Scott's views on what makes for great bass tone

[Al Krow]

A lot of you will have already seen this and there's a lot of good common sense. And actually I really liked the tone on his bass at the very start of the clip!!

But I totally didn't get his comment that active bass EQ makes no difference whereas EQ settings on the amp can result in a "wildly different tone" [8:20]. 

He also seems to be suggesting that speaker cone size [9:15] has an effect on tone - smaller speakers give rise to a tighter, punchier tone. 

And how does he manage to not mention the pre-amps whether onboard, in a pedal or in the amp? Surely one of the biggest determinants of tone of them all?

So his claim to have gone into 'every single one of the big steps' that go into bass tone (and been viewed nearly 300,000 times) seems a little over-reaching.

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Al Krow

[peteb]

That one wasn't Scott's finest hour

[Twanger]

Well, he's not exactly wrong. It's just that the arguments are a bit waffly. Speaker size does matter and EQ is best for solving problems rather than "creating" tone....and he's bang on about tone pots.

[thodrik]

I watched it. As far as being one bass player's personal opinion on he achieves his own personal tone i have no issue with it. In terms of his opinions being passed off as 'essentials' for bass tone I thought it was just another case of opinion being passed off as fact. There is nothing from his free videos that would encourage me to pay money to obtain any of his knowledge. I'm happy that he has managed to build up a successful business but I just really don't gain any insight or enjoyment from his videos. 

I have slowly managed to block SBL from my social media mentions, but I still see SBL posts here on BC. When I see them I can't help but watch (it is like a drug). For my own sanity I am going to pull myself away from all SBL discussions and would ask the mods on this site to give me a warning if I so much as comment on another SBL related topic.

[skidder652003]

This is for beginners, and for that purpose it's good advice.

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, skidder652003 said:

This is for beginners, and for that purpose it's good advice.

Fair.

But, if so, he could (and should) have simply said that this was an introduction rather than imply that this was a comprehensive and full picture. I'm not sure that would have lessened the impact or benefit of this for beginners.

I just think folk who are in a position of influence and regarded as the "experts" by beginners (and I have a huge amount of respect of what Scott has managed to achieve), just need to be a mindful about making overblown claims about what they are putting out. 

[ped]

Bearing in mind what he said about YouTube the other day, I'm surprised he didn't make even crazier claims for clickbait. It's the way YouTube works, don't blame him for it - and don't confuse this stuff with his actual lessons.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

A lot of you will have already seen this and there's a lot of good common sense. And actually I really liked the tone on his bass at the very start of the clip!!

But I totally didn't get his comment that active bass EQ makes no difference whereas EQ settings on the amp can result in a "wildly different tone" [8:20]. 

He also seems to be suggesting that speaker cone size [9:15] has an effect on tone - smaller speakers give rise to a tighter, punchier tone. 

And how does he manage to not mention the pre-amps whether onboard, in a pedal or in the amp? Surely one of the biggest determinants of tone of them all?

So his claim to have gone into 'every single one of the big steps' that go into bass tone (and been viewed nearly 300,000 times) seems a little over-reaching.

 

I'm not here to sing Scotts praises,  cos I couldn't care less 😁.    but I suggest the OP watches the video again because some of the things you've stated above are incorrect and you wasn't listening.  

Scott doesn't say Active basses make no difference.   He says Active basses wont solve all your problems.  He says an Active bass doesn't sound "better" than a passive bass, it just sounds different.  and he says what an active bass does do.. is give you more flexibility from the bass, but it doesn't give you an inherently better tone, it just gives you a different tone. 

So Scott does mention pre-amp on basses, and that he doesn't like them and his is always switched off.(demonstrating this with his push/pull pot).  

And the EQ he refers to on the amp..  is the pre-amp in the amp! 
 

 

[Al Krow]

Errr not quite my reading.

Scott says "students come to him all the time and say things like they are not cutting through the mix" [7.05]. And then he dismisses using an active bass to deal with this. 

Well, actually, that is a BIG reason why I would use an active bass - by boosting the mid EQ to cut through the mix.

He can't in the same breath say that the EQ on the bass makes no difference and the EQ on the amp makes things wildly different from a tone perspective. 

And when referring to "pre-amps" he only refers to the EQ not to whether it is SS, valve etc and the fact that each pre-amp has it's own tone completely irrespective of the EQ.

He's conflating and confusing a whole bunch of issues.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Al Krow

[Ricky 4000]

There's only so much you can keep saying about the bass! 😃

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Errr not quite my reading.

Scott says "students come to him all the time and say things like they are not cutting through the mix" [7.05]. And then he dismisses using an active bass to deal with this. 

Well, actually, that is a BIG reason why I would use an active bass - by boosting the mid EQ to cut through the mix.

He can't in the same breath say that the EQ on the bass makes no difference and the EQ on the amp makes things wildly different from a tone perspective. 

And when referring to "pre-amps" he only refers to the EQ not to whether it is SS, valve etc and the fact that each pre-amp has it's own tone completely irrespective of the EQ.

He's conflating and confusing a whole bunch of issues.

I don't want another discussion.  I was only referring to 2 points you made.

You stated in your original post that Scott comments..  " that active bass EQ makes no difference".   Where does he say this?

 
You also say..   "how does he manage to not mention the pre-amps whether onboard, in a pedal or in the amp".   What do you think an active bass is?  it is an onboard pre-amp.  

If you're gonna criticize Scott, then fair enough,  but at least give him a fair trial Dude 
 

[KiOgon]

10 minutes is probably the longest I've ever managed to listen to Scott 😃 but wanted to get to the end 😂

Basicaly I have to agree with most he says - especially the big NO 😎

[Al Krow]

@Tobe we're at cross purposes here mate.

My point is that tone of a preamp in a bass, a pedal and an amp is much more than about EQ settings. 

Scott is suggesting that tweaking the EQ on an amp can have a massive impact on tone but doing that on a bass makes no difference. He can't have it both ways. EQ is basically EQ, albeit centre points play a part. 

Let's agree to disagree on this one. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

@Tobe we're at cross purposes here mate.

My point is that tone of a preamp in a bass, a pedal and an amp is much more than about EQ settings. 

Scott is suggesting that tweaking the EQ on an amp can have a massive impact on tone but doing that on a bass makes no difference. He can't have it both ways. EQ is basically EQ, albeit centre points play a part. 

Let's agree to disagree on this one. 

If he talks about Tone/color etc of each and every pre-amp then his video's will be 2-3 weeks long 😐 lol. 

I guess he's just giving 7 pointers to improve tone, not a comprehensive guide!

I still can't see where he says that active bass EQ makes no difference.  But hey ho, no worries Al Krow             

[Al Krow]

16 minutes ago, Tobe said:

If he talks about Tone/color etc of each and every pre-amp then his video's will be 2-3 weeks long 😐 lol. 

I guess he's just giving 7 pointers to improve tone, not a comprehensive guide!

Agreed

But for some reason he starts by saying it is a comprehensive guide! Why do that? 

16 minutes ago, Tobe said:

I still can't see where he says that active bass EQ makes no difference.  But hey ho, no worries Al Krow             

He does it indirectly by saying that his students complain that their basses are not cutting through the mix and goes on to say that an active bass won't help them to do that.

Well, with due respect to Scott, that's bollox: just flick the active switch, give the mids a boost and see if that doesn't make a difference compared to playing the bass passively. It will, believe me.

Tbf - he may not be aware of this as he "only ever plays his basses passively". Lol!

Ok I'm just kidding, he knows this stuff very well...

Anyway, I'm sure you and I have other things to be doing this evening than discussing this one point! Have a good rest of the day Mr Tobe  

Edited April 7, 2019 by Al Krow

[drTStingray]

Unfortunately this video, which is generally good, is ruined by this assertion about active preamps. As noted by others, it's a personal preference of Scott's.

For a guy who has so much knowledge and ability I find it astonishing he doesn't know that lots of famous tracks played even on the twin pillars of passiveness, the P and J often had their sound beefed up by an Alembic pre amp here and there, or even the famous 'Motown interface' - now commercially available as a preamp to enable you to get the correct sound. 

And what about string mutes - completely overlooked. But then again, what about metal, the bass beginning with R, pedals etc etc - all seemingly absent....

Arguably, there are a lot of people who do get a better tone (that musical noise that comes out as a signal) from an active bass than a passive one - certainly through an amp and speaker cabinet.

So I'm afraid I thought it was a good video spoiled by a few bits  of complete tosh. Regrettably, there will likely be impressionable newbies who take this stuff as gospel - which of course it isn't. After I watched it I got the feeling I was being 'radicalised' into the passive religion!! 😂😂 thankfully I'm immune 👍

Did the lack of an R in the 30 basses exercise emanate from that company not generally paying to advertise? I guess they don't need to anyway and their absence was probably more notable than if they'd been there (for 10 seconds). That's the only reason I can think unless the store didn't have one - I'd be shocked if they didn't or it was beyond the wit of the SBL back room operation to get hold of one! 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by drTStingray

[silverfoxnik]

Just watched it and thought it was pretty good overall.. 

Unless my ears are completely deceiving me, I think Scott made a fairly honest comment about active eq, saying it gave you a 'different' tone, not a 'better' tone.

Obviously, he's strongly in favour of passive basses so he's biased his comments in the video that way which, to bass players who are newer to the game, is probably a little unfair as they need to work through that themselves in their own time and their own way IMO. 

But I do think Scott is making a useful point (despite his inherent bias) if you take the whole of his comments about tone into consideration.

The video is helpful because it stresses how all the elements in the signal chain contribute towards achieving a great tone and that its particularly important to understand how to use the various eq tools you have at your disposal to their best advantage..

So for example, if you have a powerful active eq circuit on your bass, powerful eq controls on your amp and even more eq options in your pedals and FX units, then it's very possible to over use all those tools to the detriment of achieving a great bass tone. 

That's a simple yet valuable observation that's worth pointing out IMO, along with his comments about changing your strings and how you use your fingers.. 

The only other thing I think about the video is that Scott left out compression as one of the important elements in his list. 

[Rocker]

As a relative novice in bass playing, the only thing I would question is his # on strings.  I prefer a traditional dull thud Precision sound rather than the brighter more modern Jazz bass sound.  Less toppy, in fact no top at all.  This happens naturally when strings get older and more used.  I am debating with myself on whether or not to get a set of flats for my Precision.  It is a bit like deciding to buy the latest driver in the golf shop.  It might give me a few extra metres off the tee or it may be less controllable than the well used stick I have in the bag.  Do I gamble on the new or stick to what more or less works sort of OK.  Strings are a lot less expensive than golf drivers but the decision is the same.

Other than that I found that Scott made a lot of sense.  His presentation may be aimed more at beginners like me than seasoned pros.  And if so, that is fine.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

But for some reason he starts by saying it is a comprehensive guide! Why do that? 

 

Does he?  I think you and I are watching different videos!       

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, Tobe said:

Does he?  I think you and I are watching different videos!       

Clearly 😛

[0.05] "So in this video we are going to walk through EVERY SINGLE ONE of the big steps that makes up our tone as a bass player"

Doesn't get any more comprehensive than that, does it?! 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Clearly 😛

[0.05] "So in this video we are going to walk through EVERY SINGLE ONE of the big steps that makes up our tone as a bass player"

Doesn't get any more comprehensive than that, does it?! 

So he doesn't say "this is a comprehensive guide" then?   You have an amazing ability to read between the lines.  To me he's talking about the 7 big fundamental steps.  not what capacitors are in the Amp and and every single component. He's talking about the big steps.   we can talk cables and plugs and every little thing and be much more comprehensive. He isn't doing that.   I think you're being way too hard on him IMO.       

Edited April 7, 2019 by Tobe

[gjones]

No 8 - The room you're in

[chris_b]

I just watched the video and I don't have any disagreement with anything SD says.

This is just main points on a flip chart not a thesis so there is nothing controversial or inaccurate in the video.

 

[peteb]

3 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I just watched the video and I don't have any disagreement with anything SD says.

This is just main points on a flip chart not a thesis so there is nothing controversial or inaccurate in the video.

 

Dunno, he says something quite clickbaity about active basses then rows back on it, which I could quite easily disagree with. 

The thing is that everything in the signal chain affects your sound to some degree or other – from your fingers to the strings, the pickup, wood, electronics, any active onboard preamp, cable (or wireless) right through to the DI or how you mic up the cab.

[ahpook]

He likes to chuck a hot bass potato into the mix.

I mean, who doesn't ?