Trace Elliott ELF vs TC Electronic BAM200 opinions?

[stewblack]

9 hours ago, mcnach said:

Ideally yes, but not every gig venue has a suitable PA in place and not every band has a big enough PA for those situations

Words out of my mouth. There was a time my band only played venues with full pa, a team of sound engineers and I still humped a firkin great 8x10 around. 

Sadly those days are gone and I'm now in multiple bands playing some tiny pubs and some cavernous great function rooms, or average sized village halls. We cart a pa which can handle our vocals and maybe a mic on the snare and kick, but while it might handle the bass I would still need a big enough monitor for us all to hear it. So I take two light weight cabs with me whether I need them or not. If I don't need them I turn down. 

[Ögon]

Does anyone have the TE200 with the 1x10 cab?

This may seem a silly question:
The stages i play on are really small.. Mostly i am 1-1.5m from the amp (3.3-5ft)
To hear myself better, i tilt-back the amp 45 degrees with a ampstand.

I am not sure if i need to tilt-back the TE200+1x10 cab if i'm that close,
But... what if i need to? Is it possible to kickback the TE200+1x10 cab 45 degrees or will the amp slide towards the floor?

I noticed the cab has a mold shape for the TE200 amp to fit in, i'm curious how well it would hold when it's tilt back 45 degrees.

Same question for the markbass lm250 with 1x10 TE cab, but that is heavier, so assume it falls.. But its worth asking..

Edited June 15, 2020 by Ögon89

[stewblack]

14 hours ago, Ögon89 said:

Does anyone have the TE200 with the 1x10 cab?

This may seem a silly question:
The stages i play on are really small.. Mostly i am 1-1.5m from the amp (3.3-5ft)
To hear myself better, i tilt-back the amp 45 degrees with a ampstand.

I am not sure if i need to tilt-back the TE200+1x10 cab if i'm that close,
But... what if i need to? Is it possible to kickback the TE200+1x10 cab 45 degrees or will the amp slide towards the floor?

I noticed the cab has a mold shape for the TE200 amp to fit in, i'm curious how well it would hold when it's tilt back 45 degrees.

Same question for the markbass lm250 with 1x10 TE cab, but that is heavier, so assume it falls.. But its worth asking..

Folk on Basschat are famous for using an IKEA laptop stand for just this purpose. 

I bet someone will come along with a picture of it holding an amp. a link to help you out. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00GMM74T0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_-8-5EbKS0T0YW

Edited June 15, 2020 by stewblack

[lemmywinks]

I used one of those Ikea stands with a Markbass LMII tilted back about 45 degrees on a Club 121 cab so it shouldn't be a problem. They're 42cm wide though so you may need to trim it for a 1x10. 

 

EDIT the Ikea tray is 42cm(W) x 31cm(D) and the Trace 110 is apparently 31cm(W) x 36cm(D) so you would have to trim the width.

Edited June 16, 2020 by lemmywinks

[Ögon]

Thanks guys. 🙂 Usefull advice. Im hoping to find a shop which has the TE200w, TE 1x10 and Markbass LM250 black in stock so i can try them out. If i like the TE200w the most, then im gonna buy the TE ELF 1x10 Combo version. (Most shops dont have the combo yet.. they say its in stock in august)

Edited June 16, 2020 by Ögon89

[mcnach]

I have used a couple of different stands to tilt combos/single cabs. My favourite is the appropriately named Stagg GAS 4.2:

STAGG GAS 4.2

 

It's simple, adjustable, folds nearly flat, and less than £15. I used mine a lot and it's still in good condition.

I also had the 3.2 previously, which folds completely flat and takes next to no space at all which is nice, but it's not adjustable and I found my CMD121P combo would wobble a little on it although it was stable enough:

 

[Ögon]

I ended up buying a secondhand TE 208 cab and a new Markbass Little Mark 250 blackline head.

The 208 is awesome. The low end is incredeble. I never thought it would be that tight, it can seriously move some air...

 

I compared the MB to the TE Elf 200 and the Ashdown Original HD-1:

The ashdown sounded a bit liveless to me.. Maybe its ok if you have a really bright bass...

I didnt like the compression of the ELF because i noticed that at 50% volume the EQ controls seems to have less effect? It also seemed like the low end was being cut when i raised the volume/gain more.

 
The MB has way more low end and EQ options and it sounds louder then the ELF. 
Honesty: the VLE and the VPF knobs are kinda useless to me.

The VLE can be ok for sub bass tones, until about 30%.
Above 30% its like you are playing bass guitar through a subwoofer...
The VPF knob made my P-bass sound like i was playing through a 2 inch crappy speaker or something, like it was blown up.

The MB fan is barely noticeable btw. 

Thanks for your help. 🙂

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Ögon89

[mcnach]

Soooo glad I bought the BAM200.

Tonight we had our first 'gig' in months. One of our usual venues, doors closed, no audience, live-streamed into the interwebz. I was going to use the house amplifier, but I decided to put the BAM200 in the gig bag. It was, after all, the reason I bought it, a 'just in case'.

Well, during sound check the volume would be erratic, louder, quieter, louder again... So here comes the BAM200. Beautiful. It looked ridiculous on top of a 410, but it sounded really good. As I had already noticed, I had to bring the mids up and bass down a bit to get it into the territory I prefer, and yes, it definitely is not a super loud amp, but it is loud enough for this purpose. 

It is pretty good sounding!

 

 

[BassmanPaul]

I'd trust something made by Peavey far more than anything TCE puts out! 

[mcnach]

On 04/08/2020 at 18:48, BassmanPaul said:

I'd trust something made by Peavey far more than anything TCE puts out! 

 

Neither is what they used to be 20 years ago. I think you're just as good with either.

[CalDeep]

On 27/06/2019 at 04:22, Boombox DC said:

I have TCE BH 250 and love it, mostly because it has a built in tuner that’s always on - one less thing to remember.  I ignore the tone print.  I’m baffled why more amps, especially these tiny heads, don’t have built in tuners?  And why TCE new line doesn’t have them anymore?  Any thoughts?   And yes, I have the TCE Clíp on too but prefer to have it built in.   I use the GK112MBX CAB, mostly because it’s 16 lbs and easy to carry around with the GK bag. 

How's you get on with the power handling on this? I'm looking at the exact same rig. 

 

Well, I've got my MBX, on this thread looking for a tiny head to pair it with! 

[FirstBass]

I recently bought a BAM200 for rehearsals with a tiny 1x10 basslite loaded cab i'm currently building

 

My other reason for purchase is to stash it in my gig bag to get me over the line if my main amp (TC BH800) bites the dust

 

Its silly tiny. 

 

Its loud for it's size and spec - I wouldn't consider using it to gig with on a regular basis

 

Not sure of output @ 8 ohms, but I would imagine 150-160 watts maybe?????

 

It's no frills (power switch, mains in, speaker out 1/4, input, headphones, gain, low, mid, high, volume, DI, ground/lift)

 

Its nicely put together

 

The fan is pretty quiet

 

The eq is very tweakable

 

My ears hear a fair bit of signal compression as the gain is wound round

 

For the cost (£117.50 when ordered) I thought it'd be a get out of jail card for future gigs

 

If you're normally a speakon/speakon lead user, you'll need a jack/speakon lead. 

 

Easily stashed, easy to use, cheap enough to lay dormant without feeling bad about not using it all the while

 

Looks crazy sat on top of any "normal" gigging type cab.... Like somebody's left a packet of smokes behind 😁

 

Cute little beasty

 

 

[lemmywinks]

1 hour ago, GlamBass74 said:

Looks crazy sat on top of any "normal" gigging type cab.... Like somebody's left a packet of smokes behind 😁

 

 

 

 

This is what I use at rehearsal. looks ridiculous:

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by lemmywinks

[JohnDaBass]

1 hour ago, GlamBass74 said:

I recently bought a BAM200 for rehearsals with a tiny 1x10 basslite loaded cab i'm currently building

 

My other reason for purchase is to stash it in my gig bag to get me over the line if my main amp (TC BH800) bites the dust

 

Its silly tiny. 

 

Its loud for it's size and spec - I wouldn't consider using it to gig with on a regular basis

 

Not sure of output @ 8 ohms, but I would imagine 150-160 watts maybe?????

 

It's no frills (power switch, mains in, speaker out 1/4, input, headphones, gain, low, mid, high, volume, DI, ground/lift)

 

Its nicely put together

 

The fan is pretty quiet

 

The eq is very tweakable

 

My ears hear a fair bit of signal compression as the gain is wound round

 

For the cost (£117.50 when ordered) I thought it'd be a get out of jail card for future gigs

 

If you're normally a speakon/speakon lead user, you'll need a jack/speakon lead. 

 

Easily stashed, easy to use, cheap enough to lay dormant without feeling bad about not using it all the while

 

Looks crazy sat on top of any "normal" gigging type cab.... Like somebody's left a packet of smokes behind 😁

 

Cute little beasty

 

 

If you are building the 1x 10 cab take a look at @stevie and @Phil Starr threads on the Easy Build lock down cab and The House Jam micro cab or even my House Jam Micro combo thread as they will provide some interesting reading and guidance.

[FirstBass]

I've built 2 easy builds, a mk2 basschat cab and am now finishing a mk3 - they're great designs (stevie and phil are great contributors to this forum and very helpful)

 

I'm going "solo" on this one. I have the speaker and i'm going to see what I can get from it. 😄

 

Speaker cabinet building seems to be my "catnip".... i'm addicted! 

[Chienmortbb]

20 hours ago, GlamBass74 said:

If you're normally a speakon/speakon lead user, you'll need a jack/speakon lead. 

I recently made a jack-speakon lead for @JohnDaBassfor his combo  but personally, I would not buy an amp with a jack speaker output. Jacks were never designed for speakers, they are too easy to short out*, and many cannot take more that 0.5 amps.  That is 2 watts for an 8 ohm speaker and 1 watt for a 4 ohm speaker. There are jacks (sockets) that will take more from Neutrik, Cliff and Switchcraft (I think). The jack sockets in Neutrik combo SpeakOns are rated at 10 amps.

 

*A manufacturer, that I will not name, once told me that shorted jack cables were the biggest single cause of solid state amplifiers blowing.

[Rothko]

Slightly alarmed by what @Chienmortbb said above, as the owner of a Gnome with only jack outputs. After a bit of research, it seems the main danger is plugging/unplugging jack speaker cables while the amp is on, thus creating a potential short.

 

Is this the primary problem with using jacks? A TB post from @agedhorse seemed to say the danger was less for amps under 200w, so maybe the jack-socketed but low-powered BAMs and Gnomes are safe enough?

[lemmywinks]

6 hours ago, GlamBass74 said:

I've built 2 easy builds, a mk2 basschat cab and am now finishing a mk3 - they're great designs (stevie and phil are great contributors to this forum and very helpful)

 

I'm going "solo" on this one. I have the speaker and i'm going to see what I can get from it. 😄

 

Speaker cabinet building seems to be my "catnip".... i'm addicted! 

 

Do you have a thread for the Basslite 1x10? I love home built micro cabs, could read build threads all day!

[Downunderwonder]

7 hours ago, Rothko said:

.

 

Is this the primary problem with using jacks? A TB post from @agedhorse seemed to say the danger was less for amps under 200w, so maybe the jack-socketed but low-powered BAMs and Gnomes are safe enough?

The problem is with the new class D amps having bridged outputs that puts signal ground to the case. It becomes relatively easy to accidentally short circuit the amp if you are waving a lead around while it is on.

 

200w is a 'safe' number to put through a phone jack/plug without causing a fire. Nothing to do with the bridged output issue.

[FirstBass]

11 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

 

Do you have a thread for the Basslite 1x10? I love home built micro cabs, could read build threads all day!

Hi.

I didn't plan on one, but I'm only at the winisd stage at present

I will have a think about it. 

 

[agedhorse]

7 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

The problem is with the new class D amps having bridged outputs that puts signal ground to the case. It becomes relatively easy to accidentally short circuit the amp if you are waving a lead around while it is on.

 

200w is a 'safe' number to put through a phone jack/plug without causing a fire. Nothing to do with the bridged output issue.

Correct, there are multiple disadvantages to the 1/4” (6.35mm) jack. 
 

Aside from the above issues, as the power rating grows on a bridged amp, the sleeve/shell terminal which is a driven terminal and NOT grounded/earthed, the voltage grows as well and the voltage on the sleeve can be 70V above ground and 140V above the tip. 
 

Some safety agencies in some regions do not automatically accept the safe voltages of audio signals (specific class of output port) being different from a general supply port, which places the threshold somewhere in the 200-400 watt range depending on impedance. 

[BassmanPaul]

The 1/4" phone plug was originally designed for use on operator telephone switchboards. Their 'working' voltage was 48V DC.

[Chienmortbb]

On 19/01/2022 at 23:02, Downunderwonder said:

The problem is with the new class D amps having bridged outputs that puts signal ground to the case. It becomes relatively easy to accidentally short circuit the amp if you are waving a lead around while it is on.

 

200w is a 'safe' number to put through a phone jack/plug without causing a fire. Nothing to do with the bridged output issue.

200W is 5 amps into 8 ohms or 7 amps into 4 ohms. The average signal jack is rated at between 0.5 and 2 amps because they are designed as signal connectors. Neutrik, Cliff and Switchcraft and a very few others do design jacks for higher current but the current rating depends on both the jack and plug. As most plugs are for signals again they are rated at 0.5A. So there is a good chance that you are overloading one of the 4 connectors ona jack lead. A  good manufacturer will know that and install high current jacks, however offshore production does add a variable into the mix. Did someone "improve" the design by substituting a locally produced jack?

 

I know a lot of people will come back saying that they have put 400W or more through a jack connection for 2 zillion years. I like to look at it like car tyres. Each has a speed rating and exceeding that rating may or may not cause a blow out. However if you consistantly go outside the specs, something disastrous could happen.

 

As for the issue of grounding a class D output. It may or may not be disastrous. Some will, like AB amps, be ground referenced and normally these will be the higher powered amps. Smaller amps will usually be made with chips that require bridging to achieve the power output. If an amp is bridged, then connecting any speaker terminal to ground, earth, 0V or whatever you want to call it may, at best, test the protection circuit but could  destroy the chip. That is when you find out that magic smoke is not really magic at all.

 

Neutrik did not invent the SpeakOn connector to p155 us off. It was because jack(and other types) speaker connectors were the cause of the destruction of many amplifiers.

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Chienmortbb

[BassmanPaul]

I switched ALL my speaker cables to SpeakOn years ago. That includes my PA and vocal monitor cables. I used the four pole versions as manufacturers seemed to have settled on that particular connector.

[Downunderwonder]

11 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

200W is 5 amps into 8 ohms or 7 amps into 4 ohms. The average signal jack is rated at between 0.5 and 2 amps because they are designed as signal connectors.

They don't go poof because they are also rated for a heap more voltage and the average bass signal is very much less than its peak voltage so the power is much lower than peak in practice.