Drum machines - what are you using?

[Walliebal]

I use a Roland Tr-8s for practicing and recording. Very happy with it. My Novation Circuit has great sounds but is a little limited. So the Circuit is collecting dust 😁.

[BigRedX]

Since this thread has come back to life I thought I would update on my personal quest for the perfect drum machine (for me).

 

If you've been following the thread you'll have seen that I was originally looking for a decent hardware drum machine and had been leaning towards the top of the range offerings from Roland or Akai. In the end my choice was made for me by dint of the keyboard play from my band writing a bunch of new songs over lockdown using his newly acquired copy of Logic Pro X and making full use of the various drum and drum machine plugins that come bundled with it. Add to this the fact that our first pst lock-down gig was at the Goth City festival on the same bill as my other band who were already using Logic to play back our backing, meant that the idea of getting a dedicated drummer machine was a bit redundant.

 

So I've been using Logic along with the Drum Kit and Drum Machine Designer plug-ins. I also went out and bought VSDSX which is a Simmonds SDSV emulator and also comes with a virtual version of the Simmonds Clap Trap. I do all the main programming work on my desktop MacPro where I have the benefit of multiple large monitors and then transfer the files to my laptop for gigs and rehearsals. The relatively tiny screen on the laptop is just about big enough to make slight tweaks to the songs in the rehearsal room, and for anything more complicated, I make notes at the rehearsal and reprogram back at home.

 

We've done one gig with this set up and it work fine. I already have a gig-proof MacBook Pro set up that I use for my other band, and having spent some serious time working with the various drum plugins that come bundled with Logic, I really couldn't see myself going for the limitations that will come with a hardware drum machine.

[bnt]

Since I recently got my first “proper” keyboard in years (see my Korg opsix thread), I pulled out my old Akai MPC1000 to test how well it drives the Korg for basslines. The MPC1000 might be best described as a multitrack sequencer and multitimbral sample engine, with decent pads for drum programming. It uses standard WAV sample files, and has a USB disk mode so you can transfer samples directly in to its storage. I added the optional disk caddy and a spare 80GB laptop hard drive, years ago, rather than struggle with its limited CompactFlash card. It’s pretty powerful e.g. it’s capable of being a drum machine while also playing back melodic samples and driving multiple external MIDI devices, all from its sequencer. Not the most intuitive to use, though, you do need to read the manual. 

[Alfie]

On 17/12/2021 at 13:49, sammybee said:

Behringer RD-9 arrived yesterday evening after a very long delay shipping. Have resisted the urge to unwrap & plug in so far!

 

 

How has the RD-9 been now you have had time to play?

[sammybee]

20 hours ago, Alfie said:

 

How has the RD-9 been now you have had time to play?

 

Well it's sitting in the cupboard (still).... I had a short play with it a few weeks ago, but it didn't inspire me as much as I thought it would. Sure it does the TR-909 thing to a tee, and is great coupled with a 303 & 101 clone for some acid jamming or similar - which is cool, but I haven't been motivated to make that kind of stuff recently. 

Drum machine wise, atm, my Akai S900 driven by an MPC 2000xl is doing it for me. I love the simplistic nature of the S900, the 12bit crunch - it's a very musical piece of gear. 

[SumOne]

I got an MPC One today, it seems really good. 

 

I started making beats on Grooveboxes (MC 303 then MC 505) about 25 years ago before using just about every DAW going. I've bought Macbooks and Logic, decent Windows Laptops and Reason, also Cubase, Ableton etc. but DAWs and VSTs always annoy me a bit - my Laptops never seem to be quite good enough to handle it without glitchy loading times mid-song, there always seems to be an update required or the driver isn't mapping as it should, or a sample is corrupted, aVST works on a song one day then doesn't the next, lag between midi drum pads/keyboards and hearing the sound live, mapped midi controls not saving properly, output working properly via Traktor but not via the DAW, and even using Reaper I found I was spending a fair bit on VSTs (and a few free ones, but they often seem to be a spammy virus danger!). Admittedly, most of this is probably user error but I've been at it a long time and it still is a frustration so it must partly be the tools not being user friendly - it all adds up to quite a lot of time and ££ rahter than making beats and me eventually getting frustrated with it and not bothering.

 

So lately I've been heading back to hardware, for me it's more fun to use and more instant - which in some ways makes it more practical, it feels a bit more like being a musician and learning an instrument. I'd got the Teenage Engineering PO-12 (great for a pocket sized beat maker) then the Elektron Model Samples (a decent bit of kit but I found loading external samples a faff and the drum pads too stiff to use for finger drumming). It's early days but it seems the MPC One is in a whole different league to any other hardware stuff I've owned and good enough to actually ditch the Laptop DAWs. 

 

.....not cheap though.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by SumOne

[SumOne]

I'm quite amazed at how good the MPC One is as a live finger drum, drum machine, sampler, stand-alone DAW with decent plugins (including synths) sequencer. All the hardware controls (including touchscreen) make it much better for my workflow and more fun than using a Laptop DAW. 

 

Bonus is that I can plug my bass directly into it (it requires line level but my active bass goes loud) and play through it with no noticeable latency - can then add MPC effects like compression and para eq and modulation and overdrive. I'm tempted to use it to replace some of my effect pedals - it can act as a multi fx unit and simultaneously be used to trigger samples or play drum tracks. 

 

 

[carlitos71]

2 minutes ago, SumOne said:

I'm quite amazed at how good the MPC One is as a live finger drum, drum machine, sampler, stand-alone DAW with decent plugins (including synths) sequencer. All the hardware controls (including touchscreen) make it much better for my workflow and more fun than using a Laptop DAW. 

 

Bonus is that I can plug my bass directly into it (it requires line level but my active bass goes loud) and play through it with no noticeable latency - can then add MPC effects like compression and para eq and modulation and overdrive. I'm tempted to use it to replace some of my effect pedals - it can act as a multi fx unit and simultaneously be used to trigger samples or play drum tracks. 

 

 

Sounds really good, been considering ONE for a long time…

What kind of music you play?

are you using software on a computer to manage it?

any other comments, tips, etc appreciated thanks

[SumOne]

1 hour ago, carlitos71 said:

Sounds really good, been considering ONE for a long time…

What kind of music you play?

are you using software on a computer to manage it?

any other comments, tips, etc appreciated thanks

 

Perhaps it's still the honeymoon phase as I've only had it for 4 days but at the moment I think it's one of the best music purchases I've made in a long time. This 'The MPC One Blew My Mind' review sums it up quite well. And I think that review was before it got a really good firmware update https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/akai-mpc-210 . It takes time to figure out the interface because there's a lot going on as a standalone unit - lots of layers of complexity and things are done a bit differently to the usual DAW interface, but in the space of 4 days I've figured out the majority of it.

 

I was expecting a good drum machine/sampler with good drum pads to play live and to record loops, but it also has good in-built synth and fx plugins and is a capable stand-alone DAW sequencer and midi interface. Being able to play the Bass live through it and add MPC effects (up to four at a time) is a bonus I wasn't expecting, I'll be selling a few pedals to help fund it.

 

It comes free with Laptop DAW called MPC2 https://www.akaipro.com/mpc-software-2  that's worth £200 if bought separately, it's basically what's on the MPC but with a bit more control, it's good for doing things like organising sample packs and finishing tunes- doing things that can be fiddly just doing on the MPC. I think you can get a free trial of it.

 

I was really into Drum & Bass but have gradually chilled out with age and am more into Reggae and Dub nowadays. The sounds that come pre-loaded with the MPC are best suited looped electronic stuff, there are a lot of Hip Hop/Trap and electronic dance music drum kits and synth sounds. I've loaded my own Reggae/Dub samples though and as you can sample anything and play individual hits with the drum pads so I think it could potentially work with any music but is best suited to 4/4 looped stuff.

 

The minor downsides I've found so far are registering it and the software and updating firmware and importing expansion packs took me a few hours and needing the help of youtube, all works fine now though. You need to transfer samples from Laptop > SD card > MPC (unless recording directly to the MPC) as it won't do that over the USB connection. Not all of the in-depth things are obvious, it takes a fair bit of learning. More input connections would be useful, and an in-built battery would be good. They are quite minor things though, overall I'd say it's excellent.

 

[carlitos71]

9 hours ago, SumOne said:

 

Perhaps it's still the honeymoon phase as I've only had it for 4 days but at the moment I think it's one of the best music purchases I've made in a long time. This 'The MPC One Blew My Mind' review sums it up quite well. And I think that review was before it got a really good firmware update https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/akai-mpc-210 . It takes time to figure out the interface because there's a lot going on as a standalone unit - lots of layers of complexity and things are done a bit differently to the usual DAW interface, but in the space of 4 days I've figured out the majority of it.

 

I was expecting a good drum machine/sampler with good drum pads to play live and to record loops, but it also has good in-built synth and fx plugins and is a capable stand-alone DAW sequencer and midi interface. Being able to play the Bass live through it and add MPC effects (up to four at a time) is a bonus I wasn't expecting, I'll be selling a few pedals to help fund it.

 

It comes free with Laptop DAW called MPC2 https://www.akaipro.com/mpc-software-2  that's worth £200 if bought separately, it's basically what's on the MPC but with a bit more control, it's good for doing things like organising sample packs and finishing tunes- doing things that can be fiddly just doing on the MPC. I think you can get a free trial of it.

 

I was really into Drum & Bass but have gradually chilled out with age and am more into Reggae and Dub nowadays. The sounds that come pre-loaded with the MPC are best suited looped electronic stuff, there are a lot of Hip Hop/Trap and electronic dance music drum kits and synth sounds. I've loaded my own Reggae/Dub samples though and as you can sample anything and play individual hits with the drum pads so I think it could potentially work with any music but is best suited to 4/4 looped stuff.

 

The minor downsides I've found so far are registering it and the software and updating firmware and importing expansion packs took me a few hours and needing the help of youtube, all works fine now though. You need to transfer samples from Laptop > SD card > MPC (unless recording directly to the MPC) as it won't do that over the USB connection. Not all of the in-depth things are obvious, it takes a fair bit of learning. More input connections would be useful, and an in-built battery would be good. They are quite minor things though, overall I'd say it's excellent.

 

Cheers - I appreciate your comments 

and I hate you for increasing my GASsing!

[sammybee]

I just took the plunge and invested in a more 'Modern' MPC, the MPC 'Live; gen 1.   Did quite a bit of research into the options before I pulled the trigger. Basically all modern MPC's( MPC one, LIve gen 1 and 2, MPC X)  are the same platform, the only difference is in the I/O - the core machine underneath runs the same software. 

Initial impressions. Very, very easy to get going with. I had a complete hook to a song going in about 10 mins (multitrack drums, bass and keys) just using some of the built in sounds. It is really intuitive software in a lovely hardware shell. Given the right samples, you could probably get away with this being your only piece of gear. Next I decided to see if I could easily record my bass into it (and drop the synth bassline I'd previously recorded)... plugged a stingray into input 1, and it was plenty hot enough to get a good clean signal.. took me about 5 mins to figure all this out, set the level and get my first take down.

I'm not going to sell off the rest of my synths/drum machines just yet - but for what these things go for used these days, it's a no-brainer for anyone producing electronic styles, or anything needing sequenced drums, synths and samples. It also has an internal battery (6hrs) so you can sling it in a bag, jam in the park or wherever the mood takes you.

 

 

 

[Musicman666]

i have an oberheim dmx and a tempest. 

[Kiwi]

I'm  mulling over a drum machine purchase later this year.  I'm looking for something that allows beats ahead and behind the tempo for that human factor...does such a drum machine exist? 

[bartelby]

7 hours ago, Kiwi said:

I'm  mulling over a drum machine purchase later this year.  I'm looking for something that allows beats ahead and behind the tempo for that human factor...does such a drum machine exist?  Also is there one out there which will accept samples from other kits?  

 

 

My Roland R-8 from the 80s wasn't a drum machine, it was a "Human Rhythm Composer". It had parameters for adding a degree of randomness to velocity, pitch decay, timing and a couple of others. 

I'd hope modern machines can do this.

 

I used to midi it to a sampler for triggering other sounds.

 

 

[sammybee]

9 hours ago, bartelby said:

 

 

My Roland R-8 from the 80s wasn't a drum machine, it was a "Human Rhythm Composer". It had parameters for adding a degree of randomness to velocity, pitch decay, timing and a couple of others. 

I'd hope modern machines can do this.

 

I used to midi it to a sampler for triggering other sounds.

 

 

 

But (good) human drummers, don't really add randomness to their playing, which is why the R-8 (to my ears) sounds a bit weird when you turn on the humanising feature.

 

MPC's allow you to do all sorts of funky stuff with the timing (push/pull, swing, turn quantise off etc, etc). If you're looking for the ultimate control of your drums, I'd be shortlisting one

[Kiwi]

12 hours ago, sammybee said:

MPC's allow you to do all sorts of funky stuff with the timing (push/pull, swing, turn quantise off etc, etc). If you're looking for the ultimate control of your drums, I'd be shortlisting one

Looks like I'm going to join that club, then...!

[BigRedX]

What do you want the drum machine for?

 

Stand alone units are mostly for performing live when you don't want to take computer on stage, although all modern drum machines are essentially computers anyway and so are no more or less reliable. Alternatively they are for people who want to tweak the sounds and play the pads over the top, while a basic pattern is playing.

 

For almost everyone else, using a DAW with full MIDI capabilities it far more flexible and versatile. In this case Logic can't be beaten for built-in features. For sounds you have Drum Kit Designer and Drum Machine Designer; then there is Drummer (which will create a drum part based on the rhythm of the instruments already recorded), as well as full MIDI manipulation of the note data for the drum parts. To get the best out of your DAW drum programming you do need to be using one that has its roots in MIDI sequencing, such as Logic, Cubase or Performer, rather than one which is basically a multi-track recorder with some MIDI functions bolted on (Reaper, Pro-Tools).

 

One of the most useful tools I've found for replicating the feel of a real drummer is to sample a drum part that has the right "groove" and using a beater detector (I use Recycle! because it's what I'm most familiar with but most good DAWs now have similar functions built in) which turns the timing information in to a MIDI pattern which can then be used to quantise the feel into your existing drum parts (and other other MIDI instruments you are using).

 

 

[bartelby]

13 hours ago, sammybee said:

 

But (good) human drummers, don't really add randomness to their playing, which is why the R-8 (to my ears) sounds a bit weird when you turn on the humanising feature.

 

MPC's allow you to do all sorts of funky stuff with the timing (push/pull, swing, turn quantise off etc, etc). If you're looking for the ultimate control of your drums, I'd be shortlisting one

 

I'd hope modern gear is more advanced than something from the 80s 

[Kiwi]

3 hours ago, BigRedX said:

What do you want the drum machine for?

Mainly so I don't have to use a computer.  The setting up to record saps my creativity and I'm firmly opposed to designed obsolescence. This is after having spaffed hundreds of quid on otherwise perfectly functional NI kit that became obsolete after 7 years simply because drivers no longer being supported.  I want dedicated kit that I can turn on and muck about with ideas on without wasting time.

[SumOne]

9 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

So I don't have to use a computer.  The setting up in order to record saps my creativity as my computer is used for other things as well. 

 

I'd second the motion for getting an MPC.

 

I got an MPC One last year and think it's the best music thing I've got in a long time. I've spent about 25 years of production via PC & Laptops and keyboards and external drum machines/grooveboxes, the MPC is a lot more fun to use.  

 

You can record live finger drumming so that has all the 'humanised' bits of being un-quantized (or that can be quantized and then shift certain parts around). Or you can program via a grid view, or step sequencer and add randomized events (via an automatic 'humanizer' feature), or nudge everything or certain parts by however much you want.  As well as being a good drum machine, it's a good sampler, sequencer, DAW, multi fx for bass, and has plugin synths etc. There's lots to it, it makes guitar/bass digital multi-fx pedals (from companies like Line 6 and Boss) look very under-powered, under featured and over-priced.

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, SumOne said:

 

I'd second the motion for getting an MPC.

 

I got an MPC One last year and think it's the best music thing I've got in a long time. I've spent about 25 years of production via PC & Laptops and keyboards and external drum machines/grooveboxes, the MPC is a lot more fun to use.  

 

You can record live finger drumming so that has all the 'humanised' bits of being un-quantized (or that can be quantized and then shift certain parts around). Or you can program via a grid view, or step sequencer and add randomized events (via an automatic 'humanizer' feature), or nudge everything or certain parts by however much you want.  As well as being a good drum machine, it's a good sampler, sequencer, DAW, multi fx for bass, and has plugin synths etc. There's lots to it, it makes guitar/bass digital multi-fx pedals (from companies like Line 6 and Boss) look very under-powered, under featured and over-priced.

 

Wow - that last sentence got me to sit up and take notice! 

[sammybee]

25 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

Mainly so I don't have to use a computer.  The setting up to record saps my creativity and I'm firmly opposed to designed obsolescence. 

 

One of the main reasons I love my MPC(s) (And hardware in general), is that the process doesn't hinder you from making music. I always find if I try to write music within Logic that I'm composing with my eyes rather rather than my ears. Yes it comes out perfectly sequenced, but at the expense of sounding robotic & plastic-y

 

You'll find (as @SumOne says) there is a 'lot' to it, but it is very intuitive, tactile way to make music. As a die hard lover of vintage (old, heavy and clunky) gear I was really sceptical about these new fangled MPC's but I'm really glad I took a punt on mine. Even if it didn't do drums, it would be worth it for the audio recording/loop pedal/fx functionality

[BigRedX]

42 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

Mainly so I don't have to use a computer.  The setting up to record saps my creativity and I'm firmly opposed to designed obsolescence. This is after having spaffed hundreds of quid on otherwise perfectly functional NI kit that became obsolete after 7 years simply because drivers no longer being supported.  I want dedicated kit that I can turn on and muck about with ideas on without wasting time.

 

That's fair enough.

 

My computer is also used for my day job so it is permanently switched on and it just takes a couple of seconds to load Logic and I'm ready to work on music rather than graphics. Besides I work on my song ideas on the bass or guitar first and don't involve the computer until I have at least the verse and chorus music worked out and a good idea in my head of what the drums and any other instruments are going to be doing.

 

When I went back to using the computer with my bands I made a conscious decision that wasn't going to use any third party plug-ins, because the ones that come bundled with Logic were more than adequate for everything I would want to do, and IME there are more than enough options available for the composition process. I did break that rule once because I wanted Simmons drum sounds and I didn't have the right variations in samples I made when I used to own an SDSV so I bought a plug-in that emulates this in a fully adjustable way.

 

I also found that hardware was the quickest way to designed obsolescence. I used to have a lot of high-tech recording and sound generating devices bought when I was building my "home studio" during the 90s. Over the years the vast majority of these have failed usually in some very expensive and/or non-repairable way and often the only way to replicate what they were doing was to buy the same thing second hand and hope that it lasted a little bit longer. Also most of them took all their sounds and settings with them when they stopped working, because although I tried to back them up when ever possible I didn't remember every time I created a new sound/patch and for most the backup would only be of use with another identical device.

 

I also learnt that I simply don't have the skills to be a good enough recording engineer to ever be happy with something I have done myself, and therefore, for me, composing and recording are now two entirely separate operations. 

[Kiwi]

6 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

My computer is also used for my day job so it is permanently switched on and it just takes a couple of seconds to load Logic and I'm ready to work on music rather than graphics.

I use mine for graphics, music, website administration, movie watching, music practice and teaching preparation. And I don't have the collection of rack hardware with me at the moment but when I do, I'll need to set all the MIDI connections and patches up within the DAW in order to access them via a keyboard or MIDI bass or whatever.  So, like you, I tend to see the PC as a job for recording the bones of a piece once the framework is done rather than something for trying out ideas for a framework as they happen.  But unlike you I don't have the experience or skill to form songs in my head.  I need to externalise it first.

[BigRedX]

On 20/02/2023 at 13:32, Kiwi said:

I use mine for graphics, music, website administration, movie watching, music practice and teaching preparation. And I don't have the collection of rack hardware with me at the moment but when I do, I'll need to set all the MIDI connections and patches up within the DAW in order to access them via a keyboard or MIDI bass or whatever.  So, like you, I tend to see the PC as a job for recording the bones of a piece once the framework is done rather than something for trying out ideas for a framework as they happen.  But unlike you I don't have the experience or skill to form songs in my head.  I need to externalise it first.

 

To me that sounds more like a limitation of your chosen DAW and/or computer. 

 

I used to have a dedicated home studio full of musical hardware in it's own room, but these days my studio is my Mac on the desk running logic. Everything is done "in the box". Most of the time I monitor on headphones, but the Mac is also connected permanently to a decent amp and speakers via the optical output which I use when I listen to music while doing the less mentally demanding parts of my work. Programming is mostly done with the mouse and QWERTY keyboard, and the MIDI keyboard only comes out when playing something in is quicker (it connects via USB for data and power and is automatically recognised by Logic when plugged in). For the limited amount of audio recording I do everything goes through the Helix which would be set up anyway if I was playing guitar or bass. I've done composing and programming before just using a laptop and a pair of headphones, and for me the main limitation is the small size of the screen rather than the lack of peripherals.