Scooping Mids on a gig pros & cons

[lou24d53]

18 hours ago, Stylon Pilson said:

A smiling happy robot with a fine pair of jugs, no less.

S.P.

I'm offended..........

 

 

Oh, sorry...wrong thread....

[Japhet]

I go for the grumpy face EQ at live gigs and find that it matches my own grumpy face rather well.

[wateroftyne]

I just leave everything flat (maybe with a slight tweak if but usually not), and IMO it sounds fab.

I think I have a bass / amp / cab holy trinity.

[Jazzmaster62]

I tend to set the EQ for the room when playing live - different rooms, different sounds. 

[EliasMooseblaster]

Probably worth also noting that not all scoops are equal: there's the "gentle scoop," such as @Lozz196 describes when going for that gnarly, JJ Burnel-esque sound, and then there's the "nu-metal style" scoop, where there just seems to be a massive chasm in the middle of the frequency range, until you're left with a rumbly, indistinct, wet-fart-distortion sound right at the bottom end, and a horribly thin, trebly, clackity-clack which sounds like two mice fencing with lolly sticks.

[BassAdder60]

Resurrecting this old thread as I’ve been on this road of discovery for the last two years 

One thing I didn’t read or see mentioned was playing with a PICK !

 

Ive discovered that a PBass played with a pick is very different in EQ content compared to finger style, in my case very different 

 

The PICK played PBass as an example would sound massively mid heavy if you didn’t pull back something such as high Mids or treble etc 

The sense of reduced bass fullness with a pick also needs some EQ tweaks and also a compressor can help with initial note attack etc.

 

I still see the Pick as the best method to squeeze out the tone of the amp ( especially a valve amp ) and bass and it provides clarity that finger style smothers. The challenge is filling the band with the right bass EQ to sit with the drums and guitars 

So I think “ you need the mids” depends on many factors and in reality is too many Mids is harsh and too few is lost in the mix.

The effect mids have on perceived bass is immense, turn mids down and it sounds more bassy, turn them up and it’s less bassy !! 
I think typical amps have limited EQ points that suit everything hence why I use a floor preamp with sweepable mids etc for a bit more tone control 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by BassAdder60

[wateroftyne]

13 minutes ago, BassAdder60 said:

Resurrecting this old thread as I’ve been in this road of discovery for the last two years 

One thing I didn’t read or see mentioned was playing with a PICK !

 

Ive discovered that a PBass played with a pick is very different in EQ content compared to finger style, in my case very different 

 

The PICK played PBass as an example would sound massively mid heavy if you didn’t pull back something such as high Mids or treble etc 

The sense of reduced bass fullness with a pick also needs some EQ tweaks and also a compressor can help with initial note attack etc.

 

I still see the Pick as the best method to squeeze out the tone of the amp ( especially a valve amp ) and bass and it provides clarity that finger style smothers. The challenge is filling the band with the right bass EQ to sit with the drums and guitars 

So I think “ you need the mids” depends on many factors and in reality is too many Mids is harsh and too few is lost in the mix.

The effect mids have on perceived bass is immense, turn mids down and it sounds more bassy, turn them up and it’s less bassy !! 
I think typical amps have limited EQ points that suit everything hence why I use a floor preamp with sweepable mids etc for a bit more tone control 

 

Some of my favourite bass tones are P with a pick and - I suspect - not much in the way of mid-scoop.

[warwickhunt]

Isn't the whole EQ thing dependent on too many things to generalise about pro/con?

 

I was about to post that I have a flat EQ on my gigging amps (Thunderfunk/EBS350) but then I realised that my other amp (Tech Soundsystem Blackcat) isn't 'flat' when everything is in the centre BUT it sounds good like that.  I also used to use the contour control a lot on the Handbox WD100... which is a mid control.  

 

It literally depends on me (fingers or pick), bass (active/passive), strings (flats/rounds/old/new), amp, cabs, effects, room, band line up (guitars/keys) inc drummers kit... the list goes on.  However, I should add that I play with 4 different bands (often with interchangeable drummers), using various amps, with various musical outcomes.  If you play one thing all the time maybe one setting works.   

[fleabag]

I  think it all depends on what tone someone likes.

That's about it.

[StickyDBRmf]

I just bought the new Fender Midscoop Bass. 

Whoops. Wrong thread.

[Beedster]

10 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

Some of my favourite bass tones are P with a pick and - I suspect - not much in the way of mid-scoop.

 

Likewise 👍

[Dan Dare]

Room acoustics play a big part in how one should apply eq if one is relying on backline to fill the room. If the bass is reaching the audience via the PA, you only have to worry about onstage sound.

 

I find that scooping mids makes for a pleasanter sound at low volumes/at home, but at gig volumes (not necessarily stupidly loud ones), a mid scooped sound is too indistinct. I check how the bass sits in the mix at soundcheck using wireless or a long lead. I often find I have to boost the mids to the point where it is not particularly pleasant/a bit honky when stood next to the rig, to make it work in the mix/room.

[Lozz196]

Well tonight using my new JMJ Mustang Bass I had to boost mids slightly at 400Hz whereas with my Precisions I’d usually cut at  this area, still boosted a lot at 3kHz as I usually do. A lot less low mids in my JMJ.

[lozkerr]

3 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

I often find I have to boost the mids to the point where it is not particularly pleasant/a bit honky when stood next to the rig, to make it work in the mix/room.

Same here. I've started boosting the mids, cutting the treble to get rid of a jangly sound and cutting the bass to get rid of muddiness. I use the B string a lot and cutting the low frequencies has made a big difference to the clarity.

[Downunderwonder]

7 hours ago, lozkerr said:

Same here. I've started boosting the mids, cutting the treble to get rid of a jangly sound and cutting the bass to get rid of muddiness. I use the B string a lot and cutting the low frequencies has made a big difference to the clarity.

A high pass filter can give a lot more control over your low end when the flab is eliminated while bass knob is still free to boost or simply not cut.

[BigRedX]

Depends entirely on the genre of music you are playing, the arrangements of the songs and what the other instruments are how they have been EQ'd.

 

There is no right or wrong answer.

 

Having said that most of the music I listen to has the bass guitar prominent in the mix with plenty of mids.

[BassAdder60]

Some great comments coming back 

 

Curious though to how many who like to boost or have plenty of mids play fingerstyle ? 
 

Set up EQ for fingerstyle and then grab a pick and the whole sound changes dramatically ( does for me ) 

 

Playing a PBass with a pick in my band for rock needs those mids pulled back and this in turn sounds like an increase in bass which isn’t so prominent when using a pick 

 

I find finger style that a boost of high mids helps for clarity yet on the same bass with a pick the 400-500 hz need pulling back unless you want that nasal clanky sound ( I don’t )

 

I guess there are so many variables to consider as mentioned but many say how they boost mids but don’t say how they play as I find the difference between fingers and pick massive for me in terms of EQ and how it sits with the band, drums, guitar and vocals 

[Stub Mandrel]

I don't so much cut mids as dial in a tiny bit of treble and a chunk of extra bass on my Bass Terror. I'm fingerstyle and generally I'm aiming for a fat, bluesy tone. For the recent  general covers band though, on my Trace I didn't use preshape and dialled in a small boost for high mids and a little treble on the graphic.

 

Truth is, it all depends what you want to sound like.

[Dan Dare]

2 hours ago, BassAdder60 said:

Curious though to how many who like to boost or have plenty of mids play fingerstyle ? 

 

Good point and yes, I do. 

[lozkerr]

5 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

A high pass filter can give a lot more control over your low end when the flab is eliminated while bass knob is still free to boost or simply not cut.

Top tip, thanks! I'll give that a go.

[tubbybloke68]

On 01/04/2019 at 13:40, jazzyvee said:

Virtually every gig I go to these days the bass player has a tone that sounds like it has scooped mids.
I'd just like to know what you guys think the reason is for this?
What are the pros and cons of scooping mids  in a gig situation?

Is it just a current fashion amongst players or bass makers to use that tone or heaven forbid or maybe just that I have a lost the mids in my hearing? 🙂 http://club.alembic.com/Smileys/default/huh.gif

 

Cheers 

That explains why every’big famous band ‘ gig in a big venue I’ve ever been to the bass sound is usually an indistinguishable mush along with the drums .level 42 and rush shows included. I know different venues /difficult acoustics etc but when people are so called professionals am i asking too much to expect better?? Maybe, maybe not. 
mids are king to being able to distinguish the bass and it to cut through . An slightly unhappy graphic equaliser face makes me very happy 🤣

[BassAdder60]

2 minutes ago, tubbybloke68 said:

That explains why every’big famous band ‘ gig in a big venue I’ve ever been to the bass sound is usually an indistinguishable mush along with the drums .level 42 and rush shows included. I know different venues /difficult acoustics etc but when people are so called professionals am i asking too much to expect better?? Maybe, maybe not. 
mids are king to being able to distinguish the bass and it to cut through . An slightly unhappy graphic equaliser face makes me very happy 🤣

And that will be a function of the FOH sound 

 

My point is more relating to back line ONLY in small to medium gigs where PA is vocals only. 
Sometimes less mids are required sometimes more it depends on so many variables at the time and other instruments in the band etc 

[neepheid]

Fingerstyle, sad face EQ.  Mids r good for live playing in my experience.  It's what I do, not saying anyone else is wrong for doing the opposite.

[AScheck9]

My fender bassman is said to be "flat" with bass at 2/10, mids at 10/10 and treble at 2/10. This is generally how I play it, but tweet settings on my helix for my live sound. Even then, I push the mids so the stingray growls (but never honks!)

 

 

Mid scoop? Nah, I play the mid mountain.

 

/\

 

[attackbass]

I "scoop" mids and have no problem with cutting through. I guess I know at what frequency and by how much to reduce the mid frequencies to not obliterate my tone. 

 

I am finding I'm doing it less though it has to be said...though i haven't found to be boosting them either.

 

I think its instrument dependent tbh, I find with my p bass if I don't notch out some 400hz then there is just too much midrange, no articulation etc!

 

There are also those difficult rooms and stages where you just do whatever you can to be able to clearly hear yourself!