Compact mixer for small band line up

[Woodinblack]

The mic inputs are 2.6k, the lines are 10k, or 20k balanced.

[casapete]

Carrying on from the earlier Scouting analogy, being prepared for me is always having a spare channel or two on the mixer in case of another one going down. This has happened a few times with me over the years.

How about a compact mixer with channels to spare like the Soundcraft Notepad? I have an older version of this and it's brilliant.

https://www.andertons.co.uk/soundcraft-notepad-12fx-mixer-scr0651?LGWCODE=SCR0651;56375;6335&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm9K2wZjV4QIVEyjTCh20VQDmEAQYAyABEgLJpPD_BwE

Edited April 16, 2019 by casapete

[EBS_freak]

That notepad would get my vote 🙂

[Al Krow]

The Soundcraft 8FX does look pretty good and ticks a lot of boxes in terms of 4 inputs and 2XLR outputs plus basic reverb FX.

At 215mm x 230mm it's 20% bigger than the Behringer 1002FX, has two less usable inputs and is 60% more expensive. It does have XLR outputs, though.

I think the Behringer still edges it overall.

[Phil Starr]

Hi Al, I currently use an Alesis mixer for smaller gigs, in my case the Multimix8 with two extra inputs. It does the job and the fx is quite good, I suspect a lot of the budget mixers use the same chip to do their thing. Sound quality though is a bit meh!

I used to have the Behringer Xenyx 1204. I have to say it served us well and the sound was OK, however as soon as I bought a Yamaha MG mixer the sound quality went up a notch and I have used A&H and that is really nice. you get what you pay for a bit in this price bracket. My duo partner bought the Yamaha 8 channel mixer and we use that over the Alesis all day now. If I had my time again it would be that or the A&H I'd buy. False economy IMO.

I'd always go for one or two more channels than you need if you want to save money long term. If you are going to put a guitar through at any stage then an input that matches all guitars kind of seems a necessity and having adjustable sensitivity on all the channels gives you so much more flexibility. Those stereo channels are more about marketing than serious use. They are all advertised as it they were four extra channels but of course you can only mix them once. We have the option, which we do use, of putting bass and guitar through the PA directly and having the right channel means if something goes down at a gig you can DI and finish the gig. Extra channels every time. These things are all tiny anyway

[paul_c2]

Interesting comments regarding the sound quality. For example, the Yamaha MG16XU is £454 (has built in effects and compressors), the Yamaha MG16 is £378 (no effects though) and as comparison the Alto Live 1604 is £336. In this case, what does the extra £120 or so, buy you? Putting the specs side-by-side, each mixer has the same number of inputs and similar features etc.

[Mottlefeeder]

A more expensive mixer may well have higher quality opamps in it, or input circuits with discrete transistors as well as opamps, both of which would give you a better sound. Also, if you try and design a cheaper mixer with fewer opamps, some of them will be providing lots of gain, and may struggle to do so compared with a more conservative design using more opamps. That can also degrade the sound.

I have small mixers by Behringer, Soundcraft, Mackie and Gear4music, and the Soundcraft and Mackie sound better.

David

[Woodinblack]

43 minutes ago, Mottlefeeder said:

A more expensive mixer may well have higher quality opamps in it, or input circuits with discrete transistors as well as opamps, both of which would give you a better sound. Also, if you try and design a cheaper mixer with fewer opamps, some of them will be providing lots of gain, and may struggle to do so compared with a more conservative design using more opamps. That can also degrade the sound.

Frankly high quality opamps are about the cheapest, because they are the most commonly made. The cost difference for components between a high quality circuit and a low quality one is pennies.

[Phil Starr]

3 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

Interesting comments regarding the sound quality. For example, the Yamaha MG16XU is £454 (has built in effects and compressors), the Yamaha MG16 is £378 (no effects though) and as comparison the Alto Live 1604 is £336. In this case, what does the extra £120 or so, buy you? Putting the specs side-by-side, each mixer has the same number of inputs and similar features etc.

I was sceptical but I bought the Yamaha (MG16) to replace a Behringer which belonged to another band member when they left. No complaints about the Behringer which did us proud for five years ans was far from new when we got it. However the mic preamps in the Yamaha gave us an immediate gain in sound quality. Recently our drummer bought an old Allen and Heath, it had some problems but the sound quality is way ahead of the Yamaha. The Alesis is just about passable in quality. My mate went for a Yamaha MG10XU basically for home practice but it's a no brainer to use it instead of the Alesis. 

I doubt it's about the chips used but about the design effort and the components around them. Behringer have been using the Xenyx input stages for as long as I can remember. Their better mixers use 'Midas designed' input stages and the best Midas made, each has an improvement in sound quality.

[Al Krow]

@Phil Starr

In terms of ranking sound quality from your above posts, would I be correct in reading you as saying?

1. Allen & Heath

2. Yahama

3. Behringher

4. Alesis

If so, that bodes well for us! I have ordered a small Behringer 1002FX for use with a small band set up which has 6 usable inputs including 2 mic; and for the other bands that I'm involved with which need more mixer inputs we already have an Allen & Heath Zed60-14FX, This has 10 usable inputs including 8 mic inputs - don't see us outgrowing that any time soon! 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Al Krow

[paul_c2]

Thanks for the comments. It kind of makes sense - whilst there is nothing extra on the spec sheet, the gains (no pun intended) are there to be had. Its interesting that Behringer do a "normal" and "premium" line. I've used some of their kit before - a tuner pedal and a graphic EQ pedal - with no real complaints about the EQ but  the tuner, in the end, didn't really have the speed or sensitive hearing of other, better tuners.

One thing is clear, the market is flooded with different variations of analogue mixers, from about £40 to £6000 and everything in between, so its definitely worth doing an amount of research before buying one with possibly features you'll never ever need; or without something which you would find useful. And while a bit of room to expand is wise, it also makes sense to go for a decent brand (such as Yamaha) rather than simply find the cheapest with x inputs, or whatever your criteria is.

Unfortunately, for a big band potentially the number of inputs needed (long term) is mind-boggling (possibly 40+, a workable compromise might be 16 though). Fortunately, it won't be my money (directly) I'm spending.

 

[beely]

My first thought when I saw this thread was Alesis Multimix8FX, probably the same one as Phil Starr is talking about. I've had mine for years. It was bought initially for me doing acoustic gigs with my sister: two acoustic guitars and two vocals. It is now used for band rehearsals where we put three vocals and one acoustic guitar through the four mic inputs, and a line from the guitarist's pedal board through the left-hand line input. (It does come through both sides) I've always thought it is a cracking wee mixer with a really nice reverb.

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I doubt it's about the chips used but about the design effort and the components around them. Behringer have been using the Xenyx input stages for as long as I can remember. Their better mixers use 'Midas designed' input stages and the best Midas made, each has an improvement in sound quality.

I just use the X18 live, which has Midas inputs. Does the job for me. Wouldn't want to go back to a normal mixer.

[Phil Starr]

3 hours ago, beely said:

My first thought when I saw this thread was Alesis Multimix8FX, probably the same one as Phil Starr is talking about. I've had mine for years. It was bought initially for me doing acoustic gigs with my sister: two acoustic guitars and two vocals. It is now used for band rehearsals where we put three vocals and one acoustic guitar through the four mic inputs, and a line from the guitarist's pedal board through the left-hand line input. (It does come through both sides) I've always thought it is a cracking wee mixer with a really nice reverb.

That's the one, it does the job, the fx are good but the sound quality is just OK, you can't complain for the price but there are better out there.

[Phil Starr]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@Phil Starr

In terms of ranking sound quality from your above posts, would I be correct in reading you as saying?

1. Allen & Heath

2. Yahama

3. Behringher

4. Alesis

If so, that bodes well for us! I have ordered a small Behringer 1002FX for use with a small band set up which has 6 usable inputs including 2 mic; and for the other bands that I'm involved with which need more mixer inputs we already have an Allen & Heath Zed60-14FX, This has 10 usable inputs including 8 mic inputs - don't see us outgrowing that any time soon! 

That would be my ranking but of course A&H make a wide range of qualities

4 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

Thanks for the comments. It kind of makes sense - whilst there is nothing extra on the spec sheet, the gains (no pun intended) are there to be had. Its interesting that Behringer do a "normal" and "premium" line. I've used some of their kit before - a tuner pedal and a graphic EQ pedal - with no real complaints about the EQ but  the tuner, in the end, didn't really have the speed or sensitive hearing of other, better tuners.

One thing is clear, the market is flooded with different variations of analogue mixers, from about £40 to £6000 and everything in between, so its definitely worth doing an amount of research before buying one with possibly features you'll never ever need; or without something which you would find useful. And while a bit of room to expand is wise, it also makes sense to go for a decent brand (such as Yamaha) rather than simply find the cheapest with x inputs, or whatever your criteria is.

Unfortunately, for a big band potentially the number of inputs needed (long term) is mind-boggling (possibly 40+, a workable compromise might be 16 though). Fortunately, it won't be my money (directly) I'm spending.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I just use the X18 live, which has Midas inputs. Does the job for me. Wouldn't want to go back to a normal mixer.

The x18 has the Midas designed mic pre amps there is also a Midas version with the better Midas pro pre amps. I'm told that the Midas mixer is a definite upgrade to the X18 but I've no direct experience of the Midas mixer, The x32 which uses the same pre amp as the X18 I think has a great sound so the Midas must be terrific if what I've been told is true and it is better. To be honest the limiting factor at this point often becomes the skill of the operator rather than the mixer.

I was really responding to Al Krow's post, just saying get the extra couple of mic channels, you will use them eventually, and  that you won't regret paying a little more for the extra quality you get from moving up the food chain a step or two. if you don't have to keep upgrading it is cheaper in the long run most of the time.

At the moment I'm not in the market but if I was the Behringer X Air XR18 would be the one to beat for my needs and I can't imagine spending a fortune on an analogue mixer again once you get above £300

[tauzero]

I'm shifting over to an X-Air XR12 but I've been using a Behringer Xenyx 1002B. I like it as it has sliders for FOH on each channel rather than rotaries, but still keeps a quite small footprint by clever control layout. https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Behringer-XENYX-1002B-Mixer/AM5 However, it doesn't have built-in effects.

[Dan Dare]

For analogue, the smaller Mackie Onyx models are worth a look. Decent mic pre's and eq.

[Al Krow]

The Behringer arrived today. In terms of delivering a portable solution for small band set ups, I couldn't be happier!   

The A&H 14FX, for bigger line ups, sitting alongside, to demonstrate just what a compact mixer the Behringer is.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

Just had band mates messaging me asking why don't I just use the bigger one?

Ok let's see, I have bass amp plus bass, PA and cables and lights to load and unload for every gig...

Youngsters, sometimes don't quite realise they have been born, eh?!

😂😂

PS well at least the drummer has now messaged back to say he understands...

Edited April 26, 2019 by Al Krow

[Jack]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand this thread has a second page that I didn't see. Not only has my suggestion been already discussed but you've already bought the Behringer!

 

The Soundcraft Notepad 8FX isn't much bigger but it has 2 xlrs, 2 mono/stereo channels, really good effects and (most importantly) proper balanced outputs. I have the 5 and it's superb.

 

£75 for an Alesis (who?) or £90 for a Soundcraft? That's a no brainer as long as it isn't physically too big.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Jack

[Al Krow]

9 hours ago, Jack said:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand this thread has a second page that I didn't see. Not only has my suggestion been already discussed but you've already bought the Behringer!

The Soundcraft Notepad 8FX isn't much bigger but it has 2 xlrs, 2 mono/stereo channels, really good effects and (most importantly) proper balanced outputs. I have the 5 and it's superb.

£75 for an Alesis (who?) or £90 for a Soundcraft? That's a no brainer as long as it isn't physically too big.

Cheers Jack for the thought.

But if you A/B the Behringer 1002FX against the Soundcraft 5, the Soundcraft 'wins' on the 2 XLR outputs, but I think an unbiased person would conclude it pretty much loses on everything else, not least significantly on price.

[skidder652003]

Look Ye no further..RCF...4 XLR inputs, effects £135

https://www.djanddiscostuff.com/sound-c16/mixing-desks-c17/passive-c79/l-pad-8cx-8-channel-mixing-console-with-effects-p4159/s4364?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=rcf-professional-audio-l-pad-8cx-8-channel-mixing-console-with-effect&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=CjwKCAjw-4_mBRBuEiwA5xnFIFsktNohoOMFf9pTGZhvV9a3-R5r0W-42VEaDw32--WbV5RIPbs_RRoCYNsQAvD_BwE

Edited April 27, 2019 by skidder652003

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, skidder652003 said:

Look Ye no further..RCF...

https://www.djanddiscostuff.com/sound-c16/mixing-desks-c17/passive-c79/l-pad-6x-6-channel-mixing-console-with-effects-ex-demo-p4158/s4363?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=rcf-professional-audio-l-pad-6x-6-channel-mixing-console-with-effects&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=CjwKCAjw-4_mBRBuEiwA5xnFILL0fgz5aHpSc5elP6SU00y7OxQ06BZZuPVX8rhkOJEYBjFOmdvRdxoCDsYQAvD_BwE

That looks really good! Have RCF just gone and cloned Behringer (and are looking to charge us double for the privelege)? 😄 😄 

[skidder652003]

5 hours ago, Al Krow said:

That looks really good! Have RCF just gone and cloned Behringer (and are looking to charge us double for the privelege)? 😄 😄 

wouldn't surprise me, behringer have really upped their act recently especially with the XAir series