Midi controllable presets on your analogue pedals

[GisserD]

I've had an idea.... and it may be a good one

I've come up with a workable and cost effective design for a control system that would allow users to effectively use midi PC data to set presets on their existing analogue pedals. It wouldn't involve any electronics or soldering on the users part, and would be easily retrofittable to virtually any pedalboard, and wouldn't take up any more space than a power supply.

The idea is that there would be a number of channels, and the user can define which pots they control. They could be multiple pots on the same pedal, or many pot on multiple pedals.

 

Is this something that you as a pedal buyer/user/lover/addict (delete as appropriate) would be interested in?

 

Any questions, comments, suggestions will be welcomed.

I anticipate a lot of comments regarding cost so lets say for argument's sake it costs no more than £35 per channel.

 

edit*

If anybody has some programming skills and would like to come onboard with a project like this then id welcome a partnership. I have all the mechanicals down, but the programming is beyond me.

PM me if your interested.

Edited April 21, 2019 by GisserD
programmer reqd.

[Al Krow]

Sounds great! Count me in! 

I'm guessing you'll be putting the same question to TB'ers, where you're building up a bit of a following with your FI housing design?

You'll be setting up a Southern version of COG next, before we know it!

Edited April 18, 2019 by Al Krow

[GisserD]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Sounds great! Count me in! 

I'm guessing same question to TB'ers, where you're building up a bit of a following with your FI housing design. 

You'll be setting up a Southern version of COG next, before you know it! 

Thanks Bas, ill probably keep the discussion on this side of the pond for now.

So do you realistically think that it would be a product that you would spend your hard earned on?

[Al Krow]

In principle absolutely!

Key criteria for me would be:

1) how many pedals it could control? 

2) size? 

3) how does it differ / improve on eg a Boss ES8? 

4) obviously cost. 

[GisserD]

1) how many pedals it could control? its a modular design so im thinking there will be choice between maybe 5-10 channels per unit

2) size? no bigger than a Voodoo PP2+ power supply

3) how does it differ / improve on eg a Boss ES8? it wouldn't be a loop switcher. I appreciate however that it may be best utilised on a board that has one.

4) obviously cost. impossible to sat at the moment, but to be a viable product i think it would have to be sub £35 per channel

[EBS_freak]

I'm guessing you are implementing something along these lines - with a servo/motor instead of the impression pedal?

[EBS_freak]

A more analogue take on the stompenberg!

https://www.thomann.de/blog/en/stompenberg-effects/

[GisserD]

 

1 minute ago, EBS_freak said:

I'm guessing you are implementing something along these lines - with a servo/motor instead of the impression pedal?

Sort of yes. But my solution is far more discrete.

[EBS_freak]

Just now, GisserD said:

 

Sort of yes. But my solution is far more discrete.

Indeed - the servo element can be almost directly attached to the pot. I take it that you have seen this? -

 

[EBS_freak]

PS - the only reason I'm in the know on this - I've already been there. I can also give you the heads up that trimming the pots by the controller is key - thats the gotcha. Not all pots are equal in the amount they rotate.

[GisserD]

i have seen that. but that's not how im proposing to do it.

 

Having the servo on the pedal like that clearly isn't an option

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, GisserD said:

i have seen that. but that's not how im proposing to do it.

 

Having the servo on the pedal like that clearly isn't an option

No - and thats where the fun begins - securing the servo so it can bit to all pedals, that's where things start getting complex. The "third hand" is actually a very good method, having used one - but very clunky for controlling multiple channels. Interested to see how you progress... especially for something universal.

[GisserD]

3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

PS - the only reason I'm in the know on this - I've already been there. I can also give you the heads up that trimming the pots by the controller is key - thats the gotcha. Not all pots are equal in the amount they rotate.

yes the design allows for eact pot to be uniquely trimmed, by manually setting a maximum and minimum. then the program will do the rest.

The design allows the user to set the pot position, and the program will know where it is. Without this feedback look, the whole system would be useless.

[Quatschmacher]

@GisserD

Sounds really cool. Does it require any modification to the pedals it controls? Do you have to remove the original knobs? Can the pedals be dialled in the same way as normal (i.e. with hands and then the positions saved) or do all adjustments need to be done via the new controller?

When you talk of channels, is each knob controlled by a separate MIDI channel? Or is each of your units (with however many controls) addressed on a single MIDI channel and then each knob controlled by a different CC number on that one channel?

I’m very curious. Presets on my Enigma would be wicked. 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Quatschmacher

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 3, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[GisserD]

Does it require any modification to the pedals it controls? No

Do you have to remove the original knobs? Yes, the system will require the removal of knobs, but if i can make it low profile enough, i may be able to replace the knobs on top of the mechanism.

Can the pedals be dialled in the same way as normal (i.e. with hands and then the positions saved) yes that's how it will work

or do all adjustments need to be done via the new controller? No

When you talk of channels, is each knob controlled by a separate MIDI channel? Or is each of your units (with however many controls) addressed on a single MIDI channel and then each knob controlled by a different CC number on that one channel? It will work on one midi channel. Controlling multiple parameter channels

Edited April 21, 2019 by GisserD
elaborated on some answers

[CameronJ]

This sounds incredibly cool, and combined with a loop switcher like a Boss ES8 or Gig Rig G2 could give players serious control. Definitely following this!

[Quatschmacher]

13 minutes ago, GisserD said:

Does it require any modification to the pedals it controls? No

 

Do you have to remove the original knobs? Yes, the system will require the removal of knobs

Can the pedals be dialled in the same way as normal (i.e. with hands and then the positions saved) yes that's how it will work

or do all adjustments need to be done via the new controller? No

When you talk of channels, is each knob controlled by a separate MIDI channel? Or is each of your units (with however many controls) addressed on a single MIDI channel and then each knob controlled by a different CC number on that one channel?

It will wotk on one midi chanel. Controlling multiple parameter chanells

That sounds cool then.

Will it fit pedals with knobs close together or those slim, non-removable knobs (the ones which just look like shafts (like on the Glou-Glou Pralines))?

[GisserD]

I'm aiming at the MXR BEF as a benchmark. Pralines stick thinks might be a push too far... 

[GisserD]

3 hours ago, CameronJ said:

This sounds incredibly cool, and combined with a loop switcher like a Boss ES8 or Gig Rig G2 could give players serious control. Definitely following this!

i think it will be most useful on a loop switcher based rig for fully automated preset control. but it would still useful without one, the user would just still have to switch the pedals on and off.

[GisserD]

If anybody has some programming skills and would like to come onboard with a project like this then id welcome a partnership. I have all the mechanicals down, but the programming is beyond me.

PM me if your interested.

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, GisserD said:

If anybody has some programming skills and would like to come onboard with a project like this then id welcome a partnership. I have all the mechanicals down, but the programming is beyond me.

PM me if your interested.

What’s your microprocessor of choice?

[GisserD]

for the prototype i've been looking at arduino, as that seems to be easily accessible,  but i doubt that will be the choice for the end product. 

[RigorMortens]

If you are in Arduino-territory, then I'd recommend the Teensy instead, it's like an Arduino with build in MIDI support (Also over USB). I'm using it myself for a MIDI-fied expression pedal, and a (preset)switcher I'm currently working on.

PM on the way

[EBS_freak]

Teensy is a good call.

PS Have you any idea how you are going to be saving settings?

For example, you may want to think of stuff in terms of banks and patches. Maybe each bank having 4 presets. If you then said had a support for 8 pedals with say, 3 variable controllers, thats something like 96 bytes of information per bank. Be wary that some microprocessors have relatively small EEPROM. For example, taking this example, that would give you only 5 banks. A lot of people will use a bank per song... so be mindful to get something that can handle this sort of memory requirement. This is also assuming fixed values... you may want some movement (which would be really cool and certainly something that I'd imagine would be really cool - imagine a tremolo effect for example, by turning a volume pot up and down)

Before going too far, get some requirements nailed down from the guys that are going to use this.

Additionally, been thinking about this, not sure that servo is the best option for this - you may want to look into stepper motors.

Shout me if you want some more info.

Edited April 21, 2019 by EBS_freak