New Rickenbacker Al Cisneros

[mr zed]

On ‎21‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 18:38, Beedster said:

A signature bass from Ric? 

Didn't they also do a Lemmy and a Chris Squire sig bass?

[Cosmo Valdemar]

8 minutes ago, mr zed said:

Didn't they also do a Lemmy and a Chris Squire sig bass?

Indeed! And some guitar sig models - Pete Townshend and Glenn Frey spring to mind.

[Sammers]

Doesn’t half love his walnut and maple!

Wonder if I’ll get a peek of it at Desertfest this year! 😄

[prowla]

9 hours ago, bartelby said:

More "innovation" from Rickenbacker. The 4003AC features a single trussrod!

I've seen that pic on FB - I do hope they don't go down that road; Rics have the best truss rod design as they stand.

[dannybuoy]

On 21/04/2019 at 10:27, bartelby said:

It's a limited edition, and it is a shame it's not green. But then, that might have pushed me over the edge and I'd have ordered one...

Ahem:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvphmXYA20t

[bartelby]

5 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

Ahem:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvphmXYA20t

Yeah, I did see that. Fortunately it's not a 4003AC.
Although, it's very tasty from the other angle...

Edited April 26, 2019 by bartelby

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 3, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Bassassin]

15 hours ago, prowla said:

I've seen that pic on FB - I do hope they don't go down that road; Rics have the best truss rod design as they stand.

Serious question Paul - how so? I never understood why they retained the twin rod system after phasing out those strips of bent mild steel they'd used in lieu of proper truss rods up until the 4003 was introduced.

Clearly  dual rods can be used to correct neck twist, but the opposite argument is that removing the massive amounts of timber necessary to accomodate them makes the neck inherently weaker and more flexible - and likely more prone to twisting & instability through unequal string tension.

I've never owned a real Rick but I'd speculate that adjusting the truss rods - a basic job on other basses - becomes way more complex/hit & miss when you have to balance tension of rods against each other as well as the pull from the strings.

To me the various non-standard changes on the Cisneros bass are a massive leap forwards for Rickenbacker - finally dragging them into the mid 20th century!

[NikNik]

2 hours ago, Bassassin said:

Serious question Paul - how so? I never understood why they retained the twin rod system after phasing out those strips of bent mild steel they'd used in lieu of proper truss rods up until the 4003 was introduced.

Clearly  dual rods can be used to correct neck twist, but the opposite argument is that removing the massive amounts of timber necessary to accomodate them makes the neck inherently weaker and more flexible - and likely more prone to twisting & instability through unequal string tension.

I've never owned a real Rick but I'd speculate that adjusting the truss rods - a basic job on other basses - becomes way more complex/hit & miss when you have to balance tension of rods against each other as well as the pull from the strings.

To me the various non-standard changes on the Cisneros bass are a massive leap forwards for Rickenbacker - finally dragging them into the mid 20th century!

My 4003S/8 rods were so US that I got Jimmy Moon to replace them with the ones he uses. Neck stabilised and then I sold that Rick. 

[prowla]

2 hours ago, Bassassin said:

Serious question Paul - how so? I never understood why they retained the twin rod system after phasing out those strips of bent mild steel they'd used in lieu of proper truss rods up until the 4003 was introduced.

Clearly  dual rods can be used to correct neck twist, but the opposite argument is that removing the massive amounts of timber necessary to accomodate them makes the neck inherently weaker and more flexible - and likely more prone to twisting & instability through unequal string tension.

I've never owned a real Rick but I'd speculate that adjusting the truss rods - a basic job on other basses - becomes way more complex/hit & miss when you have to balance tension of rods against each other as well as the pull from the strings.

To me the various non-standard changes on the Cisneros bass are a massive leap forwards for Rickenbacker - finally dragging them into the mid 20th century!

Wow - you've never had a Ric?

I find them very adjustable and they do the neck twist like it says on the tin.

Plus, they are field-replaceable if they go wrong.

If you are concerned whether they are in-step, you can loosen them and then do equal turns for each and tweak at the end, though if they were way off then one would be a lot looser than the other.

I don't know about massive steps forward.

Is that single truss-rod from the AC?

The two visually obvious changes on the bass are:

• The new/prototype/custom bridge, which may well be a good 'un.
• The pickups layout, which suits his style, but won't a lot of other people's.

If the bridge does make it into production it could well be an incremental step forwards.

[Bassassin]

8 minutes ago, prowla said:

Wow - you've never had a Ric?

I find them very adjustable and they do the neck twist like it says on the tin.

Plus, they are field-replaceable if they go wrong.

All Fakers, all the time! I do have a twin-rod neckthrough Matsumoku copy but it's always been borderline unplayable because of the dreaded banana-neck syndrome that these are susceptible to. Lovely looking bass but the epitome of a wall-hanger. My other two MIJs are a through-neck Shaftesbury (probably - no trc when I got it) and bolt-neck Kasuga, both of which have single standard rods and rock-solid necks, which have needed no adjustment in years.

Very good point about replaceability though - do the post-4003 basses have this? I knew it was the case with the old style rods.

Pickup positioning on the Cisneros is interesting, and more in keeping with most modern 2-pup basses. Wonder how it'll sound? Expect most players would remove at least one of the covers though. I really like the cut-down pickguard, I've always thought the standard shape looks like an afterthought and jars with the design of the rest of the bass.

 

[prowla]

30 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

All Fakers, all the time! I do have a twin-rod neckthrough Matsumoku copy but it's always been borderline unplayable because of the dreaded banana-neck syndrome that these are susceptible to. Lovely looking bass but the epitome of a wall-hanger. My other two MIJs are a through-neck Shaftesbury (probably - no trc when I got it) and bolt-neck Kasuga, both of which have single standard rods and rock-solid necks, which have needed no adjustment in years.

Very good point about replaceability though - do the post-4003 basses have this? I knew it was the case with the old style rods.

Pickup positioning on the Cisneros is interesting, and more in keeping with most modern 2-pup basses. Wonder how it'll sound? Expect most players would remove at least one of the covers though. I really like the cut-down pickguard, I've always thought the standard shape looks like an afterthought and jars with the design of the rest of the bass.

 

Rics are a big step up from the fakers. 

The 4003 rods are replaceable. 

I checked out a video of AC and he holds the bass at an angle and plays on the neck, so he probably got them to shift the pickups out of the way. 

[NikNik]

1 hour ago, prowla said:

Rics are a big step up from the fakers. 

 

Not from certain ones. Maybe the 4003 range but certainly not the 4001.

[prowla]

4 hours ago, NikNik said:

Not from certain ones. Maybe the 4003 range but certainly not the 4001.

I've never played a faker which is as good as a Ric.

Mind you, I've only got 7 Rics and 3 fakers at the moment.

[dannybuoy]

Interview with Al where he talks about the bass:

https://www.musicradar.com/news/al-cisneros-sleepom-when-im-stoned-its-readily-apparent-whether-a-rhythm-has-a-shelf-life-or-not

[RossHetherington]

Once you've chucked the two covers in the bin it might be playable by a normal bassist. 

[prowla]

46 minutes ago, RossHetherington said:

Once you've chucked the two covers in the bin it might be playable by a normal bassist. 

I think people would tend to be disinclined to describe Al C as normal...

Edited September 8, 2019 by prowla

[4000]

On 27/04/2019 at 10:30, Bassassin said:

Serious question Paul - how so? I never understood why they retained the twin rod system after phasing out those strips of bent mild steel they'd used in lieu of proper truss rods up until the 4003 was introduced.

Clearly  dual rods can be used to correct neck twist, but the opposite argument is that removing the massive amounts of timber necessary to accomodate them makes the neck inherently weaker and more flexible - and likely more prone to twisting & instability through unequal string tension.

I've never owned a real Rick but I'd speculate that adjusting the truss rods - a basic job on other basses - becomes way more complex/hit & miss when you have to balance tension of rods against each other as well as the pull from the strings.

To me the various non-standard changes on the Cisneros bass are a massive leap forwards for Rickenbacker - finally dragging them into the mid 20th century!

I find the 4003 rods generally easier to adjust a neck to my preferences than single rods, but then I am very used to them. Liked them on my Alembics too.  Admittedly the older rods can a bit more of a pain, but then as Prowla says all are field replaceable. I recently got a replica 4001 from the same builder who made some 4005s on here and to be honest the main thing I regret was getting a single rod. For me, it just doesn’t work as well.

I’ve never had any problem with Ric necks that haven’t been caused by someone previously adjusting them incorrectly. No warping, no twisting, and I like very low action. I’ve also never played a faker as good as my basses, including the one mentioned above. But then I’ve played a lot of Rics that aren’t as good too. 😉

Edited September 8, 2019 by 4000

[mikeswals]

I've got one of these AC's. This bass comes factory supplied with treble bezels you install yourself, as I'm sure they knew the buying public would not want two treble pickup covers in their way. At first I was only going to install the rear bezel but decided do both for now to explore the whole playing field comparing it to my regular 4003. The new bridge is a great feature, but the bass came setup and intonated perfectly I didn't have to adjust anything.

 

[prowla]

It looks to me like the new bridge/tailpiece assembly needs more body routing to fit, so it won't be a drop-in replacement.

[paul_5]

I’ve always had a problem with Ric basses. I love the way they sound, but have always thought that a neck through construction is somewhat negated by routing out massive chasms for the oversized pickup surrounds, all to accommodate a pickup that’s smaller than a Jazz bass unit.

exhibit A:

 

[4000]

I always thought that the worst piece of design I’ve ever seen was having to take a neck off to adjust a truss rod. Or fit a shim to get the correct neck height/angle.

[AndyTravis]

13 minutes ago, 4000 said:

I always thought that the worst piece of design I’ve ever seen was having to take a neck off to adjust a truss rod. Or fit a shim to get the correct neck height/angle.

I totally get your point.

in saying that - I really like being able to adjust a bass to fit to me.

The running joke is that whenever people play my basses they buzz and rattle...’unplayable’.

if the neck is “set” the parameters for adjustment are also set. 

The neck off truss rod adjustment is a poor design and apart from period accurate reissues - I don’t see the point, in fact I don’t think they exist outside of that genre.

And if you buy into the reissue thing you have to take it on the chin.

the shim thing - if done properly...can be very effective.

 

 

[Beer of the Bass]

10 hours ago, 4000 said:

I always thought that the worst piece of design I’ve ever seen was having to take a neck off to adjust a truss rod. Or fit a shim to get the correct neck height/angle.

OTOH, the ability to correct the neck angle without major woodworking could be seen as a positive!

[prowla]

14 hours ago, paul_5 said:

I’ve always had a problem with Ric basses. I love the way they sound, but have always thought that a neck through construction is somewhat negated by routing out massive chasms for the oversized pickup surrounds, all to accommodate a pickup that’s smaller than a Jazz bass unit.

exhibit A:

 

Yeah, but they play, sound, and look great!