...

[PaulWarning]

I suspect it's because it sounds good to have mids cut whilst playing alone, but it just gets lost in the mix when playing in a band

[Lozz196]

I must admit, my earlier post is a tad misleading, I don`t cut any mids I just boost the lows/hi-mids/highs which on a graphic would still look like a smiley face.

[Maude]

I like a lot of mids in our Mod band, a lot of bass guitar led songs and I like to be heard. More honk than an angry goose who's just found out what Christmas is all about. 

[stewblack]

Trace Elliot.

[PaulWarning]

46 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Trace Elliot.

yes, but without the pre shapes

[stewblack]

15 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

yes, but without the pre shapes

HERESY 

[wateroftyne]

I would scoop my EQ into a nice smiley face, but it would be much easier just to not turn up to the gig.

[stewblack]

It is in truth an indulgence of ours to worry about such niceties. As long as folk feel the bass they appear quite content to focus on the singer - until the guitarist begins screeching and howling then he or she receives their 30 seconds of adulation. I set my sound how I like it because almost nobody else gives a hoot. And yes that means the gorgeous warm richness of a mid scoop. For one cab. The other, driven by its own amp, delivers as much or little of the mid range frequencies as I see fit to give myself. But really, how often do I get chance to listen to the bass in the mix? Hardly ever, I'm too busy setting up the PA for everyone else.

I've played through broken equipment and received the same compliments and indifference as when using brand new shiny gear. People do seem to notice flashy lights, extreme audio effects, and size, not much else.

[Skol303]

As always, EQ settings are all about choosing what's right for the context - i.e. the music genre, the venue, the musician, etc. "Scooped mids" are not inherently right or wrong / in fashion or out of fashion. There are situations when such settings would work nicely, and others when they wouldn't. Sorry that's not a definitive answer, but that's the nature of the beast 🙂

But generally speaking...

• If you want the bass to underpin the mix and help "glue" the band together then scooped mids might help with that (at the expense of clarity);
• If you want the bass to punch through the mix and be clearly audible then I'd suggest rolling off some of the low end and instead giving the mids a little boost between 500Hz - 1kHz (mindful that's just a rule of thumb and YMMV).

[PaulWarning]

18 minutes ago, Skol303 said:

As always, EQ settings are all about choosing what's right for the context - i.e. the music genre, the venue, the musician, etc. "Scooped mids" are not inherently right or wrong / in fashion or out of fashion. There are situations when such settings would work nicely, and others when they wouldn't. Sorry that's not a definitive answer, but that's the nature of the beast 🙂

But generally speaking...

• If you want the bass to underpin the mix and help "glue" the band together then scooped mids might help with that (at the expense of clarity);
• If you want the bass to punch through the mix and be clearly audible then I'd suggest rolling off some of the low end and instead giving the mids a little boost between 500Hz - 1kHz (mindful that's just a rule of thumb and YMMV).

this^

I play in a 3 piece + singer and I need to sort of replace the rhythm guitar as well as add bass, I have my TE GP12 30 and 40 Hz sliders all the way down and adjust the 50Hz depending on the room (never above flat though), so I can fill the sound out especially on guitar solo's

[tauzero]

17 hours ago, Stylon Pilson said:

A smiling happy robot with a fine pair of jugs, no less.

If a little lopsided. I trust the preshape was also switched in.

[peteb]

I usually play with a single guitar player and tend to boost the low mids a little and cut hi mids. Sounds nice and full and there is no problem cutting through a pretty sparse mix. 

I did the same last Saturday when I was playing in a band with loads of big keyboard sounds and I wasn't cutting through, so I took a little low mids and bass out and it worked fine. It all depends on the room and (especially) the makeup of the band you are playing with.