Help please with choice of bass cabinet

[Chris Royle]

Good evening all. Some advice and experience please.

I have a VOX AC50 amp (a 50W valve amp ca. 1965 and still going strong) that I connect to an ex disco 18" speaker cabinet that itself must be around 30 years old. It's bulky and quite heavy, so I have been looking at modern replacement bass cabinets. By way of explanation, I played in a group / band in the 60s and 70s before work, moving house and family put a stop to all that. So, I come from a generation for whom size mattered (at least for bass amps and speakers).  My ideal then was a cabinet with 2 x 18" Goodmans speakers.  I never did part with my bass (a sunburst Fender Precision) but never really got into playing again until recently.

Fast forward 40 years and I am now in my early 70s and have recently joined a local band. I am using the set up described above but I really would like to replace the cabinet with something smaller and lighter without sacrificing quality and the ability to handle low bass notes without distortion.

Looking at what's on offer today, I am astonished at speakers of 10" and 12" claiming to handle 200W and more. Is this really true?

Any recommendations, experiences and advice gratefully received. Markbass is one make that has been recommended. Any comments?

Thanks in advance and best wishes to all.

Chris

btw I do not expect to play in any venues bigger than local pubs and clubs

[Muzz]

You'll be amazed, Chris: my 2x12" is rated to 1200w, and is easily loud enough to cope with the loudest band I'd play with.

Given your nicely vintage gear (there's folk on here who would kill for an AC50 and a 60s Precision 🙂), I'd steer clear of cabs with tweeters as I doubt you'll be after cutting highs and too much zing.

The good news (well, it's all good news, really) is that there's a wide range of cabs available which are very light and will do what you want. What sort of band are you playing in? Do you have a PA you will go into, or just your amp and cab? Bottom line: how loud are you looking to be?

Off the top of my head I don't know what ohmage the AC50 likes, that'll be important to match as it's a valve amp. 

I use a 300w (non-valve) head with a Barefaced cab (the 1200w rated one I mentioned) and it can go ridiculously loud, so unless you don't have PA support and you want to remove plaster from walls, your AC50 should be enough with a modern efficient cab.

If you can, a visit to a guitar shop and take your AC50 with you to hear some cabs to get a feel for different makes/models would tell you quite a lot.

[Len_derby]

Welcome Chris.

Yes, there are several manufacturers that offer small, light-weight cabinets that can handle 200w and more, and are loud and rich in sound. I use Barefaced but others are available.  If you are anywhere near Derby you're very welcome to come and try. Alternatively, I'm sure there'll be a friendly Basschatter near you who'll do the same.

 

[DoubleOhStephan]

Another Barefaced user here (Retro Two10). Highly recommended, very light, very loud 😁

[taunton-hobbit]

I use Barefaced (Dubsters, which have ceased production)

......... Like them a lot ............

😎

[scrumpymike]

Cripes - yet another Barefaced user checking in!  I use a couple of Super Compact Gen 3 cabs - each is 8ohms, of compact size, weighs 11kg, will handle 600 'clean' watts, and has a single high-performance 12" driver.  I also have the BF Two10 that has the 'retro' voicing - 4ohms, 14kg, up to 500w.  The minimum recommended wattage for these two cabs is 150 and 100 respectively, so I'm not sure how they would work with your AC50 - although I would guess you should be fine as the amp is a valver and the drivers BF use are highly efficient.  These cabs typically come up FS on here at £400-£500.  BCH also a nice, as-new Aguilar cab on here at the moment - which I mention because I know him and I know it's right.

[scrumpymike]

14 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Buy British. Buy Barefaced.

Alex at BF will give you proper advice re pairing with your AC50 - and doubtless let you try his demo cabs if you're anywhere near Brighton.  (If you're anywhere near Taunton, you can try mine.)

[DoubleOhStephan]

Just an FYI, there's a couple of BF cabs fs on Facebook atm 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/UKBassgear/permalink/1533135776819752/?sale_post_id=1533135776819752

[Lozz196]

Assuming that the 1x18 you have is a more vintage sounding than modern cab then Markbass cabs may be worth looking at. They have a top end roll off so sound nice and warm in the mix.

As above Barefaced are def worth considering. They do have a much clearer, modern sound, well aside from their Retro range that is.

And lastly the Ashdown RM cabs are worth a look. They’re nice and portable but sound great, are light and very reasonably priced too.

[skankdelvar]

@Chris Royle

AFAIK most if not all AC50's were rated at 8/16 ohms impedance. If that's the case with your amp you must ensure that any cab or combination of cabs that you try out will show the amp a minimum of 8 ohms. Pairing it with a load of less than 8 ohms (e.g a 4 ohm cab) could potentially blow the output transformer. Expensive fix.

How can you ascertain the amp's impedance range? Many AC50's have an impedance selector on the back panel. Earlier examples didn't have this selector but check the back panel and there should be an indication of the amp's impedance. Here's one example of the impedance selector on an AC50:

... and here's another which uses a bridging pin instead of a switch:

 

... and here's an example where there's no selector, just a choice of two output sockets at the relevant values:

[Dan Dare]

As others suggest, drive unit technology has changed considerably since you got your rig and good quality modern 10 and 12 inch drivers can easily handle 200w. Modern bass amps are much more powerful than those of yore - power is cheap these days, due to the development of the class D amp modules that so many manufacturers use. If you are using a 50w amp, you do need efficient speakers to get the best out of it. A lot of modern high power drive units are not particularly efficient, compared with older designs, so you need to try some with your amp to see if it will drive them adequately. I wouldn't buy anything without doing that first.

You might also think about selling your amp (you may be surprised how much it is worth if in good shape - decent vintage valve amps are quite sought after) and getting something newer. It will be a lot lighter and easier to carry around. If you like a vintage sound (your rig suggests you do), I agree Markbass is worth investigating, but there are a number of other brands that are equally good. A trip to a decent shop to audition alternatives looks to be in order.

If you intend to keep the Vox, I would certainly suggest you have a tech' look it over before using it in anger if it hasn't been used for several decades. Older capacitors can deteriorate and the valves may not be giving of their best by now.

[peteb]

Other cabs than Barefaced are available (as technically good as they are) …!

Personally, I prefer Bergantino, which sound great to me. However, you are spoilt for choice these days with plenty of high spec cabs available from various companies. I would suggest giving Bass Direct a call – I’m sure that Mark & co will be able to find something suitable for your needs…

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Ashdown RM cabs 

That’s what I was thinking, but couldn’t remember the name. 

[tauzero]

You could build your own...

[Chris Royle]

Chaps

Many many thanks for this really useful information. What a tremendous resource.

What sort of music? We are a guitar, bass, tenor sax and drums combo playing (so far) some rock, and a bit of pop. We have no huge aspirations outside of avoiding being thrown or  heckled off stage! 😧

Build my own cab? Been there, done that several times in the dim and distant past...good fun then, but looking for an easier life now.

Thanks once again everybody. I'll try and post my experiences as time goes on.

Keep plucking! 😁

[Chienmortbb]

3 hours ago, Chris Royle said:

Chaps

Many many thanks for this really useful information. What a tremendous resource.

What sort of music? We are a guitar, bass, tenor sax and drums combo playing (so far) some rock, and a bit of pop. We have no huge aspirations outside of avoiding being thrown or  heckled off stage! 😧

Build my own cab? Been there, done that several times in the dim and distant past...good fun then, but looking for an easier life now.

Thanks once again everybody. I'll try and post my experiences as time goes on.

Keep plucking! 😁

Stevie of this parish has a flatpack CNC 1x12 cabinet that you could use without a tweeter. It suits most of the modern 12" high excursion  drivers and without the tweeter and crossover would come in at sub 13Kg. It is a nice easy build and you can see the prototype being assembled by clicking the picture below. Check the FAQ on page 22, after the  pictures of the cab being assembled. He was looking fo ten buyers and has got them but may be persuaded to add to the order. If is really nice as is and Phil Star has been gigging with his cabs without tweeters for about 3 years.

 

[Phil Starr]

Hi Chris, first of all there is no problem with the power handling you are seeing if they are in the 150-300W range. back in the day the coils in speakers were wound onto paper formers and stuck down with any old glue. Now formers are high temperature plastics and other materials and will handle high temperatures without deforming, catching fire or the glue melting. There's a lot more attention paid to keeping the coils cooler too. 

you need to decide if you want to keep using your valve amp, it's a lovely desirable thing but 50W isn't much by todays standards and you'll need an efficient speaker to go with it. Most bass speakers today are designed with a 3-500W amp in mind so many of them aren't as loud, watt for watt. Old cabs tend to be better than 100dB for one watt, many modern cabs are only around the 96db mark. If you want to go on using the Vox then you should stick to something that gives at least 100db/W.

The main thing though is to listen to the speakers before you buy. They aren't likely to sound at all like your old speakers and the difference may be a shock or a revelation, and they won't all sound the same by a long way. 

Do you have a budget in mind? Light loud and cheap don't all come together. The Barefaced that so many people are recommending are startlingly light but surprisingly expensive as a result. No point is us recommending a Rolls Royce if you are in VW Polo territory. How do you feel about new v's used?

 

[TheGreek]

Hey @Chris Royle

Not sure whereabouts you are but you would certainly benefit from attending your nearest bass bash.

Check the "Events" thread. You'll be able to try a range of gear which you won't find in your local shop (if you have one). You'll be able to make your own mind up....actually, probably not..there is so much choice that finding the gear you want (against what you thought you wanted) is a proper minefield but at least you have the opportunity to make your own decision.

 

[jezzaboy]

Hi Chris.

Whereabouts in the country are you? Most of us have various amps and cabs kicking about and I`m sure that someone will be happy to invite you over so you can hear what is available. I`m far to young to know the gear you are using  but bass gear has moved on so much in the years I have been playing and you may find that for a few hundred coins of the Realm, you can get some nice gear that will blow yer socks off!

[Chris Royle]

Once again, thanks. So much knowledge, so much experience on tap.

Is it time to retire the AC50.....maybe. For younger readers, VOX, along with Marshall and to a much lesser extent were the amps to have in the 60s. VOX also produced the Continental organ and a short lived range of guitars. The AC50 even has its own website http://www.voxac50.org.uk/

Here's a couple of photos.

In answer to where am I, I live in Richmond, Surrey, not far from the much missed Chandler guitar shop.

Very best wishes and thanks once again.

Chris

 

[skankdelvar]

4 hours ago, Chris Royle said:

Is it time to retire the AC50

I'd say not, because that's a minty clean, lovely old AC50 that deserves to be taken out of an evening and I'm an old fart who happily gigged a 50w Marshall Mk2 against an AC30, a Musicman HD130 and a loud drummer.

There's also a cheap and dirty approach to this issue (with which other forumites might disagree).

At the time of posting one can secure an Ashdown Toneman Deep 1x15 cab off Thomann for £129 inc shipping and a Celestion BN15-300S NEO-8OHM neodymium lightweight speaker from Watford Valves for a ludicrously cheap £100 inc shipping. One could theoretically whip out the stock Ashdown speaker and replace it with the Celestion Neo. Bingo, a fairly lightweight 1x15 8-ohm cab for £230. Unscrew the Ashdown logo, pair it up with the AC50 and see how it sounds.

Caveat 1: I've not used a BN-15 Neo and I've no idea of their reputation. Also, it's sensitivity is only 95dB. Another option would be a Jensen Smooth Bass BS 15N/350A from Hot Rox for £149 inc shipping. At a nominal 98.7dB it would be a more efficient speaker than the Celestion. Haven't used one of those either. Also, one would need to check the speaker aperture dimensions, etc for precise fit. NB, neo speakers have fantastically powerful magnets so observe any cautionary guidance or look it up on't web.

Caveat 2: Some people here might think there'd a need to re-tune the cab ports to the new speaker. I wouldn't know.

Edited April 27, 2019 by skankdelvar

[lownote]

As you're close to London I'd take myself to the Bass Gallery in Camden, they have a wide range of heads and cabs, and may have a Barefaced demonstrator.

As someone mentioned modern cabs vary widely in 'colour'.  Your old cabs probably won't have had enough clarity to notice.  But a Markbass has a very different sound to a Barefaced One 10 which is different to a Retro Two10 - and doubtless many other makes, all different.  I would strongly recommend you listen to your head through various speakers before deciding. And other heads. 

Again as others have said, if you like old school Markbass heads coupled with their own cabs provide a fantastic sound IMHO.  For a sample, here's Michael League at a Markbass masterclass. 

As to power, weight, cost.  A Barefaced One10 weighs 7 Kg and will take 500 watts - but costs up to £400. Also Barefaced Tolex peels.

Back to my opening point really.

   

Edited April 27, 2019 by lownote12

[Reggaebass]

1 hour ago, lownote12 said:

For a sample, here's Michael League at a Markbass masterclass. 

Great vid , really like that groove at 21.15 🙂

[taunton-hobbit]

2 hours ago, lownote12 said:

Also Barefaced Tolex peels.

In my humble opinion, all bluddy tolex peels - Barefaced original rough black spray finish is epic!

😎

[lownote]

IMHE not all.  I bought a TC BC 210 cab once sight unseen and it came from a  smoking home. I scrubbed that mf with every detergent I could find in the house and the local auto shop, and whiter spirit, and meths, hosed it with a hose, left it out in the sun and wind for 48 hours, did everything except dumping it in the sea or a Chernobyl, and the tolex (and the smell) just grinned coyly at me and kept right on going.  My Barf faced Two10 was fanned with phoenix feathers and coddled and cuddled and peeled off quicker than my first girlfriend.