John Hall?

[bubinga5]

11 minutes ago, Billy Apple said:

I had a Hipshot Ric replacement bridge. I didn’t find it all that TBH. A lot of transverse movement in the saddles.

At least you can adjust the intonation. Am I wrong in saying you can't adjust the truss on any Rick, or was it the early models. 

[NikNik]

1 minute ago, bubinga5 said:

At least you can adjust the intonation. Am I wrong in saying you can't adjust the truss on any Rick, or was it the early models. 

On the old 4001s you had to physically move the neck then tighten the rods.

[bubinga5]

3 minutes ago, NikNik said:

On the old 4001s you had to physically move the neck then tighten the rods.

Sorry I meant to say. Can you adjust the intonation on any Rick bridge. 

[prowla]

27 minutes ago, Billy Apple said:

I had a Hipshot Ric replacement bridge. I didn’t find it all that TBH. A lot of transverse movement in the saddles.

The Hipshot addresses some issues but introduces others. It is certainly not de-rigeur for a Ric )as some would have it).

[prowla]

27 minutes ago, bubinga5 said:

At least you can adjust the intonation. Am I wrong in saying you can't adjust the truss on any Rick, or was it the early models. 

You are wrong, yes. 

You can adjust the intonation on a Ric. 

As for individually adjusting the saddle height, why would you? The bridge matches the curve of the fingerboard, so it’s set once and forget.

As for the truss rods, you have to use a different technique to adjust them on vintage 4001 models to what you would do on a Fender (which has now become the defacto standard, but wasn’t in 1960). If you don’t like that then don’t buy a 4001 (which haven’t been made for 30+ years).

4003 truss rods adjust just like any other modern instrument, except you have two, so you can tweak the action across the neck too. 

Ric truss rods are also user replaceable, if you ever need to and you can buy the parts from RIC.

Demanding RIC adopt the Fender way is ridiculous. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by prowla

[bubinga5]

5 minutes ago, prowla said:

You are wrong, yes. 

Yiu can adjust the intonation on a Ric. 

As for the truss rods, you have to use a different technique to adjust them on vintage 4001 models to what you would do on a Fender (which has now become the defacto standard, but wasn’t in 1960). 

4003 truss rods adjust just like any other modern instrument, except you have two, so you can tweak the action across the neck too. 

Ric truss rods are also user replaceable, if you ever need to and you can buy the parts from RIC.

Demanding RIC adopt the Fender way is ridiculous. 

Ahh ok. Intonation.?

[prowla]

5 hours ago, bubinga5 said:

Ahh ok. Intonation.?

Sure - the bridge is a tune-o-metic, like on (eg.) Gibson guitars. 

It actually has about as much travel as a Hipshot. (The Hipshot saddles are closed at one end, so their travel is only the length of the thread inside the length of the saddle.)

I have two Hipshots in my parts box which were on Rics but I’ve reverted to stock. 

They are good to address a couple of issues, but otherwise no.

Edited May 7, 2019 by prowla

[Billy Apple]

1 hour ago, bubinga5 said:

At least you can adjust the intonation. Am I wrong in saying you can't adjust the truss on any Rick, or was it the early models. 

Mine was a 4001. You have to loosen off, set the neck and tighten up. Different set up to a Fender or Gibson and hence so many busted ones

[Billy Apple]

Sorry, realised others had said the above. I was posting before getting to the end!

[drTStingray]

On 5 May 2019 at 17:06, NikNik said:

I get that you are both, maybe, defenders of the RIC faith but there is no 'slaying' taking place. There's just a discussion of JH taking place. I have no respect for the man whatsoever yet some of you appear to be taking umbrage over it.

 

19 hours ago, NikNik said:

Anyway, back to John Hall.

One thing that I have to admire about him is his ability to stay away from the internet these days, ever since he spat the dummy on RRF over the badly-made 4003S models his company was making at the time. And he's never been seen since. Well,  maybe on the Facebook group but I wouldn't know.

And he's still coming up in searches as CEO. Poor Ben, the Prince Charles of RIC, destined never to accede to the throne until the king has shuffled off this mortal coil. Knowing Wee John, he'll be using the family billions to find a way to live on after his body's given up the ghost.

 

No slaying of CEOs? You sure? 🤔

Interesting to read some of the other posts as well - it sounds like Rickenbackers are pretty good instruments - they're certainly popular as you see them in use quite often. 

John Hall seems to be doing a pretty good job of running his company. I suppose with the most famous bass guitarist ever having used one for a significant and productive period you've got all the exposure you need (I didn't mean Lemmy or Chris Squire!!) 

Edited May 8, 2019 by drTStingray

[NikNik]

5 hours ago, drTStingray said:

 

No slaying of CEOs? You sure? 🤔

Interesting to read some of the other posts as well - it sounds like Rickenbackers are pretty good instruments - they're certainly popular as you see them in use quite often. 

John Hall seems to be doing a pretty good job of running his company. I suppose with the most famous bass guitarist ever having used one for a significant and productive period you've got all the exposure you need (I didn't mean Lemmy or Chris Squire!!) 

That montage is hardly 'merciless slaying'.

You say 'it sounds like Rickenbackers are pretty good instruments...'. I take it from that statement you haven't owned or played one? John Hall's doing a 'pretty good job of running his company'? That's debatable and belongs in a whole other thread.

JH does get a hard time from Rick users and non-users alike. In my experience, it is wholly deserved. Let me offer you a few reasons why.

Back in the early 2000's I bought an old, stripped '74 4001, my first since the two I'd had in the '80s. Both of those basses were 'dogs', as it is sometimes said, but with my interest in the model re-ignited I decided to give them another bash. The '74 had some issues (NOS hairpin rods needed) but I was happy with it. Then came a '73 in Fireglo with cheq. That was a really good bass. Then came a 4001LF and a 4003 BlueBoy. And with that latter purchase, things got interesting. I also got to encounter the real John Hall.

I had been a member of the official Rick forum back then and noticed that a few guys who'd bought the BB were having colour issues, such as the blue fading to a mint green. Mine did this within a matter of months and whilst I quite liked it I was alarmed that a finish should be changing so soon in an instrument's life. Then, I began to see nicotine-like streaks/splotches appear in the finish, as did others. We questioned this on the forum and then JH waded in. As soon as there was any form of criticism - even warranted - of his company, his business practice, his instruments, he would go for you. And he went for me. I was hectored at length about how the finish could not have possibly changed in such a short time; that I must be leaving the bass in a smoke-filled environment;  that I was exposing it to UV light; that chemicals in my skin were causing the changes. So, he went on the attack right away. Throughout the years I have witnessed him come out on the attack time and time again: it is your fault, not mine! Now, doesn't that make him sound like a little bully? And when you get personally attacked by JH via e-mail you know that you are dealing with an unreasonable man. He would wade into conversations with such burgeoning rudeness that I often wondered if the man had a mental health condition for he seemed unable to address anyone who had a grievance, or difference of opinion, civilly. You really had to sit back and think 'Is this guy the head of RIC? Wow!!' You could search RIC Forum (and the cabal of acolytes, RRF) over the past 15-20 years for the stuff he's waded in on.

And I'm not even going to start on the pursuing of 'fakers made 40+ years ago. There's a wealth of information out there about the man; it's up to you if you want to look for it and learn a little bit what he's like.

[drTStingray]

Thanks for the response, and very interesting - not a good experience with him then or that finish, which sounds like it had issues from the start. I'm guessing this was in the earlier days of the Ric forum? 

I suspect that most manufacturers prefer to deal with instrument issues direct with the customer through whatever customer services operation they have rather than in public on their own Internet forum, for obvious reasons. That said if you get nowhere with that, I guess raising it on their forum raises the matter and you can talk to people with the same problem - or better still on somewhere like this site or one of the other bass guitar forums. 

If you're buying a car you can usually identify potential issues other owners have had by trawling the Internet, and forums like this one but dedicated to the type of car you're buying - but the thing is they are never forums run by the manufacturer. 

I think therein lies the issue with raising instrument issues on a manufacturer forum as a general principle, quite apart from the potential legal issues created by the manufacturer's response (which is why they often don't reply on a public forum these days - directing people to an appropriate channel of communication). It has to be a direct one to one conversation. I think in the early days of forums and wider use of the Internet, there did tend to be occassional vitriolic exchanges - probably a case of company individuals learning how to deal with the new media, or even recognise that it requires specialist communication skills.

Im guessing these points just show him to be passionate about his company, regardless whether the responses in certain instances are appropriate. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by drTStingray

[NikNik]

1 hour ago, drTStingray said:

Thanks for the response, and very interesting - not a good experience with him then or that finish, which sounds like it had issues from the start. I'm guessing this was in the earlier days of the Ric forum? 

I suspect that most manufacturers prefer to deal with instrument issues direct with the customer through whatever customer services operation they have rather than in public on their own Internet forum, for obvious reasons. That said if you get nowhere with that, I guess raising it on their forum raises the matter and you can talk to people with the same problem - or better still on somewhere like this site or one of the other bass guitar forums. 

If you're buying a car you can usually identify potential issues other owners have had by trawling the Internet, and forums like this one but dedicated to the type of car you're buying - but the thing is they are never forums run by the manufacturer. 

I think therein lies the issue with raising instrument issues on a manufacturer forum as a general principle, quite apart from the potential legal issues created by the manufacturer's response (which is why they often don't reply on a public forum). It has to be a direct one to one conversation. 

He's seen less and less, now. But I must iterate that above is just one of my experiences with him; with others, they are legion. It was hoped that things would change when Ben, his son, took over but AFAIK JH is still there. And he's now got the treble bezel issue to deal with. He, of all people: what was he thinking when copying that?

I sometimes think if he cared a bit more about his customers, instead of this 'my way or the highway' attitude, he'd have a lot more respect given to him. And a lot more customers, too.

Edited May 8, 2019 by NikNik

[prowla]

I have to say I’ve never bought a new Ric and have never dealt with the company. 

I just like the basses!

[NikNik]

26 minutes ago, prowla said:

I have to say I’ve never bought a new Ric and have never dealt with the company. 

I just like the basses!

Well, I bought two new ones; the rest were 2nd-hand. I, too, never had to deal with the firm but I did have to deal with Hall.

I like them, too. When you get a good one. I'd like one of those Ruby Red 4003S but, in the words of a poster on a thread from long ago '..... I can definitely see the option of buying a 'pre-owned' Ric as opposed to putting more money in this shmuck's pocket.' Not that he needs the money, of course, but I appreciate the sentiment behind the action

[prowla]

8 hours ago, NikNik said:

Well, I bought two new ones; the rest were 2nd-hand. I, too, never had to deal with the firm but I did have to deal with Hall.

I like them, too. When you get a good one. I'd like one of those Ruby Red 4003S but, in the words of a poster on a thread from long ago '..... I can definitely see the option of buying a 'pre-owned' Ric as opposed to putting more money in this shmuck's pocket.' Not that he needs the money, of course, but I appreciate the sentiment behind the action

I think I've only bought two basses new, ever; one was my 1st, a Columbus Jazz, and the other was an Aria Pro II SB700 in the early 80s.

TBH, I think you can get good, bad, and mediocre from any brand.

[4000]

On ‎07‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 09:10, bubinga5 said:

Sorry I meant to say. Can you adjust the intonation on any Rick bridge. 

Of course you can adjust the intonation. It's just that where the bridge sometimes sits low in the tailpiece, you sometimes can't do it whilst the bass is strung up (not dissimilar in principal to the fact that you have to remove old Fender necks to access the trussrod). The misinformation about Rics that is out there is so, so weird.

Edited May 9, 2019 by 4000

[prowla]

10 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Of course you can adjust the intonation. It's just that where the bridge sometimes sits low in the tailpiece, you sometimes can't do it whilst the bass is strung up (not dissimilar in principal to the fact that you have to remove old Fender necks to access the trussrod). The misinformation about Rics that is out there is so, so weird.

It’s just folklore, spread by people who don’t understand why they’re not a Fender, to whom the answer is - go buy a Fender!

Do people blame Gibson because the bridge isn’t a Strat one?

[4000]

2 minutes ago, prowla said:

It’s just folklore, spread by people who don’t understand why they’re not a Fender, to whom the answer is - go buy a Fender!

Do people blame Gibson because the bridge isn’t a Strat one?

I do think that lack of familiarity and understanding is a big problem. Like with the 4001 necks; people hear about damaged trussrods or popped fingerboards without understanding that in the bulk of these cases the rods were adjusted incorrectly by people who didn't know the correct way to adjust them. Many people also seem unaware that the 4001 came with relatively low tension flatwounds as standard.

Geddy Lee's tech said when they took his main Ric out of the case after some years it was exactly as it always was, whereas his Jazz has been through several necks.  

[Skinnyman]

On 08/05/2019 at 09:27, NikNik said:

He's seen less and less, now. But I must iterate that above is just one of my experiences with him; with others, they are legion. It was hoped that things would change when Ben, his son, took over but AFAIK JH is still there. And he's now got the treble bezel issue to deal with. He, of all people: what was he thinking when copying that?

I sometimes think if he cared a bit more about his customers, instead of this 'my way or the highway' attitude, he'd have a lot more respect given to him. And a lot more customers, too.

I spent a lot of time yesterday sitting in waiting rooms for one appointment after another. As I had time to kill, I spent a lot of time on the RIC, RRF and TB forums, searching for posts made by Mr Hall. I did this to supplement the opinion of the man that I've formed from this and other threads on here.

Now, I've had no direct dealings with John Hall and certainly not the direct and aggressive interactions that Nik and others have had. I also recognise that some contentious material may have been deleted from forums so i am not looking at the total picture. And i haven't read every single post the man has ever written - there are thousands of them.

But I've read enough to build a picture and the impression that I get is of a man who has inherited a small (about 200 employees) family business and who is passionate about preserving the legacy that was handed to him.

I suspect he's not the easiest person to work for. I am sure that the factory production process could be more efficient. And, for sure, the products he makes have "character" (to put it kindly).

But the reality is that over the years of his tenure he has maintained a profitable, debt-free company which makes a niche product for which people are prepared to a) wait and b) pay a premium.

To do this, he's flown in the face of the generally accepted "best practice" of the last thirty years.

He has resisted the temptation to devalue his brand by moving some of his production to the Far East.

He has made small, incremental changes to his product range rather than continually chase new markets and growth at all costs.

He came through the worst recession of recent times with a profitable company and a larger workforce than he had when it started.

He protects his brand passionately and in doing so has avoided the fate of Fender and Gibson who saw their products' value being undermined by hundreds of clones of varying quality.

I've never met the man so i don't know if I'd like him or not as an individual. I suspect not. I think there are certainly character flaws and the apparent copying of the treble bezel appears to be a huge error of judgement at best, if not completely and idiotically hypocritical.

As an analogy, if Fender are the guitar equivalent of VW/Audi and Gibson are like Fiat/Chrysler then Rickenbacker remind me a lot of Chapman-era Lotus. A small company led by a flawed but dedicated individual producing a flawed but charismatic product that has a small but passionate customer base.

In a world of global mega-corporations all in thrall to their investors and the demand for continuous, unsustainable growth, there is room for companies like Rickenbacker - even if their CEO is a bit of an a*se at times.

(All of the above is personal opinion based on the reading i did yesterday. Others will have more knowledge than I do and yet others have had direct (and sometimes contentious) interaction with Mr Hall and i don't wish to contradict or undermine them in any way. These are just my opinions, nothing more)

[Stub Mandrel]

On 06/05/2019 at 00:29, Bassassin said:

The trashy-looking Chinese knockoffs, which are sold badged as Rickenbacker through outlets like AliExpress. They're crap counterfeits, but counterfeits nonetheless.

Such things are exactly what all this China-America trade dispute is all about.

I see eearches both Bangood and AliBaba auto fill 'rickenbacker electric guitar' and 'rickenbacker bass guitar' but don't show any results, which suggests that some things have been taken down.

[Ricky 4000]

1 hour ago, Skinnyman said:

I spent a lot of time yesterday [...]

What a great post! ^^^^^. 😎

3 hours ago, 4000 said:

I do think that lack of familiarity and understanding is a big problem. Like with the 4001 necks; people hear about damaged trussrods or popped fingerboards without understanding that in the bulk of these cases the rods were adjusted incorrectly by people who didn't know the correct way to adjust them. Many people also seem unaware that the 4001 came with relatively low tension flatwounds as standard.

Geddy Lee's tech said when they took his main Ric out of the case after some years it was exactly as it always was, whereas his Jazz has been through several necks.  

The neck on my '73 4000 has never needed adjustment in the 20+ years I've had it. It's always had light gauge rounds or flats on, and it's still arrow straight. 👍

[Teebs]

10 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said:

The neck on my '73 4000 has never needed adjustment in the 20+ years I've had it. It's always had light gauge rounds or flats on, and it's still arrow straight. 👍

 

[Ricky 4000]

7 minutes ago, Teebs said:

 

My action is even lower than y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶s̶i̶s̶t̶e̶r̶ ... a low thing. 😃

[skankdelvar]

On 09/05/2019 at 15:34, Skinnyman said:

I spent a lot of time yesterday sitting in waiting rooms <snip> These are just my opinions, nothing more)

And they're pretty much spot-on.

Hall can't really be faulted in terms of his company's operational strategy. It's one of many possible approaches that will produce different outcomes and if he's happy with the outcome he's chosen then fair play. It's also true that he enjoys quite good relations with individuals and publications who are satisfied with his products and his approach to business.

On the other hand, Hall can be unacceptably rude and dismissive to those with whom he is at variance, even to customers with genuine cause for complaint. Moreover, some have at times pointed out that the basis for some of his litigation might be without foundation. I recall his abusive treatment of an individual on the Rick Resource who during the Janglebox affair had correctly and politely observed out that - under US law -  one may copyright a circuit diagram but one cannot copyright a circuit.

For me, the defining moment came a few years ago when Hall tried to bully not only BassChat but also the Admin here with whom he was in personal correspondence. Hall basically got a bloody nose then trotted off to a Ric-friendly forum and presented events in such a way as to place himself in a good light with his obsequious sycophants.

So, Hall may possibly be an astute businessman but he is also, in my undoubtedly biased opinion*, not only a gaping prolapsed rectum but also a waste of useful cubic footage that might more profitably be occupied by a hot drinks vending machine.

* Basically: My BassChat, right or wrong.

Edited May 10, 2019 by skankdelvar
eliminating duplication