John Hall?

[skankdelvar]

5 hours ago, drTStingray said:

Does John Hall play bongos on famous cartoons

TBPH I don't know if Mr Hall plays any musical instrument, save that instanced by our brother NikNik.

Leo Fender didn't play guitar yet brought us the Tele, the Strat, the P and the Jazz. Gibson's Ted McCarty didn't play guitar yet brought us the Les Paul, the 335, the Explorer and the Vee.

OTOH, Henry Juskiewicz could play guitar (after a fashion) and he was ultimately responsible for the reviled zoot suit SG, robotuners, the Firebird X and countless other duds. 

It's a funny old world.

Edited May 4, 2019 by skankdelvar

[Bassassin]

Apropos of nothing - apparently Mr Hall is, or at least was, at some point, a bass player. A very long time ago I had correspondence with him which started as hostile and borderline litigious (it stemmed from an innocent inquiry regarding Fakers, on the old Rickenbacker official forum), but actually ended up being disconcertingly cordial. He mentioned his own musical dabblings at some point, I can't remember why.

Regardless, the sum total of his input regarding the design of the 4000 series basses amounts to absolutely sweet bugger-all.

[Ricky 4000]

6 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

Copy/paste from Rick Resource.

 

Re: RIC-Made Treble PUP Bezels Available!

by (sunsetjunk) » Thu May 02, 2019 1:29 pmI have been making the original Treble Bezel since 2010.

(sunsetjunk)

New member

 

Posts: 20

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:16 am

 

 

 

And Rickenbacker have been making the bass it fits since 1960!

I'm no fan of "The Halls of Justice", but I don't think anybody can complain about a manufacturer making an accessory to fit their own bass, and selling it for half the price of the after-market part.

I know which one I'd be buying. 😃

[Doctor J]

I had an entirely cordial exchange with him, also via the forum. I had a small neck issue with a 4003 I had asked about. He contacted me directly and offered to personally inspect it as he was going to be holidaying in Ireland in the not-too-distant future. Top man.

[skankdelvar]

1 hour ago, Ricky 4000 said:

"The Halls of Justice"

Ooh, nice work, Sir.

[kodiakblair]

1 hour ago, Ricky 4000 said:

And Rickenbacker have been making the bass it fits since 1960!

I'm no fan of "The Halls of Justice", but I don't think anybody can complain about a manufacturer making an accessory to fit their own bass, and selling it for half the price of the after-market part.

I know which one I'd be buying. 😃

Think that's what sticks in the fella's craw. For 60 year they didn't think there was a need.

Now it's "Great idea,we'll be having that.Best use the same name too. Aw let's really shaft him and sell ours half price."

[NikNik]

19 hours ago, Meddle said:

Unless we hear this from Frank then Im not buying it. Production of the Tubeampology parts has been dwindling over the last year. The RIC parts are identical. I'm guessing there was a collaboration.

Funny how the dwarf couldn't have collaborated with Jason Lollar...........

[NikNik]

17 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

Copy/paste from Rick Resource.

 

Re: RIC-Made Treble PUP Bezels Available!

by (sunsetjunk) » Thu May 02, 2019 1:29 pm

@Ilan
No, I wasn't contacted by Rickenbacker regarding the use of my "Treble Bezel" name or my designs. This is more a moral than legal issue in this situation.

I have been making the original Treble Bezel since 2010.
First 2 years were CNC machined and Soft touch top coated until I could save up enough money to invest in injection mold tooling.
From 2012 to present they have been injection molded.
My bezels are more expensive, but they are of extremly high quality,the price includes S&H and a life time no questions asked warranty. Any bezel can be returned or exchanged upon request, customer covers return shipping costs, a new/different version ships out quickly after I receive the returned version. No receipt necessary, just the bezel.
Each bezel is inspected, numbered and dated by me.

The black versions are molded out of a 20% Glass Filled Nylon for stiffness and durability.
The chrome plated versions are molded out of ABS and then sent off to be chrome plated, with real metal, NOT vacuum metalized, this creates a brilliant and durable metallic exoskeleton, with some shielding properties.

So basically the Original Treble Bezel offering from TubeAmpology comes is 7 unique versions to give you the cleanest and most unobtrusive asthetic for your desired application.

Chrome Plated in, Standard, Cove or Deluxe.
Black texture in, Standard, Cove or Deluxe.
4001V63/C64 in Standard only, This version comes as a kit, with spacers,and fits the Horseshoe pickups with the cover removed.

There are pictures posted in my store that can be zoomed in on to see the quality of the finish.

http://tubeampology.com/store1/4003-treble-bezels/


Quite frankly, I never thought Rickenbacker would stoop down to Chinese business ethics by copying a product design AND name. As I stated earlier, this is more a moral than legal issue.
I’ve always respected Rickenbacker’s Made in America ethos and Jim Halls efforts to curb fakes/copies. And I have always been proud to support their company by buying and playing their basses, as well as being proud to be able to design and produce a product that I believed would make their basses better for some players. All this while making sure I didn’t copy or infringe on any of rickenbackers designs when designing the Treble Bezel.
And now seeing this offering from them, using the Treble Bezel name and even some of my wording from my website describing it is very disheartening.

(sunsetjunk)

New member

 

Posts: 20

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:16 am

 

 

 

Well, well, well.

[NikNik]

11 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

And Rickenbacker have been making the bass it fits since 1960!

I'm no fan of "The Halls of Justice", but I don't think anybody can complain about a manufacturer making an accessory to fit their own bass, and selling it for half the price of the after-market part.

I know which one I'd be buying. 😃

The irony is that they've copied something.

Furthermore, some of the guys on RRF aren't happy about it, either.

Edited May 5, 2019 by NikNik
Additions

[NikNik]

16 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

TBPH I don't know if Mr Hall plays any musical instrument, save that instanced by our brother NikNik.

Leo Fender didn't play guitar yet brought us the Tele, the Strat, the P and the Jazz. Gibson's Ted McCarty didn't play guitar yet brought us the Les Paul, the 335, the Explorer and the Vee.

OTOH, Henry Juskiewicz could play guitar (after a fashion) and he was ultimately responsible for the reviled zoot suit SG, robotuners, the Firebird X and countless other duds. 

It's a funny old world.

Hankie J 'jamming'!

 

 

[prowla]

On 28/04/2019 at 18:13, Al Krow said:

So is this guy just spouting dangerous crap?! 😄

Nope - he's talking about a 4003, which evolved from the 4001, which had horseshoe magnets (the pickup came from a lap steel guitar originally).

Here's one with a horseshoe pickup.

[prowla]

On 29/04/2019 at 16:45, Bassassin said:

I think it's an actual Schaller 3D on the Rick 5 - they've used Schaller tuners & hardware on a few models. That's one of the things that made me wonder if the roller saddle bridge on the new Cisneros was a collaborative design.

The 4004 Laredo has a Schaller bridge.

[prowla]

On 02/05/2019 at 21:22, Ricky 4000 said:

You won't find him. He's living in Norway, cleverly disguised as an elk.

The word is that he retired to Birmingham!

[prowla]

As far as defending the Ric brand goes, I rather admire it; keeping production in that same factory, piecewise improvements of the design & manufacture over half a century of production; it's a lot better than the wild-west of Fender basses, where you don't know if that you are getting is genuine, there are fake transfers everywhere, and some brands even produce fake Fenders.

However, producing their own treble bezel is at best a bit hypocritical, I would say.

[drTStingray]

2 hours ago, prowla said:

As far as defending the Ric brand goes, I rather admire it; keeping production in that same factory, piecewise improvements of the design & manufacture over half a century of production; it's a lot better than the wild-west of Fender basses, where you don't know if that you are getting is genuine, there are fake transfers everywhere, and some brands even produce fake Fenders.

However, producing their own treble bezel is at best a bit hypocritical, I would say.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is absolutely correct. 

[drTStingray]

19 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

TBPH I don't know if Mr Hall plays any musical instrument, save that instanced by our brother NikNik.

Leo Fender didn't play guitar yet brought us the Tele, the Strat, the P and the Jazz. Gibson's Ted McCarty didn't play guitar yet brought us the Les Paul, the 335, the Explorer and the Vee.

OTOH, Henry Juskiewicz could play guitar (after a fashion) and he was ultimately responsible for the reviled zoot suit SG, robotuners, the Firebird X and countless other duds. 

It's a funny old world.

Sterling Ball's a good bass player (and guitar player). Not essential for a CEO of a musician instrument maker to do this but is probably helpful.

Ive heard it said that somewhere in the senior leadership of the organisation of the amorphous mass known as FMIC there are people who play the instruments or even sing. 

[drTStingray]

14 hours ago, Doctor J said:

I had an entirely cordial exchange with him, also via the forum. I had a small neck issue with a 4003 I had asked about. He contacted me directly and offered to personally inspect it as he was going to be holidaying in Ireland in the not-too-distant future. Top man.

So nice to hear a positive view on this subject - judging by the number of people I see playing Rics, I can only think most of them don't bother to join bass forums as you don't hear much from them here. 

Whilst Mr Hall's treatment of the powers that be at Basschat was certainly nasty, as stated above, the guy is simply protecting his brand from counterfeiters - even Talkbass has banned threads in praise of counterfeits. 

The merciless slaying of this CEO on here does smack a bit of artists (painters) attacking windmills in the olden days..... or even school kids bemoaning a particular headteacher 😀

[Skinnyman]

3 hours ago, prowla said:

As far as defending the Ric brand goes, I rather admire it; keeping production in that same factory, piecewise improvements of the design & manufacture over half a century of production; it's a lot better than the wild-west of Fender basses, where you don't know if that you are getting is genuine, there are fake transfers everywhere, and some brands even produce fake Fenders.

However, producing their own treble bezel is at best a bit hypocritical, I would say.

Well put. I have no problem with companies defending their IP even if their approach is (they would say necessarily) aggressive. But if the RRF post above is genuinely from the bezel designer as it appears (hey, it's the internet - trust nothing) then Ric would appear to be guilty of massive hypocrisy.

I did have GAS for a 4003s but that's  fading quickly.....

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Skinnyman

[NikNik]

28 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

Well put. I have no problem with companies defending their IP even if their approach is (they would say necessarily) aggressive. But if the RRF post above is genuinely from the bezel designer as it appears (hey, it's the internet - trust nothing) then Ric would appear to be guilty of massive hypocrisy.

I did have GAS for a 4003s but that's  fading quickly.....

 

What RIC tried to do with the horseshoe was to use US Trademark law to register the design of a lapsed patent, then served Jason Lollar with a lawsuit. They didn't do their homework correctly and when the likes of Rick Turner (and ex-RIC employees) were on-call as witnesses for Lollar, they plopped it and settled at the pre-hearing. 

I have no reason to believe that Sunsetjunk's posting on RRF is a work of pretence and, as has been hinted at, I don't think he wants to get tied up in a legal battle with RIC. I can only imagine his disappointed at what could be called a 'Richard move' by RIC.

[Bassassin]

25 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Whilst Mr Hall's treatment of the powers that be at Basschat was certainly nasty, as stated above, the guy is simply protecting his brand from counterfeiters - even Talkbass has banned threads in praise of counterfeits.

Point of order here - but an important one I think. I've not visited TB for a very long time so I haven't seen the threads, but legally a "counterfeit" is a very different thing to a copy. No vintage Rickenfaker was ever manufactured or retailed as a counterfeit, and neither were any of the recent branded copies like Rockinbetter or Retrovibe. The only counterfeiting I'm aware of is the Rickenbacker-logo'd trash available through AliBaba, Tradetang or similar.

I'm unsure why TB would have removed discussions about Fakers from their site - RIC has no legal right to intervene or have any involvement in simply talking about these instruments. JH, and RIC in general's crusade against all copies, is their legal obligation under US law to be seen to challenge unauthorised use of their registered trade dress designs. If they don't, they lose the exclusive right to use these designs, in the way Fender & Gibson did in the 70s.

From that perspective it's understandable they'd move to attempt to stop the sale of Fakers through BC & TB - regardless of how little weight legal threats - particularly outside of the US - would have. It's all about being seen to be doing something.

 

[Woodinblack]

21 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

I'm unsure why TB would have removed discussions about Fakers from their site - RIC has no legal right to intervene or have any involvement in simply talking about these instruments. 

If you had talked to Mr Hall, you would probably understand!

[prowla]

16 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

Point of order here - but an important one I think. I've not visited TB for a very long time so I haven't seen the threads, but legally a "counterfeit" is a very different thing to a copy. No vintage Rickenfaker was ever manufactured or retailed as a counterfeit, and neither were any of the recent branded copies like Rockinbetter or Retrovibe. The only counterfeiting I'm aware of is the Rickenbacker-logo'd trash available through AliBaba, Tradetang or similar.

I'm unsure why TB would have removed discussions about Fakers from their site - RIC has no legal right to intervene or have any involvement in simply talking about these instruments. JH, and RIC in general's crusade against all copies, is their legal obligation under US law to be seen to challenge unauthorised use of their registered trade dress designs. If they don't, they lose the exclusive right to use these designs, in the way Fender & Gibson did in the 70s.

From that perspective it's understandable they'd move to attempt to stop the sale of Fakers through BC & TB - regardless of how little weight legal threats - particularly outside of the US - would have. It's all about being seen to be doing something.

 

The thing is that RIC tradmarked some of their (ahem) trademark design features, including the headstock and TRC shape.

Thus the recent copies (including Rockinbetter & Retrovibe) infringe that; however, the vintage Japanese ones pre-date the trademarks being registered and so do not.

But yes, part of the game of defending your intellectual property (IP) is to demonstrate that you are doing so; it's a bit like the Rugby League players who have to do a worm impression when they are tackled to prove that they are being prevented from getting up.

 

 

[chris_b]

Talkbass doesn't seem to have banned threads about fake Rickenbackers. There are thousands of them including some posted this month.

[kodiakblair]

@Bassassin

The Talkbass guide on fakes is you can post your fakes but you can't say anything positive about them. 

[BigRedX]

2 hours ago, Bassassin said:

From that perspective it's understandable they'd move to attempt to stop the sale of Fakers through BC & TB - regardless of how little weight legal threats - particularly outside of the US - would have. It's all about being seen to be doing something.

RIC don't need to work outside of the US to have real weight to their legal threats. Most web sites (including Basschat) rely on at least one US-based service to keep functioning. RIC just has to target these.