Trace Elliott ELF vs TC Electronic BAM200 opinions?

[Salt on your Bass?]

@stewblack nice video, thank you. Really enlightening. I'm probably going to give one a whirl on that basis! Much appreciated

[stewblack]

2 hours ago, MartinB said:

didn't think my Precision was particularly low-output, but with it my Elf stays clean right up until the distortion circuit kicks in at the end of the Gain dial. I don't get a red light either - only green (signal) and amber (compression).

Ah good point I made a mistake. Used my Bruce Thomas Profile precision which has  a crazy hot pick up. My bad. 

Should do again with a standard pbass 

[mcnach]

The TCE BAM200 arrived today.

This thing is tiny! Tiny, but oh it gets loud!

It's definitely a clean amplifier, not like the Elf that you can get a bit of grunt from as you turn up the gain. I was playing it side by side with a MarkBass LMIII, and I have to say I prefer the MarkBass, the BAM200 appears to have a bit of a mid-scoop going on and enhanced lows, with the EQ knobs all at 12 o'clock, but if I turn the mids up a bit and the lows down a bit, it gets to the same ballpark as the LMIII. 

I am amazed at how loud this thing can get. It may not be my favourite amplifier, but for £119 you get a perfectly useable amplifier that is powerful enough to save a gig, in a package that is barely a bit bigger than a couple of Boss pedals. What's not to like?

I think sound-wise I would have preferred the Elf, however the fact that the BAM200 stays clean means I have access to clean bass at any volume and I prefer that. If I want a bit of dirt, I have a selection of pedals I can use for that.

[Lozz196]

Sounds like an ideal amp to take to gigs as a backup. 

[stewblack]

What Lozz said. Sounds bang on. A little back pocket insurance. Congrats! 

[mcnach]

3 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Sounds like an ideal amp to take to gigs as a backup. 

 

That was the idea. It would fit in a gigbag's pocket with a couple of cables, strings etc. 

I mean, small amplifier heads are not rare, but this is another kind of small. I've played with it a bit longer... it's actually pretty nice. No, it won't replace my Mesa D800+  but I'd be happy to play any gig with this. 

Let me say it again... £119! 

Why couldn't we have these things when I was a poor teenager starting out? 

It's strictly clean, 'though. If you want to be able to warm up the sound a bit then the Elf would be a better option. Having said that, the Joyo American Sound pedal or the TCE Spark Booster are very good with the BAM200... 

 

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, mcnach said:

Joyo American Sound pedal or the TCE Spark Booster are very good with the BAM200... 

Couldn't  agree more. The California Sound is really good too. For a more subtle break up I recommend the Sweet Baby

[mcnach]

10 hours ago, stewblack said:

Couldn't  agree more. The California Sound is really good too. For a more subtle break up I recommend the Sweet Baby

 

I had a Sweet Baby years ago, I liked it on guitar but not on bass. I can't remember what it was exactly about it. Maybe I just had another I liked better, as I remember I bought a few in one go just to find the one I liked best. I do remember liking it on guitar. Ah, so many toys, so little time!

[lownote]

On 27/04/2019 at 20:38, JohnDaBass said:

I believe the Elf is produced by Trace Elliot!

But Ashdown may soon be handling Trace servicing.

[Merton]

5 hours ago, lownote12 said:

But Ashdown may soon be handling Trace servicing.

Only for pre-1999 products according to Mark Gooday, of course that's where their knowledge and family lineage is. I doubt they'd want to touch the current Peavey products.

[Ögon]

On 01/06/2020 at 19:09, mcnach said:

The TCE BAM200 arrived today.

This thing is tiny! Tiny, but oh it gets loud!

It's definitely a clean amplifier, not like the Elf that you can get a bit of grunt from as you turn up the gain. I was playing it side by side with a MarkBass LMIII, and I have to say I prefer the MarkBass, the BAM200 appears to have a bit of a mid-scoop going on and enhanced lows, with the EQ knobs all at 12 o'clock, but if I turn the mids up a bit and the lows down a bit, it gets to the same ballpark as the LMIII. 

I am amazed at how loud this thing can get. It may not be my favourite amplifier, but for £119 you get a perfectly useable amplifier that is powerful enough to save a gig, in a package that is barely a bit bigger than a couple of Boss pedals. What's not to like?

I think sound-wise I would have preferred the Elf, however the fact that the BAM200 stays clean means I have access to clean bass at any volume and I prefer that. If I want a bit of dirt, I have a selection of pedals I can use for that.

I'm currently considering a ultraportable bassamp rig with TC Electronic OR Trace Elliot, amp / cab.
Did you ever try the TC Electronic BQ250? I'm curious how it compares to the BAM200 in tone. If not, maybe anyone else in here can give me some thoughts on it.

----  
Did anyone compare the Trace Elliot 1x10 cab with the TC electronic BC208 tonewise? 

The MarkBass Little Mark 250 seems okay too. Any thoughts on that?

Ps. i joined this site today, just for this topic. 🙂

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ögon89

[mcnach]

3 hours ago, Ögon89 said:

I'm currently considering a ultraportable bassamp rig with TC Electronic OR Trace Elliot, amp / cab.
Did you ever try the TC Electronic BQ250? I'm curious how it compares to the BAM200 in tone. If not, maybe anyone else in here can give me some thoughts on it.

----  
Did anyone compare the Trace Elliot 1x10 cab with the TC electronic BC208 tonewise? 

The MarkBass Little Mark 250 seems okay too. Any thoughts on that?

Ps. i joined this site today, just for this topic. 🙂

 

welcome to the forum!

 

I have used a BQ250 a few times in a local bar that do open mic sessions. I can't say how similar it is to the BAM200, but I don't think they're very different. I went with the BAM200 because what I wanted was a VERY small amp that would easily fit in my gigbag as a backup. I play (or used to play before the virus!) a lot of gigs in small bars where we'd bring all of our equipment, which included a small PA just for vocals and horns, really. I like the idea of having a backup amplifier just in case for those situations: even if 200W is not a lot, with a couple of 210 cabs it will be ok. Space is sometimes an issue, and having one extra bit of gear adds a higher chance of losing something, while the BAM200 will just be inside my gig bag (Fusion F1, pretty big and lots of storage) so it won't add to the amount of gear we travel with.

If the BQ250 is not too big for you, I'd probably get that because of the more versatile EQ and a little more power, and the amplifier is what, about £20 more? I also like the 'handles' which protect the knobs. However, if you think the Little Mark 250 is still portable enough... then I'd ignore the TCE and get the MarkBass without hesitation. In my opinion it's a much nicer all round amplifier.

To give you an idea of the relative sizes, here's my BAM200 on top of the LMIII (which I believe is the same size as the LM250). The BAM200 (and the ELF!) is *tiny*. It really is not much bigger than most DI boxes.

 

 

[Ögon]

3 hours ago, mcnach said:

If the BQ250 is not too big for you, I'd probably get that because of the more versatile EQ and a little more power, and the amplifier is what, about £20 more? I also like the 'handles' which protect the knobs. However, if you think the Little Mark 250 is still portable enough... then I'd ignore the TCE and get the MarkBass without hesitation. In my opinion it's a much nicer all round amplifier.

To give you an idea of the relative sizes, here's my BAM200 on top of the LMIII (which I believe is the same size as the LM250). The BAM200 (and the ELF!) is *tiny*. It really is not much bigger than most DI boxes.

thanks for your long reply. Either size is ok, but i dont want bigger or heavier then the MB LM250.

 Im a bit of a newbie to differences in tone / bass amp brands, but online i noticed two big differences in bass amps tonewise: scooped/vintage OR tiny bit less low/more mids. Can you explain the differinces in tone, markbass lm250 and tce bam200? How are the lows and mids?

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ögon89
Making the quoted window smaller... so it doesnt fill the screen.

[mcnach]

3 hours ago, Ögon89 said:

thanks for your long reply. Either size is ok, but i dont want bigger or heavier then the MB LM250.

 Im a bit of a newbie to differences in tone / bass amp brands, but online i noticed two big differences in bass amps tonewise: scooped/vintage OR tiny bit less low/more mids. Can you explain the differinces in tone, markbass lm250 and tce bam200? How are the lows and mids?

 

Well, here comes another long post, probably 😛

 

I'd say both are versatile enough. Some amps, you're right, they seem to be geared towards one type of sound especially but I think these here are pretty neutral. The BAM200 is a little mid scooped with the controls all at 12 o'clock, but you can adjust by turning up the mids (although I seem to prefer turning down the bass a bit and the treble a bit more, as in my picture... but it's early days, I only bought it a couple of weeks ago or so and only used it at home so far). 

If you don't need the super-small footprint, I'd really get the LM250. It's got a decent EQ section (low and high mids separately come handy) and it's got the MarkBass VLE and VPF filters which I find very useful (so much so, that I also bought the SuperBooster pedal, which is the VLE and VPF filters in pedal form). It's got a more than decent DI (my main band's second album was recorded using my LMIII's DI in the studio) and its output is adjustable, which I found extremely useful a few times. The LM250 is, like the LMIII, pretty 'neutral', which means it's very easy to get any kind of sound out of it except overdriven. You can't drive the input in order to get a bit of warm distortion, it's strictly clean... but so is the BAM200. The TE ELF does get dirty as you turn the input gain up (there's a video up here in this thread illustrating that, it sounds pretty good), but unless that's the sound you want most (all?) of the time, I'd rather have an amplifier that gives me clean bass at any output level, and I can add dirt if I want to (Joyo American Sound, a little £35 pedal, is one of my favourites... and it makes my guitars sound great through the bass amplifier too).

I think the BAM200 is a great backup amplifier, something you can take anywhere easily and will probably do a decent job, but it would not be my main amplifier. The LM250, however, I'd be quite happy owning that as my only amplifier. Spend a little time getting to understand how the VLE and VPF filters work and interact, and you'll be amazed how easy it can go from old school to modern crystal clear tones to dub to... anything you want. I'm a fan of the Little Mark amplifiers, but I promise I don't get commission

edit: I'm not sure where you are, but if you happen to be near Edinburgh let me know and I'll let you try the BAM200, LMIII (which is not the same, but it's meant to be close enough in sound to the LM250) and a Mesa D800+ while we're at it. 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by mcnach

[BillyBass]

37 minutes ago, mcnach said:

The TE ELF does get dirty as you turn the input gain up (there's a video up here in this thread illustrating that, it sounds pretty good), but unless that's the sound you want most (all?) of the time, I'd rather have an amplifier that gives me clean bass at any output level, and I can add dirt if I want to (Joyo American Sound, a little £35 pedal, is one of my favourites... and it makes my guitars sound great through the bass amplifier too).

The Elf only gets dirty with the gain almost full on.  You can leave the gain slightly off this level and whack up the volume, you will have clean and very loud.

P.S. nice bass playing on one in ten.

Edited June 11, 2020 by BillyBass

[mcnach]

33 minutes ago, BillyBass said:

The Elf only gets dirty with the gain almost full on.  You can leave the gain slightly off this level and whack up the volume, you will have clean and very loud.

P.S. nice bass playing on one in ten.

 

Maybe 'dirty' is too strong a word, I'm going by the video that @stewblack posted somewhere on the second page of this thread, where there's a bit of mild overdrive kicking in with the input gain lower than half-way, but I suppose it will depend on the bass too with higher output basses getting into that territory earlier? It's a good sound! Despite my preference for clean amplifiers, I loved how it warmed up the sound, and from what you say it seems that clean(ish) headroom should not be an issue. Soundwise, I'd prefer the Elf to my BAM200, but I decided to go with the cheaper option (half price!) simply because it's an amplifier that will barely see any action.

Does the Elf get quite warm? I was just using the BAM200 with my guitar earlier, not very loud at all and maybe an hour or so, not more, and it was really warm to the touch. 

Re: One In Ten... you made me wonder "do I know you?" because it's a very new project and we've only played live once!  Then I realised that there was a link on my signature to the FB page and there's a clip or two there from that gig. Thank you for your kind words, although my recollection of that gig was that it was not very good! We barely had 10-12 songs ready at that stage (we only started in November and keyboard player joined in mid december... we got a great percussionist now but after a single rehearsal the lockdown happened, I hope we can go back and get up to speed soon, although we probably won't be gigging in a while. It's a shame, we had a very busy calendar from May onwards through to September. But I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that, we're all on the same boat there!

[BillyBass]

24 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

Maybe 'dirty' is too strong a word, I'm going by the video that @stewblack posted somewhere on the second page of this thread, where there's a bit of mild overdrive kicking in with the input gain lower than half-way, but I suppose it will depend on the bass too with higher output basses getting into that territory earlier? It's a good sound! Despite my preference for clean amplifiers, I loved how it warmed up the sound, and from what you say it seems that clean(ish) headroom should not be an issue. Soundwise, I'd prefer the Elf to my BAM200, but I decided to go with the cheaper option (half price!) simply because it's an amplifier that will barely see any action.

Does the Elf get quite warm? I was just using the BAM200 with my guitar earlier, not very loud at all and maybe an hour or so, not more, and it was really warm to the touch. 

Re: One In Ten... you made me wonder "do I know you?" because it's a very new project and we've only played live once!  Then I realised that there was a link on my signature to the FB page and there's a clip or two there from that gig. Thank you for your kind words, although my recollection of that gig was that it was not very good! We barely had 10-12 songs ready at that stage (we only started in November and keyboard player joined in mid december... we got a great percussionist now but after a single rehearsal the lockdown happened, I hope we can go back and get up to speed soon, although we probably won't be gigging in a while. It's a shame, we had a very busy calendar from May onwards through to September. But I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that, we're all on the same boat there!

My experience with the Elf is as part of a practice rig on top of a Barefaced one10, not gigging.  Most of the time I keep the gain at about 2 o'clock and it is clean.  I rarely play anything but passive Fenders through it so perhaps makes a difference.  I'll experiment a bit with it tomorrow.  

I don't often push the Elf but when I have done it has got quite warm.  Not much in the way of heat sinks of course.  The fan noise is a constant, even when using headphones or a tuner.

And yes, I did check the links at the bottom of your page🙂.  It's a great song and the bass just holds it all together.

[Ögon]

12 hours ago, mcnach said:

I think the BAM200 is a great backup amplifier, something you can take anywhere easily and will probably do a decent job, but it would not be my main amplifier. The LM250, however, I'd be quite happy owning that as my only amplifier. Spend a little time getting to understand how the VLE and VPF filters work and interact, and you'll be amazed how easy it can go from old school to modern crystal clear tones to dub to... anything you want. I'm a fan of the Little Mark amplifiers, but I promise I don't get commission

edit: I'm not sure where you are, but if you happen to be near Edinburgh let me know and I'll let you try the BAM200, LMIII (which is not the same, but it's meant to be close enough in sound to the LM250) and a Mesa D800+ while we're at it. 

 

Thanks  Sadly, i do not live in UK, i live in Netherlands and i'm actually Dutch. Thanks for the offer though. 

Do you have any experience or thoughts on the Eden TN226 or Eden amps soundwise? It seems like a nice amp.

I asked the questions about the TC E and TE on some other forums too and looked for some topics. It's interesting how most people say that the TC amp are a bit... meh.. okay. It seems most people are exited about TC E Bam200 amp because of the size and price and do not have a strong passion for those amps tonewise.. (if that makes sence.) i'm still wondering if the BQ or BH series sound any different though. 

[Ögon]

10 hours ago, BillyBass said:

My experience with the Elf is as part of a practice rig on top of a Barefaced one10, not gigging.  Most of the time I keep the gain at about 2 o'clock and it is clean.  I rarely play anything but passive Fenders through it so perhaps makes a difference.  I'll experiment a bit with it tomorrow.  

I don't often push the Elf but when I have done it has got quite warm.  Not much in the way of heat sinks of course.  The fan noise is a constant, even when using headphones or a tuner.

And yes, I did check the links at the bottom of your page🙂.  It's a great song and the bass just holds it all together.

I have no experience with playing through a 1x10 speaker, only played through a 1x12 and 1x15. How is the bass/low end response with the Trace Elliot and the 1x10? Can it fill a stage or is it just okay for hearing yourself?

Do you use a Precision? I use a Precision too... Would love to hear sound examples with a P..

[mcnach]

14 hours ago, BillyBass said:

My experience with the Elf is as part of a practice rig on top of a Barefaced one10, not gigging.  Most of the time I keep the gain at about 2 o'clock and it is clean.  I rarely play anything but passive Fenders through it so perhaps makes a difference.  I'll experiment a bit with it tomorrow.  

I don't often push the Elf but when I have done it has got quite warm.  Not much in the way of heat sinks of course.  The fan noise is a constant, even when using headphones or a tuner.

And yes, I did check the links at the bottom of your page🙂.  It's a great song and the bass just holds it all together.

 

Yeah, with this small size I guess the whole chassis *is* a heatsink  

Hmmm, Elf + One10, that sounds like a great combination (I gig with Two10 cabs usually). 

 

[mcnach]

4 hours ago, Ögon89 said:

Thanks  Sadly, i do not live in UK, i live in Netherlands and i'm actually Dutch. Thanks for the offer though. 

Do you have any experience or thoughts on the Eden TN226 or Eden amps soundwise? It seems like a nice amp.

I asked the questions about the TC E and TE on some other forums too and looked for some topics. It's interesting how most people say that the TC amp are a bit... meh.. okay. It seems most people are exited about TC E Bam200 amp because of the size and price and do not have a strong passion for those amps tonewise.. (if that makes sence.) i'm still wondering if the BQ or BH series sound any different though. 

 

Ah, yeah, it's a bit of a trip from where you are

 

Indeed, I think the BAM200's USP is definitely the size and price. It doesn't sound bad at all, it's just not the most exciting amplifier but it never tried to be. It's quite decent, 'though. Yes, it's a bit 'meh' compared to a 'full fat' amplifier but it's not bad at all and you can simply use it as a clean amplifier while using a separate small preamp to provide your favourite 'colour', and still be a smaller package than any other normal amplifier. I was experimenting a little last night with the Joyo American Sound in front of the BAM200 with bass, using the EQ and a little touch of overdrive on the Joyo pedal and it sounded mighty.

From the amps you mentioned, my heart is on the MarkBass LM250 because to me that's a proper amplifier (and it's still compact, no doubt about it, just not 'pocket sized') and it's got a complete set of features... and I love those VLE/VPF controls.

The TCE BQ series is not very different from the BAM200 in terms of the basic sound, I think, but they add other features so they may be a bit more capable. I have also used a BH500 that a friend used to have. Frankly, if you're not going to use the Toneprint features, I'd stay with the others, although it's nice to have the tuner built-in. If you like the TC, and you don't need super small, perhaps you could find a used RH450? It's about the same size as the BQ, more or less, and it's a clear winner in terms of features. I had one and I didn't love it as much as other amplifiers I had, but it was not a bad amplifier and look at what you get: 3 programmable presets, a very capable yet easy to use compressor (one knob!), built-in tuner, programmable EQ points, 'tube tone' control (when turned high up I didn't like it very much, but it was cool for lower gain settings)... 

I think the LM250 sounds better, but it's just my personal preference. In terms of features, the RH450 is hard to beat. 

 I have absolutely no experience of Eden, I'm afraid, so I can't write another page about them  

[mcnach]

4 hours ago, Ögon89 said:

I have no experience with playing through a 1x10 speaker, only played through a 1x12 and 1x15. How is the bass/low end response with the Trace Elliot and the 1x10? Can it fill a stage or is it just okay for hearing yourself?

Do you use a Precision? I use a Precision too... Would love to hear sound examples with a P..

 

I don't know about the Trace Elliot, but 1x10 cabs tend to be on the small side and not give you a lot of oomph although some can work as a stage monitor. Personally the smallest I've used has been 1x12 cabs. The smallest was actually a MarkBass CMD121P combo. The cabinet is very small and a lot of it is taken up by the amplifier, yet it is surprisingly powerful, so some 1x10 cabs should work. There are many fans of the Barefaced One10 so it clearly works for some, maybe the TE does too. It'll depend on how loud the stage sound is. I always like to have quieter stages, but it's not always possible when you share stage with another 6-9 people  For that reason the smallest I use these days is a 2x10: it's only marginally more hassle to carry than the single 1x12 I was using before (TKS S112) and it works well. When I can I still like to use two, beyond volume you get a kind of 'presence' that's hard to get with smaller cabs, without needing to be loud. 

I use a Precision often (well, a Schecter P/J or a Sandberg P/MM, but usually just on the P pickup alone) as well as a Stingray. Unfortunately I cannot really record the sound from the speaker other than with a little Zoom H2 recorder which will not make it justice. I can record the DI... if I finish tidying up (I moved house recently) and connect my USB interface etc again. I make no promises, I have lots to do and garden/barbecue seem to take priority these days  but I really want to be able to record again soon as my main band's only action these days is through sharing recorded ideas (it's an originals band) and I can't contribute... This weekend looks like rain, maybe I'll be able to get my stuff out and set it up. But it would be purely DI into a Focusrite Solo into Reaper, perhaps using the Joyo American Sound too, which sounds ok in the mix but it's not as good as what I get from my speakers. 

edit: doh! I also have a Squier Precision for a more 'precisiony' sound (the Schecter and the Sandberg are Precisionesque but they have their own thing going on... the Schecter Model T has active EMG pickups and the P is a bit closer to the bridge than usual, and the Sandberg VM4 has the P in reverse orientation... The Squier has a Fender Original pickup right now -it's waiting for me to have time and install a passive EMG GZR- and that gives a more 'classic' Precision sound.

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by mcnach

[BillyBass]

3 hours ago, mcnach said:

Hmmm, Elf + One10, that sounds like a great combination (I gig with Two10 cabs usually). 

It works very well.  Judging by Internet forums, it seems to be a common pairing; perfect for home but also small venues, coffee houses etc.  A few people pair it with a second one10, I can see myself buying a Barefaced Two10 to stick underneath, when I need to fill a larger space with sound; I like the idea of a modular rig.

 

7 hours ago, Ögon89 said:

I have no experience with playing through a 1x10 speaker, only played through a 1x12 and 1x15. How is the bass/low end response with the Trace Elliot and the 1x10? Can it fill a stage or is it just okay for hearing yourself?

Do you use a Precision? I use a Precision too... Would love to hear sound examples with a P..

@mcnach answered this so I won't repeat what he said.  But yes, I have a P bass with flats and if I wasn't such a dinosaur I would post some recordings for you.  I am hopeless with this sort of thing.

[machinehead]

6 hours ago, BillyBass said:

It works very well.  Judging by Internet forums, it seems to be a common pairing; perfect for home but also small venues, coffee houses etc.  A few people pair it with a second one10, I can see myself buying a Barefaced Two10 to stick underneath, when I need to fill a larger space with sound; I like the idea of a modular rig.

 

@mcnach answered this so I won't repeat what he said.  But yes, I have a P bass with flats and if I wasn't such a dinosaur I would post some recordings for you.  I am hopeless with this sort of thing.

A pair of one10s will be loud enough for any gig.  If you need louder, you should go through the PA.

Frank.

[mcnach]

12 hours ago, machinehead said:

A pair of one10s will be loud enough for any gig.  If you need louder, you should go through the PA.

Frank.

 

Ideally yes, but not every gig venue has a suitable PA in place and not every band has a big enough PA for those situations. It's not often that I *need* a pair of Two10 cabs, but I've played enough where I would have struggled without. Having said that, a lot of people never find themselves in that situation, but many are so you can't generalise and say that what works for one person should work for every one. In addition, it's not just the volume. I get a better balanced stage sound with a couple of Two10, I guess the minitower allows the bass sound to be better distributed on stage without needing to turn up to compensate. 

I've used a single Two10 in a small bar (Glasgow's Clutha 2) in an 8-piece ska band without PA support and while it was not earth-shattering it did reasonably well (two would have been better though). Those cabs (One10, Two10 etc) are really good.