Same Tuners for all band members?

[Sammers]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I stuck mine in chromatic mode and intend to leave it there!

I was only a newbie to bass back then, I just thought it was step on and go. Had no clue it could do that 😂

[DJpullchord]

What’s wrong with just using your ears?

[josie]

Advice I picked up on BC recently - sorry I can't remember who from - is to tune on the 12th fret rather than the open string. My 12th fret readings are consistently higher than the open string readings (on all my basses - with a Polytune clip-on). Not by much, but by more than some mentioned above. Again though probably best if the guitard(s) do the same? or are the lower harmonics stronger on a bass? That would make sense... 

[jrixn1]

21 minutes ago, josie said:

 tune on the 12th fret rather than the open string. My 12th fret readings are consistently higher than the open string readings (on all my basses - with a Polytune clip-on). Not by much, but by more than some mentioned above.

Might have misunderstood you, but it sounds like your intonations is off. Notes at all frets should be perfectly in tune. Fix this by adjusting the saddles towards the end of the bass to lengthen the strings.

[paul_c2]

Hmmmm, probably a few myths floating around.....here's some facts:

1. The vast majority of people can't hear more accurately than +/- 5 cents anyway.....(but you can hear the effects of being out, eg the beating between nearly-the-same pitches or intervals)
2. Apart from a tiny handful, almost all guitars are fretted so they play in "equal temperament" anyway - so they'll be ever-so-slightly out of tune on all but one note, to varying amounts, but the out-of-tuneness in itself isn't ferociously unpleasant.
3. When you pluck a string, the laws of physics means that the string vibrates at different frequency (pitch) upon initially being struck, then as it decays, anyway (string instruments when bowed don't do this though).

So unless there's user error or you're massively far out or a tuner is faulty/wrong, then its not really a worry.  

[BigRedX]

9 hours ago, DJpullchord said:

What’s wrong with just using your ears?

Assuming that this is a serious question and not just trolling...

Using your ears is fine for practicing at home where there are no other sonic distractions, and TBH is good skill for all musicians to acquire. However at a gig, tuning should be done quickly and silently. That's only possible with an electronic tuner. The "tuning song" is one of the most unprofessional things a band can`inflict on their audience, and having an electronic tuner solves this problem simply so you be stupid not to take advantage of it.

[steve-bbb]

23 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

When I took singing lessons I was told my relative pitch is spot on; I don't have perfect pitch but I could sing a song to a note on a piano and hold the not at the end and it would be dead on.

Plus, I did a hearing test recently and went up to nearly 15KHz, which is apparently as good as the average for someone 20 years younger than me.

🙂

thats all well and good but whn you been stood on a stage at volume next to a drumkit for a while your ears will possibly react differently

[phil.c60]

8 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Assuming that this is a serious question and not just trolling...

Using your ears is fine for practicing at home where there are no other sonic distractions, and TBH is good skill for all musicians to acquire. However at a gig, tuning should be done quickly and silently. That's only possible with an electronic tuner. The "tuning song" is one of the most unprofessional things a band can`inflict on their audience, and having an electronic tuner solves this problem simply so you be stupid not to take advantage of it.

Plus when playing along with fixed pitch instruments  (like a harmonica) if your ears are even slightly dodgy it will sound off. Electronic (Korg Ptichblack) all the way for me.

[Stub Mandrel]

22 hours ago, josie said:

Advice I picked up on BC recently - sorry I can't remember who from - is to tune on the 12th fret rather than the open string. My 12th fret readings are consistently higher than the open string readings (on all my basses - with a Polytune clip-on). Not by much, but by more than some mentioned above. Again though probably best if the guitard(s) do the same? or are the lower harmonics stronger on a bass? That would make sense... 

If your 12th fret is sharp compared to the open string, don't you need to adjust the intonation?

I always use an electronic tuner to match the first harmonic and 12th fret notes when setting my intonation.

[Stub Mandrel]

22 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

3. When you pluck a string, the laws of physics means that the string vibrates at different frequency (pitch) upon initially being struck, then as it decays, anyway (string instruments when bowed don't do this though).

This is very obvious if you have a tuner that reacts as quickly as the TU-3.

Bye the bye, I tuned a bass yesterday, brought it to practice and every string was a few cents sharp - with this thread in mind I wondered if my tuners were at odds. But the instrument was cold. Once it had warmed up all the strings were flat by a few cents... I obviously have a temeperature sensitive bass!

[EliasMooseblaster]

20 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

But the instrument was cold. Once it had warmed up all the strings were flat by a few cents... I obviously have a temeperature sensitive bass!

I doubt you're alone in that respect - it has been bastard cold the last few evenings

[paul_c2]

Pretty much all acoustic (as in, they GENERATE the sound acoustically, not electronically like a synth - so by that definition an electric guitar generates the original sound acoustically, then its amplified electrically) instruments change pitch with temperature. I have a theory that at a particular temperature if its in tune, then going cold then warm, it will go out of tune but should return to being in tune. The theory being based on the expansion/contraction of wood, metal, whatever. 

So yes, being sharp when cold, then going flatter as it warms up is the normal behaviour of a bass. More noticeable in winter, when you go to a rehearsal and the bass is in a (cold) car that probably didn't warm up inside that much, then you arrive and tune up to find its sharp compared to last time. 

I'm sure we've all noticed in a particularly hot or lively gig, things get hotter and hotter and everything gets a bit out of tune and needs re-tuning. Its also why sometimes its pointless to tune up for the first song, what you should do is play a song then tune up. Or better still, tune up, play a song, then tune up again.

All told though......basses don't have a real problem staying in tune compared to guitars. Its a bit of a non-issue. Its in theory better with some instruments (eg violin, cello, trombone, etc) because they can adjust the exact tuning because they can vary it. In practice its worse....because they can vary the tuning while playing. 

Flutes are the worst.

[tauzero]

3 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Bye the bye, I tuned a bass yesterday, brought it to practice and every string was a few cents sharp - with this thread in mind I wondered if my tuners were at odds. But the instrument was cold. Once it had warmed up all the strings were flat by a few cents... I obviously have a temeperature sensitive bass!

My beloved Sei fretless is very temperature sensitive - not just the strings, the neck moves. I carry a set of allen keys and a capo with me and adjust the truss rod when necessary (so easy on a headless, such a chore when you have a headstock).

The initial attack on a string will be slightly sharp due to the greater deflection causing a higher tension in the string, but you need to ignore the brief flash into the red, the sustain period of the note is where you need to tune.

[Stub Mandrel]

11 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

I have a theory that at a particular temperature if its in tune, then going cold then warm, it will go out of tune but should return to being in tune. The theory being based on the expansion/contraction of wood, metal, whatever. 

I think that's what happened to me. I suspect the strings cooled faster and 'shrank' a little making them taughter and raising the pitch.

[casapete]

All of my band's guitars seem to move the same amount slightly when brought into a gig from the van. usually all slightly sharp but all in tune with each other! My P.Bass Lyte is pretty stable, and although I tweak the tuning a few times during a gig, I'm sure it's my head that says it needs doing as only very rarely can I tell it has dropped much. 

9 hours ago, tauzero said:

My beloved Sei fretless is very temperature sensitive - not just the strings, the neck moves. I carry a set of allen keys and a capo with me and adjust the truss rod when necessary (so easy on a headless, such a chore when you have a headstock).

Must admit I couldn't be doing with adjusting the truss rod so regularly - guess you must love that bass! Although not the most robust neck, mine has never needed adjusting in years. I always use the same brand/gauge strings and never ever leave it in a vehicle overnight / always taking it inside everywhere so guess it doesn't get too many extremes of temperature. At home it's stored in a room without large changes of temperature too, so must help keeping it stable.

[arthurhenry]

I struggle to get the drummer to use one.

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, casapete said:

Must admit I couldn't be doing with adjusting the truss rod so regularly - guess you must love that bass! Although not the most robust neck, mine has never needed adjusting in years. I always use the same brand/gauge strings and never ever leave it in a vehicle overnight / always taking it inside everywhere so guess it doesn't get too many extremes of temperature. At home it's stored in a room without large changes of temperature too, so must help keeping it stable.

It doesn't need it every gig, perhaps every five or ten, and takes me about 30 seconds to do. I don't leave it in vehicles but venues and rehearsal rooms are not infrequently at extremes of temperature.

[skankdelvar]

On 09/05/2019 at 22:27, josie said:

Advice I picked up on BC recently - sorry I can't remember who from - is to tune on the 12th fret rather than the open string. My 12th fret readings are consistently higher than the open string readings (on all my basses - with a Polytune clip-on). Not by much, but by more than some mentioned above. 

For the moment, just tune to your 12th fret harmonics rather than a fretted note at the 12th. That way, your open strings should be in tune which is the most important thing at this stage.

It sounds as if your intonation is slightly sharp. No biggie. If you're otherwise generally happy with how the bass is sounding then just leave it alone. If you're not happy, wait till it needs a re-string then take it to a tech or post here for advice. 

On 09/05/2019 at 22:27, josie said:

Again though probably best if the guitard(s) do the same? 

If your guitards are tuning their instruments by fretting at the 12th then they'd be best advised not to do so. Open strings are fine, 12th fret harmonics are fine.

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by skankdelvar

[Woodinblack]

On 09/05/2019 at 22:27, josie said:

My 12th fret readings are consistently higher than the open string readings 

I would hope they would be around an octave higher!