Bass Challenge: What the hell is this bass?

[ron s]

Hi

New to the forum, found it in a search for the origin of this un-named precision copy. I'm hoping that a 70's/80's Japanese copies expert (loads I'm sure :-) can identify this old precision rip-off for the sake of my satisfaction/sanity.

I have had this bass since 1985ish. It cost me £60

It's a Fender Precision copy, and began life as a 3 tone S/B maple neck, tortoiseshell pickguard (it's now black but we don't talk about that).
It has 'Made In Japan' on the neck plate.
It has a sticker on the back of the neck with No. 814410.
It has a plywood body and it is HEAVY
It is a very accurate copy (as in most fender parts will retro-fit)
It came with all the chrome covers.
The neck is unbelievably thick! (but nice, or at least I like it)
The neck has a maple cap
It had no logo when I bought it (and never had! No finish has been removed) it currently sports a F logo (I don't intend to ever sell it though so let's not go into the politics)
It was S/H when I bought it so must be older than mid 80's
I remember seeing another identical one for sale back in the late 80's, again with no logo.
It has no other distinguishing marks.
It sounds V NICE.

Other people I've contacted have ruled out Fender Japan(Fujigen)/Squier, Tokai and Greco

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance
Ron

[attachment=17095:Body.jpg]

[attachment=17096:Headstock.jpg]

[attachment=17097:Plate.jpg]

[attachment=17098:Serial.jpg]

[neepheid]

Captain JapCrap will be along shortly

[KennysFord]

Enter Bassassin stage left............
Bugger,you beat me to it

Edited December 12, 2008 by kennyrodg

[William James Easton]

i'll give you £50 for it!

[ron s]

[quote name='Rusty Shackleford' post='352520' date='Dec 12 2008, 10:57 AM']i'll give you £50 for it![/quote]

Wow! Thanks for your kind offer!

[leschirons]

I seem to remember "Kay" did a lawsuit precision in about 81-82. Might be worth investigating that one.

[ron s]

[quote name='leschirons' post='352596' date='Dec 12 2008, 12:01 PM']I seem to remember "Kay" did a lawsuit precision in about 81-82. Might be worth investigating that one.[/quote]

Thanks. I did have a quick look for that one. Apparently the Kay body was identifiable in that it was in 2 halves sandwiched together (the KB24 I believe?) but this one has a standard ply (lots of small layers).

Thanks again, I will have another search for Kay copies.

[KennysFord]

Hey Ron,
search the members list for bassassin and drop him a pm just in case.
His knowledge of things that include the words "Jap" and "Bass" knows no bounds.

[Musky]

[quote name='ron s' post='352606' date='Dec 12 2008, 12:06 PM']Thanks. I did have a quick look for that one. Apparently the Kay body was identifiable in that it was in 2 halves sandwiched together (the KB24 I believe?) but this one has a standard ply (lots of small layers).

Thanks again, I will have another search for Kay copies.[/quote]

Yeah, definitely not the KB24 - yours is far more accurate.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='ron s' post='352510' date='Dec 12 2008, 10:48 AM']It has a sticker on the back of the neck with No. 814410.

Any ideas?

Ron[/quote]

Your bass was made on Oct.44th 1981.

Next.

[RayFW]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='352723' date='Dec 12 2008, 02:21 PM']Your bass was made on Oct.44th 1981.

Next.[/quote]
Ah, 1981 and the October that we thought would never end.
I remember it well.

Edited December 12, 2008 by rayfw

[Delberthot]

I believe that its a Fuktifino Persizion Base

[spinynorman]

[quote name='ron s' post='352510' date='Dec 12 2008, 10:48 AM']Hi

New to the forum, found it in a search for the origin of this un-named precision copy. I'm hoping that a 70's/80's Japanese copies expert (loads I'm sure :-) can identify this old precision rip-off for the sake of my satisfaction/sanity. [/quote]

From experience your sanity may be more at risk than you realise. I had an EB3 copy that was clearly based on the same design as Ibanez and one or two others, but without the logo it wasn't one. A reasonable guess would be it was made in the same factory, and that's as far as I got, until, stupidly, I sold it.

Bassassin may have a list of factories that made plywood bodied p's with maple necks and dot markers, but the answer is unlikely to enhance its value. Since you enjoy playing it, I'd settle for that.

[Stylon Pilson]

According to Google, your bass is actually a PD TRANSFORMER MODULE made by Tellabs.

Hope this helps.

S.P.

[WHUFC BASS]

I think with the "Made In Japan" plate on the back it was made in the Matsumoko Factory in Japan. This is where the Westones and Aria guitars were made as well as Greco. Could well be an early Greco model.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='368145' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:25 PM']I think with the "Made In Japan" plate on the back it was made in the Matsumoko Factory in Japan. This is where the Westones and Aria guitars were made as well as Greco. Could well be an early Greco model.[/quote]
How the living arse did I miss this one?

Sorry WHUFC, that's not a Mat. They never used this style of neckplate. Also to continue hair-splitting, they only made [i]some[/i] Grecos - Fujigen Gakki made around half of the early 70s, and the majority of late 70s & early 80s Grecos. Since it's only a brand name, like most Jap "makes", other factories built them too, and as such if it doesn't say "Greco", it [b]can't[/b] be one.

It's also not a Kay, by any stretch of the imagination. First of all, it doesn't say "Kay" on it - after it stopped being a US made brand, Kay became just a label, and they've been made all over the world, from Taiwan to Korea to the old East Germany. Funnily, I've never seen a Japanese one, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Anyway, the sandwich-bodied KB24 was early 70s Taiwanese, later ply ones were probably Korean.

So anyway, there are two clues to the origin of this bass. Clue one is the neckplate - this style, with the MIJ stamp on the lower half, appears on all confirmed pre-serial Fujigen instruments. Not all post '75 Fujigens were serialised so these plates were used on later instruments too. Serialised Fujigens have a date-decodable SN stamped in the middle of the plate.

Several other manufacturers occasionally used this type of plate, including Chushin Gakki & Moridaira, probably because hardware like this was ordered in from outside suppliers and batches would doubtless vary.

Clue no. 2 is the serial sticker, which is quite a lot like this:

[attachment=17967:serialsticker.jpg]

Which is on a Moridaira-built Hohner which I bought new in 1983 - my first grown-up g*it*r. I've seen these on other Moridairas, they appear to be sequential, so I'm 99.9% confident that this bass is a Mori, and built a little while before my old plank. Mine was old stock when I got it so was probably made in 1981/82, this bass is about 48,000 units younger than mine, presuming the numbering's sequential. It's really anyone's guess what that means, I really have no idea what the factory's output would have been.

So Moridaira's not exactly the best-known Japanese manufacturer - in reality they were an acoustic builder who jumped on the copy bandwagon in the 70s. They generally seem to be medium/good quality - well-made but with a few corners cut here & there. As well as building MIJ Hohners they're known to have made some of the CMI-branded copies from the early/mid 70s, Lotus in the US, and also their own Morris house-brand. The electrics seemed to disappear in the 80s.

They're still around now, like many surviving Japanese companies from the 70s largely involved in importing & distribution, but still have their Morris brand acoustics, some of which are still made in-house.

Jon.

[fretmeister]

I'm not sure whether to be really impressed with that knowledge.... or really appalled!!!

[gafbass02]

Crazy dude, just crazy.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='fretmeister' post='368504' date='Jan 2 2009, 02:52 PM']I'm not sure whether to be really impressed with that knowledge.... or really appalled!!!


[/quote]
It's a curse and a burden, knowing about things.

Be thankful that loonies like me are rare, and we live in a lovely world run by people who know f@ck-all about anything and because of that, everything's great for everyone!



J.

[WHUFC BASS]

Of course you're right Bassassin! I meant the Fujigen Gakki, not Matsumoko. I have a Jazz Bass, that I think is Cimar (Ibanez) that has this MADE IN JAPAN neckplate. and if I remember correctly it was you that told me that it was made by Fujigen Gakki. In fact this Jazz bass isn't that bad. Its under my bed in bits at the moment and has been so for ages. I'm seriously considering selling it.

I'm digging your knowledge of all the lawsuit stuff. I'm really fascinated by it too, having owned two Burny Les Pauls, an Orville Thunderbird, Westone Thunder 1A, Aria B900 and Greco precision in the past.

Edited January 2, 2009 by WHUFC BASS

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='368423' date='Jan 2 2009, 01:12 PM']How the living arse did I miss this one?

Sorry WHUFC, that's not a Mat. They never used this style of neckplate. Also to continue hair-splitting, they only made [i]some[/i] Grecos - Fujigen Gakki made around half of the early 70s, and the majority of late 70s & early 80s Grecos. Since it's only a brand name, like most Jap "makes", other factories built them too, and as such if it doesn't say "Greco", it [b]can't[/b] be one.

It's also not a Kay, by any stretch of the imagination. First of all, it doesn't say "Kay" on it - after it stopped being a US made brand, Kay became just a label, and they've been made all over the world, from Taiwan to Korea to the old East Germany. Funnily, I've never seen a Japanese one, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Anyway, the sandwich-bodied KB24 was early 70s Taiwanese, later ply ones were probably Korean.

So anyway, there are two clues to the origin of this bass. Clue one is the neckplate - this style, with the MIJ stamp on the lower half, appears on all confirmed pre-serial Fujigen instruments. Not all post '75 Fujigens were serialised so these plates were used on later instruments too. Serialised Fujigens have a date-decodable SN stamped in the middle of the plate.

Several other manufacturers occasionally used this type of plate, including Chushin Gakki & Moridaira, probably because hardware like this was ordered in from outside suppliers and batches would doubtless vary.

Clue no. 2 is the serial sticker, which is quite a lot like this:

[attachment=17967:serialsticker.jpg]

Which is on a Moridaira-built Hohner which I bought new in 1983 - my first grown-up g*it*r. I've seen these on other Moridairas, they appear to be sequential, so I'm 99.9% confident that this bass is a Mori, and built a little while before my old plank. Mine was old stock when I got it so was probably made in 1981/82, this bass is about 48,000 units younger than mine, presuming the numbering's sequential. It's really anyone's guess what that means, I really have no idea what the factory's output would have been.

So Moridaira's not exactly the best-known Japanese manufacturer - in reality they were an acoustic builder who jumped on the copy bandwagon in the 70s. They generally seem to be medium/good quality - well-made but with a few corners cut here & there. As well as building MIJ Hohners they're known to have made some of the CMI-branded copies from the early/mid 70s, Lotus in the US, and also their own Morris house-brand. The electrics seemed to disappear in the 80s.

They're still around now, like many surviving Japanese companies from the 70s largely involved in importing & distribution, but still have their Morris brand acoustics, some of which are still made in-house.

Jon.[/quote]

I've still got mine - I used to borrow it off of my Dad's bassist before I got my first real Fender - this was back in '83 - and the Hohner had a classic P look to it; 3-tone burst with a black scratchplate - I used to just sit staring at it as it was a Fender style bass which was a dream shape-wise! It was later resprayed olympic white and had a DiMarzio p/up fitted- and was then sold off - I then found it in a local shop (for local players!) and bought it back for purely nostalgic reasons - on saying that, it is a very well made bass which plays nicely!

[wizbat]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='368737' date='Jan 2 2009, 07:20 PM']It's a curse and a burden, knowing about things.

Be thankful that loonies like me are rare, and we live in a lovely world run by people who know f@ck-all about anything and because of that, everything's great for everyone!



J.[/quote]


Nice one Jon!!

Long live the King of Japcrap!!!!