Ricky 4000 Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 You're lucky if you get one with the bridge screwed on straight. Literally. That's not being sarcastic. They're still cool though... actually they're more cool with the faults. 😃 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyman Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said: They're still cool though... actually they're more cool with the faults. 😃 Strange but true..... It's odd how, with some things, these flaws are "character" and with others they're just unacceptable shoddiness. I had a Laverda twin motorbike which oozed character. Literally - all over the drive. It was so lumpy at idle that it would rock itself off the side stand. And yet.... It had an undefinable air about it that made it a joy to ride. Taking a corner at sixty put a grin on your face even if you knew that a Ducati or Honda - or anything, really - would have cruised through easily at 90. And Rics make me feel the same. They have "character" that would fail QC in any modern factory and you have a horrid feeling that you'd never get anything other than derision if you made a warranty claim. And yet.... On the right night at the right gig, you can make it thunder like Thor and it makes you feel fantastic. Like my Laverda, they're not for everyone and any right-minded person would run a mile and I wouldn't criticise anyone for not liking them. I like mine and that's really all that matters 😀 IMHO, obvs. YMMV Edited May 13, 2019 by Skinnyman 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 8 hours ago, Bassassin said: @NikNik - in fairness to Prowla, he does own several MIJ and MIK Fakers as well as his Ricks so his opinion is pretty objective. Despite him being a proper Rickenbacker fanboy! I'm on 3 fakers at the moment. As far as real Rics go, I've only ever owned basses in the 4000 range, so I don't have much to say about the guitars or other models. Also, I've never bought a new one, so I've not had dealings with the company. So I don't see myself as a defender of the brand in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 11 hours ago, Captain Bassman said: I’ve been curious about Rics for ages but never taken the plunge, mainly because my pick playing is pretty sh*te by gig standards. Anyway this thread got me interested again so at the weekend I popped into Guitar Guitar to have a nosey. They have 5 brand new 4003s in the Epsom store - a walnut with binding, a mapleglow with binding, 2 matte blacks - one with and one without binding - and a lefty fireglow. All 5 look absolutely stunning. I didn’t plug any in but noodled briefly on all 4 rightys acoustically but I was mainly interested in the build quality. All appeared really well built and finished (the matte black is particularly stunning) but on closer inspection... Of the 3 basses with binding, the walnut and matte black had clear ‘steps’ in the level between the plastic binding and the wood edge where they hadn’t been sanded completely smooth. This was mainly apparent on the top edge but also around the lower horn. The best of the bunch binding-wise was the mapleglow which was nigh-on perfect. In terms of general finish all 4 looked very good except for the fingerboard of the mapleglow which had some dust specks evident in gloss lacquer. The worst was the walnut where the finish around the edge of the top horn wasn’t actually finished. There were still what looked like sanding marks in the wood. Given that the basses range in price from £1,899 (matte black no binding) to £2,499 (matte black with binding) after GG discounts I would expect QC on instruments at this price point to be top notch but it’s apparent that flaws are getting through. The ‘small company’ excuse can’t really be used in justification when you have much smaller one man band luthiers turning out near flawlessly finished instruments. I would still love one but iconic looks and sound cannot make up for such poor QC on basses commanding 2 grand and over. I guess as others have said, you have to keep shopping until you find that good ‘in. My opinion only, of course. I’m surprised the shop didn’t reject them. Or are they expected to do final finish & setup, like car dealers do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, NikNik said: In my experience, yes. By a long chalk. Dwell in this: at one point I owned 8 4000 series basses; now I have none. Yet I have three Greco Ricks. Had them for several years. Does that not tell you something? In fact, don't bother replying. I've read your posts across various fora and you clearly are a champion of the RIC brand. Just please don't doubt they're the be-all and end-all of basses, for they aren't. Far from it! I've never played a Greco that's as good as either of my '72s, IMO. But the pre-early-'73 basses aren't like the later ones. I'll never forget the first day I picked my main bass up, in A1 Music. I said to my then girlfriend "that's the best bass I've ever played", and yet I didn't get to buy it until, by some fluke, it was still there almost a year later. Evidently others didn't feel the same, or I was just lucky. Thousands of basses later, and having subsequently owned Warwicks, a Pedulla, various Statii, Jaydees, Wals, Alembics, Seis, etc etc, it's still - for me - the best bass I've ever played. However a friend I sold my '76 to, which I got rid of because the '72 was so, so much better IMO, absolute night and day, prefers the '76. The thing is, all this is subjective. The fact that you prefer your Grecos just proves that you prefer your Grecos, nothing more. And as each individual instrument will always differ somewhat (as I say, my favourite of all the thousands of basses I've played is my main '72 4001, but I've played both Rics and Rics copies that I don't like), it's pretty pointless to generalise too much. What annoys me is the attitude that a Ric can't possibly be objectively someone's favourite bass, simply because it's not "yours". Why not? Why is it if someone finds a bass that happens to be perfect for them and it happens to be a Ric, it's dismissed with a flippant "fanboy, no substance" comment? Edited May 14, 2019 by 4000 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 On 13/05/2019 at 10:28, Bassassin said: Genuinely curious about this. I do come from the perspective of not being a Rick owner & not being able to A/B a 4001/4003 with a 4004 - but do they sound broadly the same then? I've spent enough time around Rick players & fans to know that the alchemy claimed as the constituents of the classic Rick tones is a combination of the various idiosyncracies of the instrument - the single-coil hi-gains, the way they're mounted, the .0047 capacitor, even the much debated & much maligned hollow tailpiece. The 4004 has humbuckers directy mounted to the timber and a high-mass Schaller bridge - I don't know if it has the bass cut cap but I'd assume it doesn't. You'd think it would have a lot of inherent tonal difference purely based on the nuts & bolts of its components & build. Strange story about the 4002 @NikNik, I never saw these on Ebay! Wonder if there will be a 4002 reissue after all, if JH's really gone... No, they don't sound the same, but the DNA is there. A lot of it is due to the pickup position, construction etc. Having said that, when I bought my 4004 I tried 2, and although they were in the same ballpark they sounded different. Having said that, I've never played 2 of any bass that sound exactly the same when a/b-d. FWIW I always remove the cap in my 4001s, except for my main one where I suspect it's not working at all. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 I’ve got Rics, Warwicks, Status, Fender/parts-built, and one or two others. I do like my Warwicks too. 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikNik Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 4 hours ago, 4000 said: I've never played a Greco that's as good as either of my '72s, IMO. But the pre-early-'73 basses aren't like the later ones. I'll never forget the first day I picked my main bass up, in A1 Music. I said to my then girlfriend "that's the best bass I've ever played", and yet I didn't get to buy it until, by some fluke, it was still there almost a year later. Evidently others didn't feel the same, or I was just lucky. Thousands of basses later, and having subsequently owned Warwicks, a Pedulla, various Statii, Jaydees, Wals, Alembics, Seis, etc etc, it's still - for me - the best bass I've ever played. However a friend I sold my '76 to, which I got rid of because the '72 was so, so much better IMO, absolute night and day, prefers the '76. The thing is, all this is subjective. The fact that you prefer your Grecos just proves that you prefer your Grecos, nothing more. And as each individual instrument will always differ somewhat (as I say, my favourite of all the thousands of basses I've played is my main '72 4001, but I've played both Rics and Rics copies that I don't like), it's pretty pointless to generalise too much. What annoys me is the attitude that a Ric can't possibly be objectively someone's favourite bass, simply because it's not "yours". Why not? Why is it if someone finds a bass that happens to be perfect for them and it happens to be a Ric, it's dismissed with a flippant "fanboy, no substance" comment? Well, Grecos have ceramic pups so they're not gonna sound like your '72. Did I make a fanboy accusation? Don't think I did. However, Prowla asked what copies were s good as Ricks and I offered Greco. He dismissed that with brevity. Fair enough. I just happen to disagree with him on that point. Bar my '73 and CS, I had issues with every other Rick bass I had. Combine that with the attitude of the rottweiler who is the subject of this thread and you can see why some players become jaded, if not dejected with RIC. Or even a tad reactionary. Nota Bene: I don't mean to cause offence. If I have, I apologise forthwith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 46 minutes ago, NikNik said: Well, Grecos have ceramic pups so they're not gonna sound like your '72. Did I make a fanboy accusation? Don't think I did. However, Prowla asked what copies were s good as Ricks and I offered Greco. He dismissed that with brevity. Fair enough. I just happen to disagree with him on that point. Bar my '73 and CS, I had issues with every other Rick bass I had. Combine that with the attitude of the rottweiler who is the subject of this thread and you can see why some players become jaded, if not dejected with RIC. Or even a tad reactionary. Nota Bene: I don't mean to cause offence. If I have, I apologise forthwith. "In my experience, yes. By a long chalk. Dwell in this: at one point I owned 8 4000 series basses; now I have none. Yet I have three Greco Ricks. Had them for several years. Does that not tell you something? In fact, don't bother replying. I've read your posts across various fora and you clearly are a champion of the RIC brand. Just please don't doubt they're the be-all and end-all of basses, for they aren't. Far from it!" But the right Ric to the right person may very well be the be all and end all. As might the right Fender, the right Wal, the right Squier. What you prefer has no bearing on what suits someone else, however much better you may think it is. You've also implied that Prowla's opinion doesn't count because he champions the brand. Could it be he champions them because he actually likes them, not because he's in some way blind to whatever flaws you perceive? The 'fanboy" implication is there, as it is across countless other threads. FWIW I've owned about 20 Rics, and currently own a replica for use when I don't want to risk the others (I hesitate to call it a copy). Of those I've had 2 duffers and 1 meh. In addition, the finish on both of my CSs was rubbish as it marked if you looked at it. The 2nd ('91) CS also had some build issues, although I did like them both. Beyond that, they've all been different, and all have been from good to great. But my main one has stood head and shoulders above the others, as it has above everything else I've played. It has flaws, but they're more than made up for by everything else. It's light ( maybe 8.5lb), has the best neck I've ever played, looks gorgeous (IMO obviously) and sounds better, to my ears and taste, than anything else. Do I expect anyone else to feel the same? No. But it's irrelevant what anyone else thinks, because it's my choice. My bass, my ears, my hands, my eyes. FWIW I've had some very minor conversational dealings with JH, with mixed results. But I care about the bass in my hands, not the CEO. And to be fair, I've only bought 3 (?) new Rics in nearly 40 years.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikNik Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 There was no implication that anyone else's opnion does not count. How do you arrive at that from me stating someone is 'champion' of a brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikNik Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Meddle said: Stop digging. You were a diva, then you jump into victim mode. Be an adult. Right, dad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 :D !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 What's the going price for a Greco 4001 copy these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Just now, prowla said: What's the going price for a Greco 4001 copy these days? We'll never know... Not on Basschat anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Billy Apple said: We'll never know... Not on Basschat anyway I meant in general terms, or rather what have they recently sold for, rather than what is for sale now. Edited May 15, 2019 by prowla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Just now, prowla said: I meant in general terms, rather than what is for sale now. I meant in a way for light comic relief. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 On 15/05/2019 at 18:32, prowla said: What's the going price for a Greco 4001 copy these days? Hard to say for several reasons - Greco is a Japanese domestic brand and has never been officially exported anywhere. Also Greco Fakers were around for a very long time, so there will be a lot of model variations - they first appeared in Greco catalogues in around 1972 and were still available as late as 1997. This means that there will be plenty of used examples in Japan, where I don't think RIC are as proactive with copies as elsewhere. However this means that prices are going to be subject to big shipping costs, import duties and CITES. That said, dunno why it would have to be a Greco, as Greco, like most Japanese brands, has never been a manufacturer. Early Greco catalogues show both Fujigen & Matsumoku Fakers (they sourced from both factories) and subsequently they moved exclusively to Fujigen, and for various reasons I'm inclined to think that's where all subsequent ones came from. So, since Mat & Fgn built Fakers with lots of different names, maybe get one of those instead, as it's the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 I was just curious as to the price, rather than actually wanting to acquire one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 I think what Bassassin is trying to say is that they are quite difficult to get hold of, and that the price will be over-inflated, compared with one made in the same factory that is identical in every way except for a less "sexy" name on the TRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 (edited) So, a 4003S went on ebay for £971 this week; I nearly bid on it. My last 3 Rics have cost me £1000, £1100, and £1000. Edited May 18, 2019 by prowla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreadBin Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, prowla said: So, a 4003S went on ebay for £971 this week; I nearly bid on it. My last 3 Rics have cost me £1000, £1100, and £1000. I wouldn't be surprised to see it get relisted. I recently 'won' a PS4 Pro for a very low price and the seller just cancelled my order. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, BreadBin said: I wouldn't be surprised to see it get relisted. I recently 'won' a PS4 Pro for a very low price and the seller just cancelled my order. Could be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarlscharisma Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 (edited) You don't see Rics flying off the shelves these days. GuitarGuitar have had some in for months and months. I have seen 2 4003S basses go at stupid prices on eBay this year...one of them was mine! Anyone selling a Ric, be careful when selling auction-style - My opinion is their value has diminished in recent times. And it is absolute madness to buy new if you end up flipping it a few months later when it stands in the corner gathering dust. Edited May 18, 2019 by Sarlscharisma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowla Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 FYI, John Hall is doing a meet & greet in June. https://www.soundaffects.com/electric-guitars-c95/1x-ticket-presenting-an-afternoon-with-john-hall-p12984 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 They're only £7.50, should we all buy a couple and then none of us show up? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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