Tried IEM's last night for the first time at practice

[jimmy23cricket]

Game changer!

That is all

[stingrayPete1977]

Yep. 

[EBS_freak]

Now the fun begins!

[Unknown_User]

As someone who knows nothing about these, do they only work if everything is running through the PA?  I guess otherwise it'll stop you from hearing the rest of it properly?

[jimmy23cricket]

In my VERY ltd experience, you can only hear (through the monitors) instruments are coming through a common mixing desk...so yes.

Although we didn't have the drums miked, but that didn't matter in a smallish rehearsal room!

 

[kusee pee]

5 hours ago, jimmy23cricket said:

Game changer!

That is all

Totally.  You'll never go back.

[EBS_freak]

4 hours ago, Unknown_User said:

As someone who knows nothing about these, do they only work if everything is running through the PA?  I guess otherwise it'll stop you from hearing the rest of it properly?

You can use them without putting anything through a PA (although that is what I would recommend).

The easiest way of achieving this, is using something like a field recorder (think of those Zoom devices for recording gigs) - by plugging into those (and you don’t even have to press record) will enables you to monitor what the mics on those devices pickup. What this gives you is effectively a set of electronic ear plugs with a volume control on. Ok you have no ability to mix individual instruments - but it will give you a better reproduction of audio over a passive barrier such as an earplug that despite what marketing says, does mess with the frequencies.

Something like a H6 is proper boss - as it enables you to have the ambient onboard mics, a stereo mix from a desk and also a “more me” function, again in stereo. I have put a few keys players onto those and they are superb.

[EBS_freak]

3 hours ago, jimmy23cricket said:

In my VERY ltd experience, you can only hear (through the monitors) instruments are coming through a common mixing desk...so yes.

Although we didn't have the drums miked, but that didn't matter in a smallish rehearsal room!

 

See the post above. You are right, that’s the common way - but there are other ways to get a serviceable inears mix without a desk. Hope this helps!

[jimmy23cricket]

That's a cracking idea EBS! Seems a much more "on the fly" type solution but nice and simple.

[dannybuoy]

I've never used IEMs in a live environment, but my last band used to rehearse/jam/write almost exclusively through headphones round the drummer's house. That was certainly a game changer being able to hear everyone properly without going deaf. As long as your drummer is happy using an electric kit that is, many wouldn't be!

[Paul S]

51 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

You can use them without putting anything through a PA (although that is what I would recommend).

The easiest way of achieving this, is using something like a field recorder (think of those Zoom devices for recording gigs) - by plugging into those (and you don’t even have to press record) will enables you to monitor what the mics on those devices pickup. What this gives you is effectively a set of electronic ear plugs with a volume control on. Ok you have no ability to mix individual instruments - but it will give you a better reproduction of audio over a passive barrier such as an earplug that despite what marketing says, does mess with the frequencies.

Something like a H6 is proper boss - as it enables you to have the ambient onboard mics, a stereo mix from a desk and also a “more me” function, again in stereo. I have put a few keys players onto those and they are superb.

Never, ever considered doing that.  Thank you - such a brilliant idea!    A giant hearing aid!

[colleya]

We don't mike everything up so I use them as a sort of augmented earplug.

I run the kick drum, bass and all 4 vocals through the desk so I can have a bit 'more me' in my ears to help me hit harmonies etc whilst keeping the beat and hearing the lead vocal properly.

Cymbals etc get picked up through the drummer's headset mic and the guitar is usually loud enough without needing a boost, so it works for me.

[warwickhunt]

Sorry to resurrect but... 

It's been mentioned above re. hearing the rest of the band but if I wanted to play live and be able to hear the whole band as a balanced blend (so that I can play off what they play), I'd need the whole band to be ampless - yes?  

This leads me to ask if the drummer is still cracking away on (mic'd) drums, my IEMs would need to be loud enough to balance/block him out - could this then lead to potential hearing damage as IEMs need to be turned up; again especially if there is any form of foldback/monitor on-stage?

I realise that many acts/performers are using IEMs with no backline but I'm thinking of the daily, practical implications for a small band, which might not always have a good engineer (assuming we are using a decent PA).  

[wateroftyne]

3 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Sorry to resurrect but... 

It's been mentioned above re. hearing the rest of the band but if I wanted to play live and be able to hear the whole band as a balanced blend (so that I can play off what they play), I'd need the whole band to be ampless - yes?  

This leads me to ask if the drummer is still cracking away on (mic'd) drums, my IEMs would need to be loud enough to balance/block him out - could this then lead to potential hearing damage as IEMs need to be turned up; again especially if there is any form of foldback/monitor on-stage?

I realise that many acts/performers are using IEMs with no backline but I'm thinking of the daily, practical implications for a small band, which might not always have a good engineer (assuming we are using a decent PA).  

John - if the stage balance is good, but you just want to lower the level and tighten the overall sound, I can’t recommend those custom-moulded ACS plugs enough. For 40 quid, you can’t go wrong.

(obviously this doesn’t apply if you want to hear a balance which isn’t on-stage already)

[warwickhunt]

I've had a set of custom mould attenuated plugs for about 7-8 years Michael but new venture has me thinking of the next step to improve things... just trying to get my head around how it will work on a practical level going around theatres with different engineers/systems etc.  I want to hear sax and keys which are on the other side of the stage and they go through wedges which I'm not getting unless my vocal wedge starts to get muddied by everything + I then need to stay rooted in front of the monitor... does that make sense?     

[EBS_freak]

6 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

Sorry to resurrect but... 

It's been mentioned above re. hearing the rest of the band but if I wanted to play live and be able to hear the whole band as a balanced blend (so that I can play off what they play), I'd need the whole band to be ampless - yes?  

This leads me to ask if the drummer is still cracking away on (mic'd) drums, my IEMs would need to be loud enough to balance/block him out - could this then lead to potential hearing damage as IEMs need to be turned up; again especially if there is any form of foldback/monitor on-stage?

I realise that many acts/performers are using IEMs with no backline but I'm thinking of the daily, practical implications for a small band, which might not always have a good engineer (assuming we are using a decent PA).  

The band doesn't have to be ampless, no. You close mic what you want to hear and do a mix of those feeds. If you want to hear the audience, put a condenser mic or two their way.

The key point is that decent IEMs have in the region of -27dB (ish) attenuation (so think putting your fingers deep into your ears). Then the feed that you put into your IEM is fairly quiet (and safe on your ears) because you haven't got to blast the volume to get over the ambient noise that would be otherwise leaking in to your ear lugs, through the IEM from the outside world. This is why it is important to get an IEM that offers a good level of attenuation on it's own - before you even start putting music through them.

In reality, you don't need that much to make IEMs work. A small XR mixer with a couple of drum mics, a mic in front of each guitar cab, DI off the bass... and an XLR split off the vocal mics and you are there... Or alternatively, if you don't mind the stage mix you are getting, the Zoom field recorder approach can do you well also. It all depends on how much control you want over your mix.

[EBS_freak]

2 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

I've had a set of custom mould attenuated plugs for about 7-8 years Michael but new venture has me thinking of the next step to improve things... just trying to get my head around how it will work on a practical level going around theatres with different engineers/systems etc.  I want to hear sax and keys which are on the other side of the stage and they go through wedges which I'm not getting unless my vocal wedge starts to get muddied by everything + I then need to stay rooted in front of the monitor... does that make sense?     

If you are on theatre desks, the easiest thing to do is get a headphone amp/wireless IEM system, and run it off a spare aux (or two if you want stereo). Of course, you'll have to coordinate wireless frequencies with the engineer. There's going to be a fair amount of auxes available on theatre desks. If you are used to having a wedge, ditch the wedge and have the aux used for that going to your IEMs.

Edited July 6, 2019 by EBS_freak

[wateroftyne]

7 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

I've had a set of custom mould attenuated plugs for about 7-8 years Michael but new venture has me thinking of the next step to improve things... just trying to get my head around how it will work on a practical level going around theatres with different engineers/systems etc.  I want to hear sax and keys which are on the other side of the stage and they go through wedges which I'm not getting unless my vocal wedge starts to get muddied by everything + I then need to stay rooted in front of the monitor... does that make sense?     

Ah, fairy nuff. In that case, theatres will be well prepped to deal with IEMs, and they have high attenuation so you don't need to worry about having to keep up with the drummer 🙂