To Five or not to Five?

[molan]

Having moved to a slightly higher level of proficiency on 4 string in the past year I recently arranged a long(ish) term swap with one of my better 4's for a 5 of a similar value.

The 5 in question is an MTD 535 so is of great quality and I really like the core sound it has.

I haven't really had much chance to play it 'properly' but have noticed I'm struggling a little with the spacing of the 35" neck, nothing major just finger memory not quite stretching and fretting slightly off.

I'm also tending to use the B purely as a resting place for my thumb a lot of the time.

To be honest I think I can get over the spacing issue with a bit more practice and probably need to push my thinking more to start using the B. However, the biggest issue for me is that if I decide to really go for a 5 string approach I'd probably want to have majority of basses with 5 strings rather than 4's.

Obviously this might be fun as I can get on the trading floor again Conversely I actually quite like my current 'stable' of 4's so selling some would be a bit of a wrench!

So the big question is - should I take the plunge and take on what will be a fair bit of extra work to get my hands & head around the whole 5 string concept or should I just stick to my 4's and work on improving my technique with these?

Any thoughts gratefully received!

PS - Josh, you're not allowed to comment

[Dubs]

If you can’t do it with 4 then you’re not trying hard enough

[BassBod]

Give it a few weeks, get more comfortable and see which you play more. After about ten years, I'm pretty happy with either, but if I'm honest I still "think 4". I play 5 for projects where I can hear a use for the low notes, but otherwise I stay with a 4.

I think its worth putting any decisions off for a year or two......

[yorick]

How about converting one of your 4s to BEAD?

[Born 2B Mild]

Firstly, IMHO there's a tool for each occasion, and numbers of strings shouldn't be an issue, it's just you use what's needed for the thing you are doing.

I've played [i]only[/i] 4's until this year (and that's for 35 years) but I dabbled in to six-strings on a low-cost used one, then went for the Spector Euro 6LX that blew me away. I brought it along to a gig and tried it out at the sound check, and then carried on using it as my main bass for several gigs. What surprised me most was how incredibly useful the lower B was for doing 5ths. Then (and the story is too long for this post) I changed it for a Euro 5LX. Going from six to five just seemed to make it so much simpler!

So, I now only use fives, because I actually miss the low B whenever I try a four string bass. But I'm anxious not to make an issue of it, as some folks seem to think there's a Them & Us situation. I just don't know why it took me so long to discover the ease & benefits of five strings!

But there's no right or wrong on string numbers; getting the groove is all!

[phil_the_bassist]

I love 5's, and I find it difficult to play a 4 nowadays...

[OutToPlayJazz]

Hi Barrie,

I always found 5-stringers a bit of a nonsense for a long time. Slower and harder going than a 4 and not quite as useful as a 6. In most cases, the more strings you have & the wider the neck is, the more you have to accept that you're not going to be able to play as fast & flash! That was until I found my Status bolt-on 5. The neck profile is kept almost the same as the 4 string, but just made wider. Much easier to play fast. So I guess you need to find the 5-string that feels right in the hands & doesn't work against you too much, perhaps more like your 4's.

As for the 35" scale, this is where the double bass fingering comes in. You have to be economical with the left hand (ie., using the span of the hand to cover one tone or three frets, fingering 1-2-4 below the 7th fret) & make sure that you keep the thumb behind the neck & opposite the middle finger. The latter gives the hand more chance to expand to the correct shape. If you try all this, you'll find there's almost no difference in feel between the 34 & 35 scales.

[flychris]

Sure, you'de have to test to go for 5...
It also depends on what music you play...

I mainly praticed the 5 a lot in a previous band (nearly TOTO cover... even if I'm not a fan...)
and then now, I play mainly rock and 4 is all I need...

(And I can help you by taking your Zon VB at home... )

[jakenewmanbass]

Just feel I should point out that a five is a four..... with another string.....
You can use it if needed and not if not.
Is that too too simple?

My five will do for any situation but some producers will not see past the badge so I always have a jazz in reserve. and it's rather nice.

[Josh]

[quote name='molan' post='354532' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:18 PM']PS - Josh, you're not allowed to comment [/quote]

Pffft try and stop me

You know that I've got 2 4's and a 6, and all 3 varying in scale/width/weight etc...

Yet I can seemingly switch between all 3 in one sitting and be comfortable after a few minutes, as you've seen for yourself. Basically I forced myself to get use to them and luckily I have, as mentioned, the best approach is to not feel the need to have to constantly add the low B into your playing, that will easily halt any progress on a 5/6/7 string. You bring it in gradually, using the B as a more flexible anchor is natural, but you do have spend some time noticing how your right hand is fairing.

I noticed that you do tend to keep your right hand anchored when you play, which is perfectly fine but I'd hazzard a guess and say thats probally what is causing both your hands to get confused and thus trip over yourself.

A bit OT, but I'm really not missing that MTD, if you did decide to give it back I'll probally try and hunt someone down with a USA Spector 4/5 string, though I was hoping to see your Roscoe again .

Edited December 14, 2008 by Josh

[6stringbassist]

Don't use the B as an anchor, that's not really good technique, as it means having to move off that anchor to play the be and E.
An ergonomically better way is to sort of float, using your thumb as a mute, move your hand down the strings to play the higher strings.
It will take a bit of getting used to, but will be much better in the long run, and if you're only just starting out on a 5, then now's the time to adapt.

I find a 5 or a 6 easier to play, I don't have to move around so much up and down the neck, I can play low Eb, F etc in the same position as playing high F, G etc on my C string, or high D and E etc on the G string on a 5 string.

[EssentialTension]

I think you just have to find what works for you. I like 4 strings but I have one bass tuned BEAD for whenever necessary. I'm not the kind of player whose likely to need a high G and a low B at the same time. Anyway let's face it, exactly how many extra notes are there on a 5-string? Not many. No offence meant to my ERB brothers.

But if you want to convert to 5, you will need to stick at it.

[Josh]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='354655' date='Dec 14 2008, 10:53 PM']Don't use the B as an anchor, that's not really good technique, as it means having to move off that anchor to play the be and E.
An ergonomically better way is to sort of float, using your thumb as a mute, move your hand down the strings to play the higher strings.
It will take a bit of getting used to, but will be much better in the long run, and if you're only just starting out on a 5, then now's the time to adapt.

I find a 5 or a 6 easier to play, I don't have to move around so much up and down the neck, I can play low Eb, F etc in the same position as playing high F, G etc on my C string, or high D and E etc on the G string on a 5 string.[/quote]

As I said it's natural to want to use it as an anchor but eventually you learn to float, but if your so use to constantly anchoring it's hard to get use to floating. I've seen it from various guys I teach, you can't force them to change from what their use to, and Barrie is so use to anchoring whereas I'm always floating.

Hmmm, Barrie, maybe 5's and 6's just aren't for you, if your happy with yours 4's then really you shouldn't ever worry about needing a 5 or 6, just have one tuned a full step down or alternatively, all of them .

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Josh' post='354644' date='Dec 14 2008, 10:39 PM']Yet I can seemingly switch between all 3 in one sitting and be comfortable after a few minutes, as you've seen for yourself. Basically I forced myself to get use to them and luckily I have, as mentioned, the best approach is to not feel the need to have to constantly add the low B into your playing, that will easily halt any progress on a 5/6/7 string. You bring it in gradually, using the B as a more flexible anchor is natural, but you do have spend some time noticing how your right hand is fairing.[/quote]
I can't add any more to this myself. I've more or less eschewed fives, I don't see much point in playing one if I can get used to a 6 (which I have, after forcing myself to play it exclusively). I've found the additional freedom of that extra string (or strings in the case of a 6) is very liberating.

I still play fours but only for traditional or classic flavourings.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='molan' post='354532' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:18 PM']I haven't really had much chance to play it 'properly'...[/quote]

You'll find the answer once you've spent more time with it. I solely played fours for over ten years and have owned my five for less than ten months yet I feel totally at home on it and much prefer it to my old four. But I'm me and you're you.

I doubt the change in scale length is affecting you, much more likely the change in neck width. 35" vs 34" is less than a 3% increase.

Alex

[chris_b]

I don't play solos but I do play a lot down the other end so a 5 string bass was a logical move for me. After several years when I started to analyse what I was doing I discovered that I was still only playing a 4 string, just with some extra features, like a fretted low E and the occasional low D. I didn't get on with playing both so I retired the Precision and haven't looked back. I feel "cramped" on a 4 string these days.

[dave_bass5]

Im still struggling with my new-ish P5 but then im coming from a 4 string jazz neck as i couldn't get on with a normal 4 string P neck. For me its the string spacing and neck width. Nothing a lot of practice wont fix though.
I do find that while i mostly play it like a 4 string still i find i do wonder on to the B sting every now and again, and for any songs ive learnt since i got it i tend to play more on the B string.

It does feel comfortable and i do prefer 5 strings but as ive learnt so many songs on a 4 im not to bothered about changing how i play them but can see the advantage of the extra string (and not just for hitting that low D at the end of a song ;-).

Keep at it, it gets easier.

Edited December 15, 2008 by dave_bass5

[bumnote]

I would agree with all the people who said its what works for you.

I bought a mm5 years ago and used it as my primary bass for some years, and had no real problem after I got settled with it.
My problem started when I wanted to swap between a 4 and a five, and it took me ages to get comfortable with going back to the five. OK when I concentrated, but made loads of silly mistakes when I 'relaxed' .

I swapped to a lakie 55-02 with a 35 in scale and had no real problem the the extra scale length, and I preferred the neck, but I still was uncomfortable with the change overs.

In the end I decided I could get what I wanted from a four, I find a four string neck is more comfortable, and generally a bit lighter, so I sold the five and have only 4s.

I kniow some people who are happy with both, and others like me who prefer one or the other

[dave_bass5]

For me the only reason i went to 5 string was both my bands do pretty much the same songs but in different keys. Saves having to play them differently.
Otherwise 4 would be my first choice.

[Rich]

I play fives pretty much exclusively these days. I haven't gigged a four in about 5 years now. But I still have fours and I still like playing them. There's no law that says you can't have both and it's pretty easy to change between them once you get used to the five.

[alexclaber]

I ignored the B string for quite a while after I got my bass, I just worked on getting comfortable with the other four strings with my band's current repertoire and then gradually worked that low B in. I think anyone switching from four to five would be well served by putting on more balanced gauge strings - most low B's are much lower in tension than the other four strings. I also use a hybrid shifting thumb technique where I rest on the pickups, or any one of the four lower strings depending on what I'm playing. The word 'anchor' suggests far too much tension in the plucking hand.

Alex

[guyl]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='354592' date='Dec 14 2008, 09:19 PM']Just feel I should point out that a five is a four..... with another string.....
You can use it if needed and not if not.
Is that too too simple?[/quote]

Jake sums it up nicely here. No harm in having an extra string for resting your thumb, firing arrows, flossing your teeth or whatever you like! You can play it occasionally too, but no-one will force you to.

I wouldn't travel without a 5-er (or even 6), because I love the extra versatility available ....... and it's really handy for resting your thumb on.

[thepurpleblob]

I find that I'm a lot more fussy about 5s than 4s. I can pick up and play any old four string (more or less), but most fives feel awfull. I'm playing a G&L Tribute L2500 at the moment which is great and suits the band I'm playing in. My 4 string StingRay is gathering a bit of dust at the moment but I'll probably be back to it if/when circumstances change. I wouldn't want to be stuck on one option. The anchoring/muting thing needs a bit of discipline to keep moving your thumb about, but I've learned harder techniques than that.

[WalMan]

I only got my first 5'er just over a year ago having played 4 (and just the one at that) for 20+ years prior to that.

I found it a bit of a struggle at first, but that was more to do with the fact that I had D-Tuner on the Wal and so had learnt songs where I was flipping the tuner down & up and therefore had finger memory for the detuned bits that totally threw me on the 5.

As a result the 4 has been semi retired, from gigging at least, but then I was lucky to find the L2500 that is brilliant for the stuff my lot do.

I don't use the B a huge amount, but it is nice to have that option available, particularly since the keyboard player left and stopped encroaching on my bit of the spectrum

[Urban Bassman]

[quote name='molan' post='354532' date='Dec 14 2008, 08:18 PM']Having moved to a slightly higher level of proficiency on 4 string in the past year I recently arranged a long(ish) term swap with one of my better 4's for a 5 of a similar value.

The 5 in question is an MTD 535 so is of great quality and I really like the core sound it has.

I haven't really had much chance to play it 'properly' but have noticed I'm struggling a little with the spacing of the 35" neck, nothing major just finger memory not quite stretching and fretting slightly off.

I'm also tending to use the B purely as a resting place for my thumb a lot of the time.

To be honest I think I can get over the spacing issue with a bit more practice and probably need to push my thinking more to start using the B. However, the biggest issue for me is that if I decide to really go for a 5 string approach I'd probably want to have majority of basses with 5 strings rather than 4's.

Obviously this might be fun as I can get on the trading floor again Conversely I actually quite like my current 'stable' of 4's so selling some would be a bit of a wrench!

So the big question is - should I take the plunge and take on what will be a fair bit of extra work to get my hands & head around the whole 5 string concept or should I just stick to my 4's and work on improving my technique with these?

Any thoughts gratefully received!

PS - Josh, you're not allowed to comment [/quote]

I use both 4 and 5 basses with my band. Several of the songs we do are in Dropped D tuning and, yes, I could easily drop the E to D on my 4 but I find that I'm prone to forget that I'm in Low D and and all my fingering and positioning goes out the window if I'm not very careful. So having a low D, C and B where they logically should be works just fine for me.

I think being able to play a 5, even reasonably well, gives you more options, whether that doing your own material or covering other bands. Also not all 5-ers have the 35" scale, my Alembic is 34" and my previous 5-ers were 34" (Status Series 2 and MM SR5 f/less). So if you feel that the 35" is not right for you then look at basses with the 34" scale.

Hope that helps...