Zoom B1-4 & B3N - Effects patch ideas and tips

[Chienmortbb]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@JohnDaBass here you go John - my 4 dirt patches and a few of my others - available to download directly onto your Zoom B1-4 via ToneLib

B1-4 DG B7K.zb1f 643 B · 1 download B1-4 BlueB BOD.zb1f 673 B · 0 downloads B1-4 BOF.zb1f 460 B · 0 downloads B1-4 RAT.zb1f 590 B · 0 downloads B1-4 TapeEcho300.zb1f 406 B · 0 downloads B1-4 OctDnFuzz.zb1f 551 B · 0 downloads B1-4 Z-Synth.zb1f 472 B · 0 downloads

Thanks for that. I have just got one so those are going on tomorrow. 

[Al Krow]

2 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Thanks for that. I have just got one so those are going on tomorrow. 

Very welcome - please do let me know if you think any of them are half decent!

Btw, as we discovered earlier in the thread, the patch sharing only works for the exact same model ie B1-4 only in this case and not available to upload even onto the B1X-4 unfortunately, which I previously had - ended up sharing the individual patch settings - easiest by doing a screen shot of the Zoom software in that case - and dialling it in.

A bit of a pain, but not unusual: similar issue with HX Stomp and Effects in terms of patch sharing. 

[Chienmortbb]

The patches on tho seem a lot less gimmicky than the standard patches on the B1 ON. Have you kept any of them?

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

The patches on tho seem a lot less gimmicky than the standard patches on the B1 ON. Have you kept any of them?

Yeah a few of them and certainly a very good starting point but I will often tweak rather than use "as is" - particularly on the drive to either blend in clean and / or boost the low end. On the fx the ZNR noise reduction is often worth sticking on at the end and I may add a comp at the start of the signal chain. Amp and cab sims are pretty much good to go as they are.

They do all need the patch volumes adjusting though, so you don't end up with volume spikes / drops - but that will be obvious as you work through. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Al Krow

[JohnDaBass]

12 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@JohnDaBass here you go John - my 4 dirt patches and a few of my others - available to download directly onto your Zoom B1-4 via ToneLib

B1-4 DG B7K.zb1f 643 B · 1 download B1-4 BlueB BOD.zb1f 673 B · 0 downloads B1-4 BOF.zb1f 460 B · 0 downloads B1-4 RAT.zb1f 590 B · 0 downloads B1-4 TapeEcho300.zb1f 406 B · 0 downloads B1-4 OctDnFuzz.zb1f 551 B · 0 downloads B1-4 Z-Synth.zb1f 472 B · 0 downloads

@Al Krow Thank you so much for sharing your patches. DG B7K. RAT & TapeEcho are really fantastic and are definitely staying on my B1-4.

You are a true Gent. ( & Tone Master )

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, JohnDaBass said:

@Al Krow Thank you so much for sharing your patches. DG B7K. RAT & TapeEcho are really fantastic and are definitely staying on my B1-4.

You are a true Gent. ( & Tone Master )

Thanks John, you're much too kind. Have to say I do LOVE the Tape Echo - it's taken me far too long to discover it on the B1-4 (and I should add in time on the B3N before that, which I bought as my first multi fx when they first came out in April 2017). There are a definitely a couple of songs in our sets where that's going to get used eg Feel it Still by Portugal. 

[Al Krow]

A couple of my active 5 string Yammy basses have a very meaty low end - in particular my NE2 and 735A, both of which are easily capable of rattling window panes!

Taming the low end - Low EQ sim

To deal with this I've put together a little "Shelf EQ patch" using the LowEQ sim set at 40Hz and -12dB. In fact I had two of these sims combined with the ZNR at the end to reduce background noise from my PB, and it very noticeably reduced the window rattle. I think this is going to be my default clean patch going forward and I'll add this to the back end of existing patches (other than drives, which don't need any help losing low end - lol!) where space permits. Only takes up 14% DSP. FYI - I found the "Shelf" setting to be significantly more effective than the "HPF" setting.

A pretty neat filter! - Env Filter sim

Not sure whether this is a recent addition, but I noticed I hadn't downloaded the Env Filter sim which is modelled on the much loved MXR BEF. Blimey this is good! In fact I'll go as far as to say it's as good as anything I found on Helix and whilst it's not quite in the same league as my 3Leaf Proton Mk4, I'd say it was 80% of the way there. Unlike the actual MXR BEF, which is uni-directional, this provides the option of both up sweep and down sweep. I set up both at the front of the chain, with the Shelf EQ patch at the back end to deal with the low end spikes.

Patches for the B1-4 if you want to give them a spin:

ShelfEQ.zb1f BEF-UP.zb1f BEF-DN.zb1f

Edited November 1, 2020 by Al Krow

[krispn]

I have to ask is the widow rattling only a issue once you boost the bass in active mode or present in passive mode or with the bass boost ‘flat’? Feels like not boosting bass (too much) would mitigate some of the issue? From memory the eq  on the 73X series is pretty flat when in the centre detent. It’s cool to have some eq patches available to suit a room etc but equally the active eq on a bass is designed to do exactly that too. Boosting lows to then have to cut them via an eq patch feels a little counterproductive... I’ll get my coat!

[Al Krow]

Nah it occurs in active mode with EQ set flat. Besides the NE2 doesn't have a passive mode.

Yup cutting the bass EQ on the bass itself will do something similar, no question - although I'm never 100% certain where the bass EQ is centred on basses as the manufacturers seem to think this is vital IP they need to protect! I can be more selective / certain what frequencies I'm cutting with the pedal I guess is one advantage. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

Actually Gav - now you've mentioned it the more significant benefit is in passive mode on the 735A. This has the same window rattle capability in passive mode as on active mode set flat - which is what you would expect. However there is not the same ability to cut / boost bass in passive mode (the only EQ is treble which acts as a tone control) and the Shelf EQ comes into its own to cut the low end below 40Hz.

You'll be able to do the same on some amps e.g. some of the older Markbass by simply cutting the bass; although the bass EQ is more commonly set at higher than 40Hz (typically 65Hz through to 80Hz) on many amps; so an EQ pedal just allows a little more finesse. And in the case of the B1-4 it obviously comes at no extra cost, being just another part of its Swiss army knife toolkit.

[Cuzzie]

 

15 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Nah it occurs in active mode with EQ set flat. Besides the NE2 doesn't have a passive mode.

Yup cutting the bass EQ on the bass itself will do something similar, no question - although I'm never 100% certain where the bass EQ is centred on basses as the manufacturers seem to think this is vital IP they need to protect! I can be more selective / certain what frequencies I'm cutting with the pedal I guess is one advantage. 

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/brochure/0/320280/ne1.pdf
 

http://www.untrue.ch/test/ne-1/

[Osiris]

9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Actually Gav - now you've mentioned it the more significant benefit is in passive mode on the 735A. This has the same window rattle capability in passive mode as on active mode set flat - which is what you would expect. However there is not the same ability to cut / boost bass in passive mode (the only EQ is treble which acts as a tone control) and the Shelf EQ comes into its own to cut the low end below 40Hz.

The fact that you're also getting window rattling sub bass in passive mode suggests, to me at least, that the pickups are the problem here. I'm not up on Yamaha models but is this the same model, or at least the same pickups as in the white Yam 5 sting of yours that I heard in action a couple of years ago? That bass had a lot going on it the lows, too much for my liking, and it sounds like it could be the same thing going on here. If that's the case I'd be inclined to lower the pickups into the body away from the strings to let the bass breathe more, or if that doesn't cure it, look to replace them with something less subby. You can, of course, use a patch on the Zoom to compensate but that's more a case of putting a plaster over it rather than addressing the actual cause of the problem in the first place. 

[Al Krow]

Agreed Sid that adjusting (in this case lowering) pup heights is a sensible thing to be thinking about and in fact was the very first thing I did with the "replacement" 735A I've now got (please see the the Yammy thread for my quick review).

Bear in mind, and I point I should have mentioned earlier, that my testing of the "Shelf EQ" patch was done whilst playing a low D below the bottom E, so not a low end issue that most 4 string players will commonly encounter in everyday use unless they are engaging drop D or de-tuning - so this is more geared to 5 string players and the patch itself is focussed at just below the low E fundamental.

I'm trying to think whether it was my former (white) Yamaha BB425 of mine you heard a couple of years back - but I don't recall exactly when you are thinking of (I've had a few white Yammys now!). And yes the pups on that were kick-a*s punchy! 

[krispn]

You might find that you’ve got a resonant frequency or a sympathetic frequency which is causing the rattle but you’ll know the room better and what acoustic quirks it has. I’ve had this happen before too in certain rooms. 

[Al Krow]

Yeah fair point.

Ideally you would want a full parametric EQ with control over Q to give you pin-point control over resonant frequencies but, even so, a semi para EQ will still be a step up from the bass pre-amp or the amp itself where you're stuck with the "factory" bass centre frequency.

I guess that's another plus for the B1-4 in that you can adjust the centre frequency (albeit only in 10Hz intervals) that you're cutting i.e. it's giving you a semi-parametric EQ.

Zoom B1-4 (or Zoom B3N) as a 4 band semi para EQ

If you wanted / needed it you could have 2 Low EQ and 2 High EQ sims in one patch (with a slot still spare!) to give you a 4 band semi para EQ, allowing you to cut or, indeed, boost in the 20Hz to 640Hz range for the Low EQ and 500Hz to 20kHz range for the High EQ. 

Pretty impressive as "just another thing" from a £60 pedal! 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Al Krow

[krispn]

Pretty impressive? Sure why not but it’s just eq’ing at the end of the day. Figure out what needs cutting and cut it. Job done!

[Al Krow]

Haha - true. But folk are willing to part with £200+ on pedals that are "just eq'ing" whereas this little box of tricks is providing you quite a lot of sophistication on that score for not a great deal! 

[krispn]

People and their spending habits!

[Al Krow]

Just to finish this off from my side today - here's a Low EQ patch with the HPF setting, rather than Shelf setting, with -12dB/octave cut starting at 80Hz.

The most "boomy" of my bits of gear is actually my 4 string Stagg EUB, whose only tone control is a sub-sonic boost, which I've found to be a bit pointless! I have it set at nil.

The Shelf EQ patch leaves the EUB sounding a little "hollow" at the low end; whereas the HPF EQ gives a warmer / fuller low end tone certainly on my Stagg.

HPFEQ.zb1f

[Osiris]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Agreed Sid that adjusting (in this case lowering) pup heights is a sensible thing to be thinking about and in fact was the very first thing I did with the "replacement" 735A I've now got (please see the the Yammy thread for my quick review).

Bear in mind, and I point I should have mentioned earlier, that my testing of the "Shelf EQ" patch was done whilst playing a low D below the bottom E, so not a low end issue that most 4 string players will commonly encounter in everyday use unless they are engaging drop D or de-tuning - so this is more geared to 5 string players and the patch itself is focussed at just below the low E fundamental.

I'm trying to think whether it was my former (white) Yamaha BB425 of mine you heard a couple of years back - but I don't recall exactly when you are thinking of (I've had a few white Yammys now!). And yes the pups on that were kick-a*s punchy! 

Thanks for the detailed response but I suspect from what you're saying that the pickups are still bass heavy, especially in the undesirable sub bass region, as it's more prevalent below a low E. That's something that will need to be kept under control and you've built the your Zoom patch to do it, but on a bass like that I wouldn't have expected something like that to be an issue. Having said that, the white 5 string Yam of yours I heard (I don't remember the exact model) was also quite bass heavy, IMO. You described it as 'kick a55 punchy' but to my ear it sounded bloated and somewhat uncontrolled. But I guess we all hear things differently. To me, punchy means the fat low mids filling out the low end of a mix, something that the humble Precision excels at. But punch is a nebulous term that means different things to different people.

[Thunderbird]

2p worth yammy pups are pretty hot but don't try ramming the pups down to much as if it's the adjuster I think it is they don't like hefty adjustment if it was my bass I might look inside can't remember if that model has internal pots on the pre

[Al Krow]

Probably worth my mentioning before it gets lost is that the EQ patch, whilst clearly of deep interest to some (hehe!), was actually not the key patch I wanted to share with any B1-4 / B3N owners checking in.

That was actually the excellent MXR BEF sim I also uploaded on the same post earlier. 

Be interested to see what you think of it. Definitely one of the better multifx filter sims I've come across - particularly given it offers both up and down sweep. 

[Rustybass Belgium]

Hi,

Im having doubts buying a zoom B1 four for my gig rig. Would like to use it in combination with my Panda FI v3 to do some (basis) looping and creating interesting sounds on top of boring basslines.

since I blew all my money on the FI pedal I need something cheap that does some basic stuff and had a loop function.

Do you guys reckon the B1 Four is up to that task?

cheers!

[Al Krow]

B1-4 + (e.g.) Lekato looper will get you there. 

The looper on the Zoom (and indeed Helix) is pretty pants compared to most standalone loopers. The Lekato is both compact and very good value for money. 

[Al Krow]

A little bit of presence

One of the features of Markbass cabs is their tendency to roll off the high end and the old LM2/3 heads have a huge gap between their high mid centre EQ of 800Hz and their treble centre EQ of 10kHz, so there's not much you can do to sort that out with them (the newer ranges have much better EQ centre points).

Having got myself a used MB Combo for home practice, with an LM2 head, I found that pairing it with my Tech 21 VTDI was a marriage made in heaven with the "bite" always on. This is a "presence" switch which boosts high-mids and usable treble and has an HPF to tighten up the low end.

I recently spotted that the Berg Forte has a presence switch which they stated boosts the treble by 6DB at 6.5KHz - which was a very useful bit of info and I thought I'd therefore have a go at a DIY "presence" patch on my B1-4.

Using two BassPEQ sims centred at 1.6kHz (high mids) and 6.3kHz (treble) with Q at 3 for both and gain (boost) at +12/20. Followed by Low EQ (HPF) sim and ZNR (noise reduction), seems to work a treat.

Sadly given that uses 4 out 5 available blocks it can't be an "always on feature" on the Zoom if you want to engage other effects which require more than a single block - but will be very handy for brightening up a MB Combo with my spare B1-4 when I don't want get the full pedal board out!

Edited November 23, 2020 by Al Krow