So, Titanium strings

[Buzz]

So, EBMM have just released some new strings (for our skinny brethren), [url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/press_releases/new_ernie_ball_coated_titanium_electric_slinky_strings_available.html"]News on UG.com[/url].

However, I fancy speculating if these new technologies will make it on to bass strings, and more importantly if they do, will they offer a new area of sound from our standard two materials, as steels are bright and zingy generally, whereas nickel are a bit more mellow and warmer.
Having a quick look around, doesn't seem as if anyone else makes titanium strings, there might be a resoning behind that...


[b]So, what do you think folks, if they eventually make a bass version, will they sound alreet? [/b]

Personally I think with Titanium being a harder metal than steel that they'll sound even harsher and brighter, but that's only a guess.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Buzz

[lee650]

I think EBS make a titanium bass string, but ive not tried them and i havent seen them for sale anywhere, would really be interested to know if anyone has used them, id love a string somewhere between nickel and steel that would be great.
I await any news with baited breath- lee




So, EBMM have just released some new strings (for our skinny brethren), [url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/press_releases/new_ernie_ball_coated_titanium_electric_slinky_strings_available.html"]News on UG.com[/url].

However, I fancy speculating if these new technologies will make it on to bass strings, and more importantly if they do, will they offer a new area of sound from our standard two materials, as steels are bright and zingy generally, whereas nickel are a bit more mellow and warmer.
Having a quick look around, doesn't seem as if anyone else makes titanium strings, there might be a resoning behind that...


[b]So, what do you think folks, if they eventually make a bass version, will they sound alreet? [/b]

Personally I think with Titanium being a harder metal than steel that they'll sound even harsher and brighter, but that's only a guess

[timloudon]

I've heard that titanium drum symbols (while looking cool) don't sound very nice.

But that's just on the grapevine.

Surely these things are going to be uber-expensive as well?

[s_u_y_*]

I bought and tried the EBS Titanium nickel coated strings. I should have thought of it when I bought them, but the low density of the material makes them incredibly light. They're cool strings and all, but I do like strings with higher masses, i.e. DR string's compression winding technique, but don't like too thick a gauge. So I ended up taking them off and putting them in a corner somewhere. Tonally, they seemed slightly more top end-y to me. I would imagine the physical and tonally properties might be suitable for someone who engages in a lot of slap and tapping work.

If you like your strings light without a reduction in gauge, then these are the type of strings are you. If not (like me) you're better off somewhere else.

Edited December 14, 2008 by s_u_y_*

[Jarhead]

I'd buy if they are brighter then stainless steel. Depends how much they cost as well though.
Zach

[GreeneKing]

It's worth remembering that neither EBS or I suspect EBBM actually make strings.

[Kiwi]

I've found sellers on Ebay who offer titanium strings under lesser known brands.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Titanium-Alloy-45100-Electric-Bass-Guitar-Strings_W0QQitemZ270294838685QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Guitar_Accessories?hash=item270294838685&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1317"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Titanium-Alloy-45100...%3A1|240%3A1317[/url]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OSP-HEXTONES-40-4-BASS-GUITAR-STRINGS-TITANIUM-COATED_W0QQitemZ200275862011QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item200275862011&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OSP-HEXTONES-40-4-BA...p3286.m63.l1177[/url]

I like the idea of a lower mass string in principle as I have a fairly light touch and hope I might be able to play a little faster with the same volume. Not sure what the tension will be like though.

[bass_ferret]

I have some EBS strings on my KSD but the bottom 4 of a 5 string set. They are much brigher than my usual strings but as I usually use Status Hotwire halfs and TI JF thats not difficult. They also feel quite sharp on the fingers but I have not got any other rounds to compare them to.

You can get EBS strings from Bernie Goodfellow.

Edited December 14, 2008 by bass_ferret

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='354180' date='Dec 14 2008, 12:53 PM']I like the idea of a lower mass string in principle as I have a fairly light touch and hope I might be able to play a little faster with the same volume. Not sure what the tension will be like though.[/quote]

f=fundamental frequency
L=scale length
T=tension
m=mass per unit length

f=(1/2L)SQRT(T/m)

(2fL)^2=T/m

m(2fL)^2=T

So tension is directly proportional to mass per unit length and also directly proportional to the square of scale length (so longer scales are better at adding tension than heavier strings).

Alex

[Kiwi]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='354197' date='Dec 14 2008, 01:08 PM']f=fundamental frequency
L=scale length
T=tension
m=mass per unit length

f=(1/2L)SQRT(T/m)

(2fL)^2=T/m

m(2fL)^2=T

So tension is directly proportional to mass per unit length and also directly proportional to the square of scale length (so longer scales are better at adding tension than heavier strings).

Alex[/quote]

you crack me up Alex!

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='354197' date='Dec 14 2008, 01:08 PM']f=fundamental frequency
L=scale length
T=tension
m=mass per unit length

f=(1/2L)SQRT(T/m)

(2fL)^2=T/m

m(2fL)^2=T

So tension is directly proportional to mass per unit length and also directly proportional to the square of scale length (so longer scales are better at adding tension than heavier strings).

Alex[/quote]

Fine.
But this notwithstanding, it's easier to change "m" on any given bass than it is to change "L"! "f", I presume, is dependent on the pitch to which the string is tuned, with the other values changing accordingly as a result.

And...

Titanium strings? Even Titanium [i]coated[/i] strings? Kiss your frets goodbye as they are devoured by your exceptionally hard new strings!

The [i]other[/i] Alex.

[bass_ferret]

Is the scale length measured between the bridge and the nut or the total length of the string including through body and wraps round the post ?

[Lfalex v1.1]

Methinks it is the talking (properly vibrating) length of the string-

From bridge saddle to nut.

I think I see what you're getting at;
The fix that some people use to improve "B" string tension by putting less turns around the machine head than usual?

I think that works by reducing the perceived elasticity of the string. As you pull on the string when plucking (or strike when playing percussively) the string stretches. It is anchored at the bridge (by a ball-end) and at the machine heads by wrapping the string around. This is a less substantial anchor, as the turns around the post can stretch ever so slightly, softening the feel of the string when plucked/hit. Less turns around the machine head = less length of elastic string stretching under load. This helps to improve the string response.

Now I think about it, it's part of the reason that double-ball-end string designs often sound/feel so good.

[alexclaber]

The most accurate measure of scale length is nut to 12th fret doubled, as the intonation adjustment for the strings' imperfections makes the nut to saddle length variable.

T'other Alex is quite correct about perceived elasticity - you can't change tension by doing anything other than changing scale length, tuning or mass per unit length - but you can change the 'feel' by allowing more or less elasticity through allowing string length either side of the witness points to contribute to the total elasticity or even give up slack in the coils around the tuning pegs, just as you can change the feel by changing the string stiffness (it's this that mostly requires the intonation adjustment although magnet strength has a small effect) or even the neck stiffness! It's very complicated indeed.

I really cannot see the point of using less dense materials for bass strings when most are already too low in tension yet high in stiffness but maybe that's just me - I use 38-58-78-104-134 nickels on a 36" scale. A manly bass.

CK, glad to be of service.

Alex

[skankdelvar]

...and that's without even getting into the 'feel / tone' issues of:

* Break angles over the nut and the bridge

* Distance from nut to tuner, saddle to end fixing point

* Low string height for 'playability' vs higher for 'brightness'

* Other abstruse issues understood only by the likes of Dan Erlewine

In any case, this whole titanium things sounds like the work of the devil. It's been downhill all the way since they stopped making strings from soup and donkey-gut.

[Kiwi]

I've just installed a set of titanium alloy strings by Olympia with some interesting first impressions. The strings do appear to be a little lighter in mass and more supple than stainless steel equivalents by D'Addario. I like this, and I'd imagine its a slappers dream. The only difference tonally is that the fret clatter is at a slightly lower frequency and has slightly less sparkle. Nothing necessarily bad with that at all unless I was looking to do a Marcus Miller impersonation.

Lets see how long they last for...

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Buzz' post='353964' date='Dec 14 2008, 12:00 AM']So, EBMM have just released some new strings (for our skinny brethren), [url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/press_releases/new_ernie_ball_coated_titanium_electric_slinky_strings_available.html"]News on UG.com[/url].


Personally I think with Titanium being a harder metal than steel that they'll sound even harsher and brighter, but that's only a guess.[/quote]

My guitarist got a set of these three weeks ago. two gigs later and 3 have broken. He was over the moon when he got them.
yes, he got all the usual "you should learn how to play properly" jokes but you would think they would last a bit longer than a couple of gigs.

[chris_b]

I wish more development was going into Laser and Piezo pickup technology for bass, and then string materials could broaden even more to include gut, plastic, rubber, etc

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

[quote name='chris_b' post='357009' date='Dec 17 2008, 02:43 PM']I wish more development was going into Laser and Piezo pickup technology for bass, and then string materials could broaden even more to include gut, plastic, rubber, etc[/quote]
Mmm silicone rubber

[Bay Splayer]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='354197' date='Dec 14 2008, 01:08 PM']f=fundamental frequency
L=scale length
T=tension
m=mass per unit length

f=(1/2L)SQRT(T/m)

(2fL)^2=T/m

m(2fL)^2=T



Alex[/quote]

think you dropped your passport photo..

[url="http://imageshack.us"][/url]

[warwickhunt]

I'm confused by this 'feel' or 'elasticity' by putting more wraps around the tuning post (though I've [u]heard[/u] that longer lengths between the nut and the tuning post can alter 'feel' I've never witnessed/felt it myself, even when I had a left handed fender neck on a right handed bass i.e. long E string nor have I noticed any appreciable difference with thru body stringing)! When the string is tuned to pitch that is it! It is at tension appropriate for the given pitch and any 'stretch' allowed by string windings means that it is now NOT at pitch. Or am I missing something?

[alexclaber]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='362545' date='Dec 24 2008, 09:23 AM']Or am I missing something?[/quote]

The tension is only constant when the string is at rest.

I was amazed by how much looser the strings felt on my Warwick than on the headless (double ball-end) Hohner that I had previously, which was due to increased elasticity beyond the witness points. I also suspect that instruments which exhibit more sustain of lower overtones feel looser because of increased string movement.

Alex

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='362710' date='Dec 24 2008, 12:00 PM']The tension is only constant when the string is at rest.

I was amazed by how much looser the strings felt on my Warwick than on the headless (double ball-end) Hohner that I had previously, which was due to increased elasticity beyond the witness points. I also suspect that instruments which exhibit more sustain of lower overtones feel looser because of increased string movement.

Alex[/quote]

I hear what you are saying Alex but I'll have to step back from this a bit because I can't see the 'logic' behind that.

Could the differential between your Hohner and Warwick not equally be attributed to the string itself (manufacturer, gauge, core shape etc). I noticed a greater difference in string 'feel' going from one string manufacturer to the next than I do going from one bass manufacturer to another. I have a couple Streamers and the difference in 'feel/elasticity' between their strings is noticeable with different string manufacturers (same gauge), yet they have identical witness/anchor points. When I recently had the opportunity to swap between a Fender P bass with the same DR Sunbeam strings on as my Warwick SSI, both basses had an almost identical 'feel' as though they had a similar elasticity etc. Totally unscientific I know but it is 'feel' that we are talking about.

Just shooting the breeze.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Hmmm...
WH, I can see what you're getting at with the "Different Strings on the same bass" being more different than "The same strings on a different bass" comparison.
I'd also agree that, due to the number of altered variables, it is most likely true.

I think the caveat that AC and I neglected to add about perceived feel being influenced by the amount of "elastic" string available outside of the witness points is;

"For any given instrument at a given tuned pitch with a given set of strings on it, the perceived feel of the string may be altered by changing the overall length of the string by (for example) reducing the number of turns around the tuning post..."

(Phew!)

You can see this elasticity in action. Plug into a tuner and accurately tune a string. Pluck it, and watch the tuner needle or LEDs move first sharp, then flat, and then settle back to "in tune"
Sorry. I fear I have led us astray, and that we are now well and truly "Off topic"!

[clauster]

I say a law should be passed that titanium be reserved for the manufacture of motorcycle exhaust systems.