Delberthot Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I plan on going seriously ultra light next year. I love my Schroeder 1212L but it is far too much for what i need it for. I was using it out front with my rock band but we're not playing so it only gets used as a monitor. I have the input volume on my GK 700RB II at 11 o'clock and the output at 9, sometimes 10 o'clock. Not sure exactly how much power I'm chucking out the amp with these settings. The cab is a 4 ohm fellow. The plan is to go lighter and possibly smaller. I like the idea of the Omni 10.5 with the smaller size and light weight but also like the idea of the DR250 as they seem to be more efficient than the omni cabs are. My plan was also to make them from 9mm rather than 12mm ply to reduce the weight further. I don't have a problem with the construction. I like a challenge so either one is possible. I have read a lot about these cabs here, finnbass & on Bill's own forum as well as a few other sites where they get compared to other cabs in terms of efficiency. I can't find any efficiency specs on the omnis. Does anyone know how they compare to the Schroeder cabs since they are pretty efficient themselves? I've seen the DR250 in the for sale section but its too far away and I know these things are expensive to ship properly or I'd have snapped it up to try it out myself. I think I've checked everything I could before posting this thread but if I've missed anything then feel free to point me in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I have owned an omni 10.5 and a Schroder 1212R - And listened to my schroder 1212R A/B'd against an omni 10, so i think im in a position to be of some use! (for once...? ) anyway, i actually think you'll be really disappointed if you switch from the schroeder. While the BFMs cut really well they really lack punch and depth (IMO) If you've got a wicked ace PA and your backline really is simply for hearing yourself, one omni 10.5 will cope. But i like being able to come home after a long day and get some really nice deep tone, which i just couldnt get with the BFM cab, but came with the schroeder in oodles! Weigh up what you need. If at all possible keep the schroeder until the build has finished so you can really decide weather its worth the trade offs! Good luck! Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 [quote name='MythSte' post='352351' date='Dec 11 2008, 09:04 PM']I have owned an omni 10.5 and a Schroder 1212R - And listened to my schroder 1212R A/B'd against an omni 10, so i think im in a position to be of some use! (for once...? ) anyway, i actually think you'll be really disappointed if you switch from the schroeder. Stephen[/quote]Agreed, the O10.5 is just too small to get the kind of bottom from one ten that the Schro does with two twelves. Now I can't compare it directly to the 1212, but I do know that the DR250 does get more from one ten than a full size O10 does from two. 9mm will work with a second set of horn braces to further stiffen the sides. Manufacturer's sensitivity figures are worthless as they are not back up by SPL charts to show what the full bandwidth sensitivity is, as opposed to just one (most flattering) point out of over 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 SPL plot for a Schroder 1212R (vs a 2x10" with 2510-II and an SWR Son of Bertha). Note that the SPL isn't referenced to 1W but it gives an idea of frequency response: Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 [quote name='Delberthot' post='352339' date='Dec 12 2008, 01:22 AM']I plan on going seriously ultra light next year. I love my Schroeder 1212L but it is far too much for what i need it for. I was using it out front with my rock band but we're not playing so it only gets used as a monitor. I have the input volume on my GK 700RB II at 11 o'clock and the output at 9, sometimes 10 o'clock. Not sure exactly how much power I'm chucking out the amp with these settings. The cab is a 4 ohm fellow.[/quote] Unless you have absolutely no interest in bottom-end then I don't believe you will find anything that can match your Schroeder in output yet is smaller and lighter. But you think the Schroeder is overkill - personally I suspect you're using more of its output than you realise! Why? Becase I wouldn't be surprised if you're regularly using full power with those knob settings and the Schroeder is a high sensitivity cab with pretty decent excursion limited power handling (but very little true bass extension - see plot above) so very little will compare. (If you're willing to take the tonal compromise or you like that tone then the Schroeder concept will give you just about the loudest cab for its size that it is physically possible to make). My Compact 15" is pound for pound about as loud as its possible to make a cab with less compromised bass extension (though it needs more power to get loud than some very high sensitivity designs it can handle quite a lot more power) but its no smaller (a bit taller and wider but shallower) than a 1212. You can't get workable bottom that can hang in a rock band from a much smaller cab. Some perspective is required! Reading the first line of your post is like reading the same line on a car forum by an owner of an original mini - you're already seriously ultra light, what do you want, a bicycle?! You're already sorted! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 I want a bicycle! fantastic. Overnight I've managed to receive enough information to decide to keep my existing cab. Thanks for everyone's help. I think I'll just get the lightweight amp which comes in at about 20% of the weight of my current one (excluding rack & rack tuner) and see if Jorg can do me one of those telescopic dollies that attach to the cab so I can wheel it around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 [quote name='Delberthot' post='352391' date='Dec 12 2008, 08:20 AM']I think I'll just get the lightweight amp which comes in at about 20% of the weight of my current one (excluding rack & rack tuner)[/quote] Good idea! (And I presume you'll be deracking and getting rid of the big flashy tuner too! I had one of those in my rack for years because it looked cool but I started to notice it was never getting used - probably a lot more useful if you play a dodgy 'vintage' bass that doesn't hold its tuning well and you have roadies...) Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I used a schroder and markbass LM2 with BRILLIANT results. I used the pair at glastonbury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 (edited) [quote name='alexclaber' post='352396' date='Dec 12 2008, 08:33 AM']Good idea! (And I presume you'll be deracking and getting rid of the big flashy tuner too! I had one of those in my rack for years because it looked cool but I started to notice it was never getting used - probably a lot more useful if you play a dodgy 'vintage' bass that doesn't hold its tuning well and you have roadies...) Alex[/quote] My plan is to sell the amp, rack & tuner - yes it is flashy, does the knightrider sweep with the LEDs when its not being used! Me likey flashy lights. I use the cab on a Giraffe cab stand pointing up at me and plan on making something so that I can have the new amp sitting just below the cab attached to the stand with a really short speakon-speakon cable going to the cab. I'm also going to bring my Korg pedal tuner out of retirement and use this on the floor right underneath the cab. Another reason for looking into the BFM cab was that I could modify the design to accomodate the amp. This will free up the space where my rack normally sits on a keyboard stand so that i can get myself a sturdy music stand instead of those floppy ones that fall over when you breathe on them. I'm going to have a light on there so i can actually read my music and position the band's lighting controller on this as well. Edited December 12, 2008 by Delberthot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 (edited) [quote name='alexclaber' post='352365' date='Dec 12 2008, 02:37 AM']SPL plot for a Schroder 1212R (vs a 2x10" with 2510-II and an SWR Son of Bertha). Note that the SPL isn't referenced to 1W but it gives an idea of frequency response: Alex[/quote]It's very difficult to see the 1212 trace (green). On close examination you see that the 1212 doesn't have more bass response or sensitivity than the others. It has a very much scooped mid response, and less sensitivity below 80Hz, where real bass lies. It does have higher sensitivity in the midbass around 100Hz, where the ear is far more sensitive than in the low bass, The sum total of these gives the subjective impression that it's louder than the others. But it isn't. There are no exceptions to Hoffman's Iron Law on display here. Edited December 12, 2008 by Bill Fitzmaurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-basser Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 If you do ever decide to sell the schroeder...I'll have it email me if you change your mind, I can be at Camelon station that day with cash in hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 [quote name='d-basser' post='352994' date='Dec 12 2008, 06:57 PM']If you do ever decide to sell the schroeder...I'll have it [/quote] You beat me to it ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-basser Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 i'm a wee bitty closer to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Shush you I can't afford it right now anyway. I still need to get a play on your Dingwall sometime too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-basser Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 megabus to glasgow man, you can play my bass and crash on the sofa bed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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