Sandbergs - post your thoughts

[dmccombe7]

Don't see anything about pick up selection on the configurator page. Guess you would need to contact Sandberg for a price change before ordering.

Must admit that surprised me a bit. Should be on the config page to give people the choice upfront.

Dave

[DoubleOhStephan]

1 minute ago, dmccombe7 said:

Don't see anything about pick up selection on the configurator page. Guess you would need to contact Sandberg for a price change before ordering.

Must admit that surprised me a bit. Should be on the config page to give people the choice upfront.

Dave

I'm not sure that the configurator has every single option available and you can't buy directly though it, you need to go to a distributor, with whom you can discuss your specific requirements before placing your order. 

[Al Krow]

11 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Don't see anything about pick up selection on the configurator page. Guess you would need to contact Sandberg for a price change before ordering.

Must admit that surprised me a bit. Should be on the config page to give people the choice upfront.

Dave

+1^^ The electronics would be the most important 'option' for me: so if Berg are indeed facilitating getting electronics that you want (which is great) being able to see at a glance what the choices and options on the configurator are would be very useful. 

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow to roughly quote you and say I hate sounding like a broken record - (and no I don’t expect my posts to be doted upon) but I have said and others have said multiple times I am pretty sure there is no upcharge for Sandberg in house be they old of Black labels - there is an upcharge for Haüssel’s.

Get your bass configured, copy paste the identifier generated - email Sandberg - and make any tweaks and and you get your answer, or to confirm if there is an upcharge, just email them.

It’s pretty simple to get an answer, then most of the debate falls away

[DoubleOhStephan]

Think you're being a little harsh tbh. 

The Sandberg configurator is one of the, if not the, best configuration sites online. It gives you literally thousands or options using the stock electronics, if you're serious about buying a bass, a quick email to a distributor will let you know the additional cost.

Don't forget, software development is very expensive, even adding a seemingly simple option can work out to be days, if not weeks of work, depending on how many parts of the site the change touches. 

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, StevieE said:

Think you're being a little harsh tbh. 

The Sandberg configurator is one of the, if not the, best configuration sites online. It gives you literally thousands or options using the stock electronics, if you're serious about buying a bass, a quick email to a distributor will let you know the additional cost.

Don't forget, software development is very expensive, even adding a seemingly simple option can work out to be days, if not weeks of work, depending on how many parts of the site the change touches. 

I'm sure you're correct, but I don't quite follow why adding e.g. alternative pups should be a lot of work on a website? It could be as simple as a note saying 'Black Labels, no additional cost', 'Haüssel’s +£100'; particularly if you can't actually order off the site and it's for information purposes only?

But maybe there's a commercial reason why Berg don't want to advertise that alternative pups are an option, although I can't immediately think why!

[dmccombe7]

Agree its certainly one of the best bits of software for a bass i've seen. Gives you a great idea of how your bass will look before ordering.

I bought mine from Classic and Cool Guitars which Chris had spec'd as far as i know so i was originally looking at the Limelight basses but the VM4 just really caught my eye. I did use the configurator but at that time i wasn't aware of pick up alternatives and to be honest never really gave it a 2nd thought. The ones i have tried have all been the large single oles so must have been either Sandberg's or Delanos and i was happy with the tone from them. 

I don't think i would bother upgrading. I'm happy with mine the way it is.

Dave

 

[dmccombe7]

7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I'm sure you're correct, but I don't quite follow why adding e.g. alternative pups should be a lot of work on a website? It could be as simple as a note saying 'Black Labels, no additional cost', 'Haüssel’s +£100'; particularly if you can't actually order off the site and it's for information purposes only?

But maybe there's a commercial reason why Berg don't want to advertise that alternative pups are an option, although I can't immediately think why!

Maybe they just haven't got round to it yet. Are the Black Labels quite a new design for them ?

When i bought my Overwater custom fretless 6er they fitted Armstrong pick ups and John East pre-amps. It wasn't until i spoke with Chris that he said other pick-ups and pre-amps can be fitted if that's what i want. Many manufacturers don't seem to advertise their other options unless you are serious about buying and specifically ask for something.

Dave 

[Cuzzie]

Agree with @StevieE there are actually close to 1 million different options if you break it all down, Sandberg site has been hacked before and to get that back up and running was a mission.

No harm in a bit of leg work from the punter - especially as the maker has laid a platform for options, which most companies do not do

[DoubleOhStephan]

10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I'm sure you're correct, but I don't quite follow why adding e.g. alternative pups should be a lot of work on a website? It could be as simple as a note saying 'Black Labels, no additional cost', 'Haüssel’s +£100'; particularly if you can't actually order off the site and it's for information purposes only?

But maybe there's a commercial reason why Berg don't want to advertise that alternative pups are an option, although I can't immediately think why!

In terms of the costs, there would be more to it than just adding a note due to the code that's generated by the configurator. Therefore, if a different pup type is selected, that change would need to be reflected along the whole configuration process which means the change potentially touches all the stages. With software dev, the more things a change affects, the higher the risk of something going wrong (introducing a bug etc) so the longer it takes to write and test the code. 

I assume that this has been looked at by the Sandberg team and wouldn't be surprised to see it introduced at some point, it's probably just not on the development timeline at the moment. I believe they're building a new "standard" website, so guess all the software dev budget is tied up in that project. 

[dmccombe7]

41 minutes ago, StevieE said:

In terms of the costs, there would be more to it than just adding a note due to the code that's generated by the configurator. Therefore, if a different pup type is selected, that change would need to be reflected along the whole configuration process which means the change potentially touches all the stages. With software dev, the more things a change affects, the higher the risk of something going wrong (introducing a bug etc) so the longer it takes to write and test the code. 

I assume that this has been looked at by the Sandberg team and wouldn't be surprised to see it introduced at some point, it's probably just not on the development timeline at the moment. I believe they're building a new "standard" website, so guess all the software dev budget is tied up in that project. 

They've been ahead of the game with most things so that all makes sense to me. It takes a bit of time to get a safe site up and running. Making the new pick-ups was probably the easier part.

The configurator is a nice bit of fun if you aren't buying to see what can be done on a bass of your choosing. It's also a great starting point for anyone thinking of getting their ideas down on paper

All credit to Sandberg

Dave

Edited May 10, 2019 by dmccombe7

[Cuzzie]

I forgot to say that Black labels have been since about 2015 I think

[dmccombe7]

Should have given that option on the configurator. Its another way of making a few extra quid on a bass altho maybe not from me cause i'm a happy bunny 

Now that the strings have lost the hi-end rasp they are sounding quite nice. Bass has a nice mid sound to it. I'm liking mine more every day i play it which is every day of course.

Dave

[Opticaleye]

I think that the configurator is there to display aesthetics  more than to include every option (there's no Umbo for instance!).

When the range of custom options is so varied then choices have to be made and one pickup looks much like another of the same shape.

[krispn]

So I'd agree with @Al Krow that Delano's can sound a bit sterile to my ear too and wouldn't be my choice of bass tone either. @Al Krow shared a video of his band playing (the 'Livin' On A Prayer' cover from way back) and the bass tone was a tad sterile/MiDi like and I'm guessing that was a combination of straight DI and those pick ups and it didn't sound there was any 'post eq' or 'active eq' engaged on that video Al?

I've also played other Sandberg basses with other pick-ups which I have preferred over Delano's - if the fit is right a change of pick up (and pre amp if desired) isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme especially if the bass and new pick ups/pre is picked up used. 

@mcnach posted a very sensible approach to trying and then ordering a Sandberg bass  - have a pretty good idea of what you like, try some models out at a dealer if possible (make the trip to one if it means that much to get it as perfect as possible), note the models and get the shop/dealer to find out the spec and get your order made! Fender don't offer that, Gibson don't offer that. Maybe G&L and Sandberg are the two companies who spring to mind who do? (Don't add a list I'm not buying a new bass any time soon!)

I do find it a wee bit of a stretch that someone as diligent as @Al Krow who keenly researches other manufacturers gear to the nth degree can't email a company as accessible as Sandberg and ask what the up charge, if any, is on a set of black labels (or any other offerings) whacked into a California VT5 would be but can wax lyrical on "chip set used", "frequency response of", "Xover point", "mA draw" etc. on a whole bunch of other gear. Maybe he's just cage rattling for sport

However I will also agree with Al that the 'pick up option' would be really help if it listed the (additional) charges for other pick up brands V's in house but again a phone call/email could have that info in minutes/days.

 

[Al Krow]

Yup straight DI no pre / post EQ. Can't recall whether the bass was being played actively or passively now.

I'm not about to order a Berg, and therefore definitely not minded to contact them, because (i) I'm very happy with my existing basses and (ii) I don't want to pay custom shop prices to get the feature set on a Berg I'd like! Simples.

But I'm also surprised that none of the Berg aficionados know what the cost of a decent VM5 or VT5 California Berg would be with Haussel pups and a decent 3 band EQ - as this might be of interest to others; but for now that can remain a mystery - I'm sure we will all live! 😀

Q for the OP: are the 'Average White Band' the best ever Scottish rock group?

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

Well a 3 band EQ is not essential, The cost entirely depends on what finish, hardware etc so there will be vastly different costings and it’s really easy for someone to find out exactly themselves rather than ball parks

[Cuzzie]

But to answer your question likely between £1 and £3.5k brand new

[Opticaleye]

6 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 I don't want to pay custom shop prices to get the feature set on a Berg I'd like! Simples.

I've only custom ordered one Sandberg but I didn't pay a "Custom shop price" at all  The configurator said a particular price and it was discounted by Bass Direct to a price equivalent to the regular stock. I personally think Sandbergs are incredible value for the quality.

Not all dealers discount the regular stock either (mentioning no names).

[mcnach]

8 hours ago, Al Krow said:

How much more would a customised Berg bass cost in comparison to an equivalent 'stock' model eg if you wanted black label pups rather than stock Delanos? 

Wasn't clear to me from the 'configurator' that you could actually choose electronics in that way, but I may have missed something. 

 

I could not find any of those options on the configurator, but it also says that you need to contact a distributor to order, so I figured the configurator was just a way to set most specs of the 'build', and then you talk to the distributor to sort out the rest.

When I went to order mine, through Guitar Guitar, I did exactly that. We discussed a few options and combinations not available in their configurator, they spoke to Sandberg who gave them a quote, and Guitar Guitar went through the options with me. Then I chose, and placed the order based on one of the configurations we discussed. I went with their standard pickups and preamp as I could not say I have a definite preference, so I'll just see how they work for me. If I feel I prefer another preamp or pickups, I have a few ideas (and even some pickups and preamps in my drawer to try).

Mine ended up just been a different cosmetic combination from what the configurator offered, and specifiying a neck profile like another particular Sandberg I tried in the shop. That did not increase the cost. I don't know how much they'd charge for different pickups.

 

[DoubleOhStephan]

On the Delano vs Sandberg stock debate, I've got a Classic with Delano soapbars (3 band sandberg preamp) and a Basic Ken Taylor with Sandberg humbuckers (also 3 band sandberg preamp) run through an Aguilar Th350 & Barefaced Two10. 

The Delanos sound very modern (hifi I suppose), I can get a lovely clean tone with clarity through bass, mids and highs but it's really easy to dial in some growl or thump, depending on what takes your fancy. I personally find them full of personality, particularly down in the low range. I played her mainly in a nusoul originals band and she was absolutely perfect for that. 

The Basic is much more difficult to describe. Because of the coil split it is has more versatility than the Classic, but to my ear still has a modern tone, but you can play around all day and find loads of lovely variety. Tbh, it's has too much choice for me, I can never remember how to get a particular tone 😂 Because of that I didn't tend to use the Basic in a band situation. I think I used her twice, both times for pub rock covers and she sounded bang on. 

Both basses sound huge in the mix but are quite specialised I suppose, they really suit modern styles of music, but for anything older (70s), they both just sounded wrong. 

Because of that I also got a passive TT, but I haven't had chance to play that in anger as am not in a band atm. At home levels though it is a beautiful, proper vintage jazz tones so I'm sure it'll be grand. 

[mcnach]

8 hours ago, Al Krow said:

+1^^ The electronics would be the most important 'option' for me: so if Berg are indeed facilitating getting electronics that you want (which is great) being able to see at a glance what the choices and options on the configurator are would be very useful. 

 

I guess (and that's what it is: a guess) that the configurator gives you the options that are easier for them to price, as they relate to the work THEY do directly.

They'll also do any other colour you like, not just those shown in the configurator.

I liked how Maruszczyk used to do it. They used a form where there's a place for every conceivable detail and then you can provide extra info (images, designs...), and then they'd give you a price. They have a number of preferred pickups, but when I discussed with them using other entirely different ones they were ok with it, they just needed to know which ones and they'd get back to me once they find out where they can get them from and for how much... same with hardware). They now have a new online configurator much like the Sandberg one, but I haven't really tried it so I don't know if they allow you to detail everything there or you still need to add things separately.

 

[mcnach]

54 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

But I'm also surprised that none of the Berg aficionados know what the cost of a decent VM5 or VT5 California Berg would be with Haussel pups and a decent 3 band EQ - as this might be of interest to others; but for now that can remain a mystery - I'm sure we will all live! 😀

 

 

 

I'm not a "Sandberg aficionado" in the sense that I'm not that knowledgeable about them... I just know that what I experienced was very nice so I want one

But the pickup issue means very little to me, and I suspect that's the case with some others. If I want a specific pickup, I'll ask for it. I have a very good idea of how much pickups cost, so you can have a pretty good idea of what kind of extra cost you could expect. If you're going to spend £1600-2000 on a bass, whether the pickups you want cost nothing extra or add £50-100 is really not that big of a deal, and if it is... finding the exact answer is just a phone call or email away, so I don't understand your preoccupation. The cost is not going to suddenly double or anything :)

[Al Krow]

£50 to £100 is not a big amount in that context I agree. I had a figure of £300 to £500 in my head for new pups new EQ and fitting. 

[dannybuoy]

Call Bass Direct and ask. I heard there was no upcharge if you wanted Black Labels or Delanos instead of Sandberg pickups.